Is it sinful to have a Homosexual Orientation?

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Anguspure

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Anguspure,

It’s likely they hit on you for one of these reasons:

You tripped their gaydar. Meaning, you’re in the closet or curious.
They like the prospect of flipping someone straight.
The opportunity presented itself.

In most cases, its something they sensed in the other person which warrants the attention.

~Bella
Very flattering that someone found me attractive.
But once it becomes clear that a person is heterosexual, why try and change them?
 
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bèlla

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Very flattering that someone found me attractive.
But once it becomes clear that a person is heterosexual, why try and change them?

They weren’t convinced or you seemed susceptible. Keep in mind, there are a lot of ‘heterosexual’ men with same-sex attractions in straight relationships. You have to know how to get the truth. Most won’t admit it to others or themselves.

~Bella
 
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Anguspure

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They weren’t convinced or you seemed susceptible. Keep in mind, there are a lot of ‘heterosexual’ men with same-sex attractions in straight relationships. You have to know how to get the truth. Most won’t admit it to others or themselves.

~Bella
I might agree except that one of them had been "succesful" with a number of young men (one of whom I new and was who was badly damaged by the encounter) and wanted me next. His was a deliberate attempt at conversion.
The first one was not successful with myself or my friend but managed to score with another young boy in our town.
Clearly these guys did not beleive in static sexuality and actively practiced the grooming and seduction necessary to change a persons mind.
Further to this, one of the guys I knew openly admitted the origin of his homosexuality as a practice, being from a highly disfunctional upbringing and that he had been awoken sexually as a young man through gay sex.
He told me that he had never met a homosexual man who didn't have a similar story.
 
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Is it wrong to have a Homosexual orientation? Does a person choose to have a Homosexual orientation or not ? Should someone with a Homosexual orientation try to change their orientation and make themselves into a Heterosexual ? Is it sinful to find men attractive?

Yes, homosexuality is sinful, much in the same way that heterosexuality is sinful.
God's definition of marriage remains a monogamous, respectful and loving relationship between a man and a woman which lasts until death. Any sexual activity outside of that—lust, extramarital sex, what have you—is sinful. In that sense, a homosexual person, a bisexual person, and a heterosexual person are not that different from each other. Each of them may be tempted to sexual sin. The only difference is who they are tempted to sin with. Lusting after the opposite sex is just as wrong as lusting after the same sex.

I don't think it's something chosen anymore than heterosexuality is chosen, and I think trying to understand where sexual orientation comes from in a sense beyond living in a fallen world is a complete waste of time. People are free to disagree with me on that, of course, but I don't find that it's very helpful.
(And for what it's worth, speaking on someone who struggles with same-sex attractions... I didn't choose this. Neither do the other Christians I know who have dealt with this. But for whatever reason, God has seen fit to use our long-term struggles to draw us closer to him.)

I'm not about to say that, upon becoming a Christian, someone will no longer struggle with their sexuality, regardless of their orientation. Lots of Christians continue to struggle with same-sex attractions in the long-term, and choose to abstain from homosexual relationships, activities, and so on as a matter of staying faithful to God. It's not an easy road, but lots of people find joy and peace along the way.
I'm also not about to say that God will not see fit to change someone's desires entirely. That said, I've found such cases are overhyped and extremely rare. (Also, the theological reasoning behind it would require a belief that heterosexual lust is somehow less severe than homosexual lust, which I don't see as rational—even working from a belief that some sins drive you further from God, whether you're an inch away from Him or a mile a way from Him, you're still separated from Him.)
Regardless, I'm not about to argue with someone who claims to be "ex-gay" that it's impossible for them to have experienced orientation change. Maybe that's just how God saw fit to use that person for His glory.
 
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tdidymas

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Is it wrong to have a Homosexual orientation? Does a person choose to have a Homosexual orientation or not ? Should someone with a Homosexual orientation try to change their orientation and make themselves into a Heterosexual ? Is it sinful to find men attractive?

It is clearly sinful to yield to sinful temptations. The Bible is very clear about those who practice sin, including any kind of sexual immorality, that such people are on the path to (spiritual) death.

In 1 Peter we find that sinful desires exist in the Christian, as well as in Gal. 5. So then, while we live in the world, we will have sinful desires (or evil desires) which God calls us to "put to death" the deeds which those evil desires tempt us toward (Rom. 8:13). This requires living by faith, that is, the faith that Christ is our deliverer from sin, and that He will be with us to help (by the Spirit). This is the only way we can overcome our sinful habits, by abiding in Jesus. "No temptation has overtaken you, but such as common to man; and He will with the temptation, provide the way of escape, so that you might bear it." That way of escape is to seek the power of God working in your life.

We have a sinful nature that has been perverted to take pleasure in those sinful desires, but it doesn't give us any excuse to do those things. Desires that are out of God's order are sinful, and God calls us to repentance. Jesus is a healer and deliverer: "He bore sin in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness, for by His wounds we are healed."

So then, a homosexual orientation is no different than any sinful addiction in its function. Some people have addictive desires for adultery, some for stealing, etc. The hope that we live by is that by trusting in Christ and walking with Him, repenting constantly of our sinful temptations, that the desires will diminish and our spirit strengthened to resist them. As we spiritually mature, the temptations become like bothersome gnats as opposed to stampeding elephants.
TD:)
 
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Silverback

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Is it wrong to have a Homosexual orientation? Does a person choose to have a Homosexual orientation or not ? Should someone with a Homosexual orientation try to change their orientation and make themselves into a Heterosexual ? Is it sinful to find men attractive?

I make no judgements about you.

Homosexual lust, is no different than heterosexual lust, no more, no less sinful.

Heterosexuals are to refrain from sexual activity outside of Marriage

Marriage is a lifelong bond between one man, and one Woman.

Since I cannot endorse homosexual marriage, the homosexual is to refrain from sexual activity as long as he is attracted to the same sex, and he has to fight those urges like non married heterosexuals do.

As for trying to change your Orientation, some people have succeeded, others (most) are driven to dispair, and if not done correctly it has destroyed lives. That however will have to be your decision.

I don't envy your situation, when I was a young man I was not successful at refraining from heterosexual behavior, and have not been completely successful since marriage, and even today at 56 I still a struggle with lust...I'm sure I will until the end.
 
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Emmylouwho

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Is it wrong to have a Homosexual orientation? Does a person choose to have a Homosexual orientation or not ? Should someone with a Homosexual orientation try to change their orientation and make themselves into a Heterosexual ? Is it sinful to find men attractive?
No, no, and no.
 
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Emmylouwho

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I am certainly no expert on these issues but perhaps I do have an insight on this one point. Homosexuality affects perhaps 3% of the population. This means that homosexuals seeking another heterosexual for a relationship have the odds stacked against them. They are searching. Just as the rest of us do ---- or have done.
Can you give a source for that 3%? I think that’s a rather lowball estimate, no pun intended.
 
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Silverback

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Can you give a source for that 3%? I think that’s a rather lowball estimate, no pun intended.

I think 5-10% is probably more accurate. But at some point Homosexuality has to be defined. Is a one time encounter at 16 make you gay? I don't think so. if someone says they are gay, then enters a long term same sex relationship, but after a while realizes it's not for them and returns to heterosexual relationships, are they still considered gay? bisexual? or, someone who experimented and realized it's not for them? and who sets the criteria, who applies the label. I know people in both those situations, who absolutely not consider themselves gay, but the they have both been labeled...
 
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Silverback

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Can you give a source for that 3%? I think that’s a rather lowball estimate, no pun intended.

I think 5-10% is probably more accurate. But at some point Homosexuality has to be defined. Is a one time encounter at 16 make you gay? I don't think so. if someone says they are gay, then enters a long term same sex relationship, but after a while realizes it's not for them and returns to heterosexual relationships, are they still considered gay? bisexual? or, someone who experimented and realized it's not for them? and who sets the criteria, who applies the label. I know people in both those situations, who absolutely not consider themselves gay, but the they have both been labeled...
 
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Emmylouwho

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I think 5-10% is probably more accurate. But at some point Homosexuality has to be defined. Is a one time encounter at 16 make you gay? I don't think so. if someone says they are gay, then enters a long term same sex relationship, but after a while realizes it's not for them and returns to heterosexual relationships, are they still considered gay? bisexual? or, someone who experimented and realized it's not for them? and who sets the criteria, who applies the label. I know people in both those situations, who absolutely not consider themselves gay, but the they have both been labeled...
How many same-sex encounters does one have to have before one is considered gay? Bisexual? No-curious? Or does it really matter at all?
 
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Emmylouwho

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I think 5-10% is probably more accurate. But at some point Homosexuality has to be defined. Is a one time encounter at 16 make you gay? I don't think so. if someone says they are gay, then enters a long term same sex relationship, but after a while realizes it's not for them and returns to heterosexual relationships, are they still considered gay? bisexual? or, someone who experimented and realized it's not for them? and who sets the criteria, who applies the label. I know people in both those situations, who absolutely not consider themselves gay, but the they have both been labeled...
Did you have a one-time encounter as a teen?
 
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HatedByAll

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Is it wrong to have a Homosexual orientation?
Yes. Everything about homosexuality is wrong. Men were not meant to feel that way. But, I since that what you are really asking is, "Is it a sin to have a homosexual orientation?" This is a harder question to answer. Homosexual orientations as well as orientations to all sins are due the fall of man. Because Adam sinned, all mankind has a propensity to sin. So this orientation is part of the curse on Mankind because of man's original sin. In my opinion, homosexuality is a sin that has developed over multiple generations. Numbers 14:18 mentions God visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation. (KJV) Even though there is no mention specifically that this is referring to homosexuality, in most cases it appears that the fathers and grandfathers of homosexuals have certain types of personalities and react to their young sons in such a way that the young boys develop these feeling at least in part due to the fact that they did not feel that they were loved enough by their fathers. I am not going to try to support this theory. I have little interest in physiology, but brought this up to help you to see that sin is involved in the development of a homosexual orientation.

Now having said all that, having a homosexual orientation is no more sinful that having temptations to be an alcoholic, or even something as common as having problems with overeating. Basically if one has that orientation all it means is this will probably be the sin they have to fight against the most.

Does a person choose to have a Homosexual orientation or not ?
Any gay person, if they are honest, will tell you they would love to a sexual orientation toward women the way they do toward men. No they don't initially choose to start to have those feelings.

Should someone with a Homosexual orientation try to change their orientation and make themselves into a Heterosexual ?
No. The first step is to be reborn. To accept the Gospel totally. To put their whole faith in Jesus Christ. To keep the post short I will not spell that out, but what a person with a homosexual orientation must do is the same thing that everyone else must do. They have to accept they they are sinners and they must trust in the righteousness of Christ. They need to realize that works (in this case making themselves heterosexual) will not be enough. They need to increase their faith in Christ until their faith is strong enough that they want to do the will of the Father and thus the sexual desires become weaker and weaker to the point that they get to the point where this temptation is just not a big problem anymore.

Is it sinful to find men attractive?
If it was everyone would be guilty. We all are attracted to "attractive" looking things. Even homosexual men at times are attracted to women. We are attracted to people for many reasons and not all of those reasons have anything to do with sex. That is one reason we people who struggle with same sex attractions have so much of a problem with finding men attractive. There is a natural and healthy attraction to youth that even healthy people have that is probably God given to help parents to bond with their children. Men see a good looking young man and have an attraction to him. Heterosexual men don't thing a thing about it, it just makes them more open to being friends with the other man. A man who has struggled with homosexuality has the exact same reaction, but feels guilty. What's the guy supposed to do. . .`

I could say much, much more on this subject. But, I hate long posts myself, so I will end it here.
 
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Emmylouwho

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Yes. Everything about homosexuality is wrong. Men were not meant to feel that way. But, I since that what you are really asking is, "Is it a sin to have a homosexual orientation?" This is a harder question to answer. Homosexual orientations as well as orientations to all sins are due the fall of man. Because Adam sinned, all mankind has a propensity to sin. So this orientation is part of the curse on Mankind because of man's original sin. In my opinion, homosexuality is a sin that has developed over multiple generations. Numbers 14:18 mentions God visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation. (KJV) Even though there is no mention specifically that this is referring to homosexuality, in most cases it appears that the fathers and grandfathers of homosexuals have certain types of personalities and react to their young sons in such a way that the young boys develop these feeling at least in part due to the fact that they did not feel that they were loved enough by their fathers. I am not going to try to support this theory. I have little interest in physiology, but brought this up to help you to see that sin is involved in the development of a homosexual orientation.

Now having said all that, having a homosexual orientation is no more sinful that having temptations to be an alcoholic, or even something as common as having problems with overeating. Basically if one has that orientation all it means is this will probably be the sin they have to fight against the most.

Any gay person, if they are honest, will tell you they would love to a sexual orientation toward women the way they do toward men. No they don't initially choose to start to have those feelings.

No. The first step is to be reborn. To accept the Gospel totally. To put their whole faith in Jesus Christ. To keep the post short I will not spell that out, but what a person with a homosexual orientation must do is the same thing that everyone else must do. They have to accept they they are sinners and they must trust in the righteousness of Christ. They need to realize that works (in this case making themselves heterosexual) will not be enough. They need to increase their faith in Christ until their faith is strong enough that they want to do the will of the Father and thus the sexual desires become weaker and weaker to the point that they get to the point where this temptation is just not a big problem anymore.

If it was everyone would be guilty. We all are attracted to "attractive" looking things. Even homosexual men at times are attracted to women. We are attracted to people for many reasons and not all of those reasons have anything to do with sex. That is one reason we people who struggle with same sex attractions have so much of a problem with finding men attractive. There is a natural and healthy attraction to youth that even healthy people have that is probably God given to help parents to bond with their children. Men see a good looking young man and have an attraction to him. Heterosexual men don't thing a thing about it, it just makes them more open to being friends with the other man. A man who has struggled with homosexuality has the exact same reaction, but feels guilty. What's the guy supposed to do. . .`

I could say much, much more on this subject. But, I hate long posts myself, so I will end it here.
How do you know so much about gay men? Are you a gay man?
 
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HatedByAll

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How do you know so much about gay men? Are you a gay man?
Maybe I hid that too well in this text. The only hint is below:
We are attracted to people for many reasons and not all of those reasons have anything to do with sex. That is one reason we people who struggle with same sex attractions have so much of a problem with finding men attractive. There is a natural and healthy attraction to youth that even healthy people have that is probably God given to help parents to bond with their children. Men see a good looking young man and have an attraction to him. Heterosexual men don't think a thing about it, it just makes them more open to being friends with the other man. A man who has struggled with homosexuality has the exact same reaction, but feels guilty.
I have figured out that the best way to describe myself is to admit that I am a Christian whose testimony for the last thirty years is 1 Corinthians 6:11. But no, to directly answer your question, I am not gay.
 
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Emmylouwho

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I have figured out that the best way to describe myself is to admit that I am a Christian whose testimony for the last thirty years is 1 Corinthians 6:11. But no, to directly answer your question, I am not gay.
You haven’t exactly directly answered my question. You referred me to a Bible quote.
 
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HatedByAll

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You haven’t exactly directly answered my question. You referred me to a Bible quote.
You asked a two part question. I did not answer the qualifier part of the question because this forum, "Christian Philosophy & Ethics," is not the place to discuss sexual details. To answer the preliminary part of your question accurately would require my bringing up subject matter that does not belong in this sub forum. The second part of the question, "Are you gay?" was the part that I could answer. The answer to that is "No." I guess I can say on this sub forum that my answer to the first part would have been different thirty years ago. . .
 
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Emmylouwho

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You asked a two part question. I did not answer the qualifier part of the question because this forum, "Christian Philosophy & Ethics," is not the place to discuss sexual details. To answer the preliminary part of your question accurately would require my bringing up subject matter that does not belong in this sub forum. The second part of the question, "Are you gay?" was the part that I could answer. The answer to that is "No." I guess I can say on this sub forum that my answer to the first part would have been different thirty years ago. . .
Sorry. I still don’t see how your Bible quote answered any question I ever asked.
 
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