RAPTURE!! OR LEFT BEHIND????

mmksparbud

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No, they are taken to Armageddon to witness the one sided battle. The one taken is taken up to the clouds, and follow Christ as he descends to Armageddon.

Being left behind means to be rejected by Christ. Here's some of the Greek word's definitions:

"to send away"
"of a husband divorcing his wife"
"to expire"
"to disregard"
"neglect"
"keep no longer"
"to leave on dying"
"leave behind one"
"abandon, leave destitute"

And compare that to the meaning of taken:

"to take with one's self"
"to join to one's self"
"an associate"
"a companion"
"not to reject"

Still want to be "left" by Christ?


It is what Jesus says that matters---"Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
 
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ewq1938

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It is what Jesus says that matters---"Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."


And like I said, those that are taken up to meet Jesus will be taken to Armageddon and will see what the Eagles do to the dead. Jesus did not take the enemy there. Rapture/harpazo even means to be taken. There can be no doubt the one taken/accepted is raptured, the one left/rejected are the unsaved.
 
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mmksparbud

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And like I said, those that are taken up to meet Jesus will be taken to Armageddon and will see what the Eagles do to the dead. Jesus did not take the enemy there. Rapture/harpazo even means to be taken. There can be no doubt the one taken/accepted is raptured, the one left/rejected are the unsaved.


LOL!! Suite yourself---just is not what it says! First you said that they are raptured to heaven, now it's they're raptured to Armageddon---OK---Believe what you want. I'll just go on with what I believe and you can go on with you believe.
 
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iamlamad

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LOL!! Suite yourself---just is not what it says! First you said that they are raptured to heaven, now it's they're raptured to Armageddon---OK---Believe what you want. I'll just go on with what I believe and you can go on with you believe.
The answer is BOTH:
At the rapture those in Christ are "taken" as in caught up and then taken to heaven as per John 14.
On the other hand, at the parable of the tares, those "taken" are thrown into hell and their bodies left for the birds: two "takens" with two different results. Both are true: both will take place in the future.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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ewq1938 said:
No, they are taken to Armageddon to witness the one sided battle. The one taken is taken up to the clouds, and follow Christ as he descends to Armageddon.
It is what Jesus says that matters---"Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
Good verse. I actually have a thread on it for those interested.

"WHERE THE BODY is, there the EAGLES be gathered" Matt 24 Luke 17-- and Revelation


Armageddon, Jerusalem 70AD...over 1 million Jews perished.....birds gathered at Jerusalem for great supper of God
[Revelation 19:17-18]

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:28 Where the eagles/vultures, there the corpse/carcass/body be


4430. ptoma a ruin, i.e. (specially), lifeless body (corpse, carrion):--dead body, carcase, corpse.

Matthew 24:28
for wherever the corpse<4430> may be, there shall the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together<4863>.


4983 soma from 4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively:--bodily, body, slave

Luke 17:37
And they answering say to him, 'Where, sir?' and He saith to them, 'Where the body<4983> is, there will the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together<4863>.'[Revelation 18:13 Revelation 19:17-18]
===============================

Revelation 19
17 And I saw one Messenger standing in the sun, and He cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered!<4863> into the Supper of the Great God.
18 That ye may be eating fleshes of kings......


Revelation 18:13
“and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies<4983> and souls of men.
==================================

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah ! ........................

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places, and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made.

 
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iamlamad

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Good verse. I actually have a thread on it for those interested.

"WHERE THE BODY is, there the EAGLES be gathered" Matt 24 Luke 17-- and Revelation


Armageddon, Jerusalem 70AD...over 1 million Jews perished.....birds gathered at Jerusalem for great supper of God
[Revelation 19:17-18]

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:28 Where the eagles/vultures, there the corpse/carcass/body be


4430. ptoma a ruin, i.e. (specially), lifeless body (corpse, carrion):--dead body, carcase, corpse.

Matthew 24:28
for wherever the corpse<4430> may be, there shall the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together<4863>.


4983 soma from 4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively:--bodily, body, slave

Luke 17:37
And they answering say to him, 'Where, sir?' and He saith to them, 'Where the body<4983> is, there will the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together<4863>.'[Revelation 18:13 Revelation 19:17-18]
===============================

Revelation 19
17 And I saw one Messenger standing in the sun, and He cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered!<4863> into the Supper of the Great God.
18 That ye may be eating fleshes of kings......


Revelation 18:13
“and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies<4983> and souls of men.
==================================

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah ! ........................

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places, and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made.

This is a good history report. However, it has very little to do with the FUTURE events of Revelation: the trumpet and bowl judgments.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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This is a good history report. However, it has very little to do with the FUTURE events of Revelation: the trumpet and bowl judgments.
I also have a thread on the 7th bowl concerning Jerusalem 70ad....the bowls are poured out after the trumpets/Tribulation of the Jewish Wars culminating in 70AD..........

Reve 16:17 the seventh Messenger pours out His bowl/vial into the AIR....

Luke 21:9
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tumults<181>, no may be being frightened<4422>, for is binding these to be becoming,
but not immediately the End<5056>

Revelation 16:17
and the seventh Messenger pours out His bowl/vial into the air<109>
and came out great Voice from the Sanctuary of the heaven from the Throne saying "it has become!"<1096> [Revelation 21:6]

Revelation 18:
18 And they cried, observing the smoke of Her burning, saying, "What is like to the great City?"
19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried, lamenting, weeping and mourning, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships in the sea, out of Her preciousness,
for to one hour was She was desolated.

sidebar-preterism.jpg

============================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted


The vial of divine wrath, which had been so long pouring out upon this devoted city was now emptying, and JERUSALEM, once "a praise in all the earth," and the subject of a thousand prophecies, deprived of' the staff of life, wrapt in flames, and bleeding on every side sunk into utter ruin and desolation.

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?
 
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ebedmelech

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The Olivet Discourse has nothing to do with AD70, which is why nothing is said about that.

The one taken are those who are raptured. The timeframe is the day Christ returns and he will take some people up to be with him and the others are left/rejected because they aren't faithful to Christ.
Start with Matthew 24:1-2
Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him.
2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”


Please tell me what was left of the temple after 70AD...
 
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ebedmelech

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They are the Jewish people.
But note well: only those whose names are Written in the Book of Life will be saved. The rest? Xed out!
How do people get their names Written in the Book of Life? Malachi 3:16-18, Revelation 3:5
Take the time to read Matthew 27:50-54 Keras.
 
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ewq1938

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Start with Matthew 24:1-2
Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him.
2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”


Please tell me what was left of the temple after 70AD...

That isn't part of the olivet discourse.
 
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ebedmelech

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That isn't part of the olivet discourse.
It most certainly is. It's called "The Olivet Discourse" because of where it was given to Peter, James, John, and Andrew.

Matthew 24:3 tells us as much:
3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

We know this from Mark 13:1-6 also:
As He was going out of the temple, one of His disciples *said to Him, “Teacher, behold what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!”
2 And Jesus said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left upon another which will not be torn down.”
3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew were questioning Him privately,
4 “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are going to be fulfilled?”
5 And Jesus began to say to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 6 Many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He!’ and will mislead many.

Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are "the Olivet Discourse. Revelation is John's expanded version of it, given by the Lord's angel, given to John.
 
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ewq1938

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It most certainly is. It's called "The Olivet Discourse" because of where it was given to Peter, James, John, and Andrew.

Obviously anything Christ said before being on the Mt of Olives isn't part of the OD such as what was said at the temple about the temple.
 
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ebedmelech

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Obviously anything Christ said before being on the Mt of Olives isn't part of the OD such as what was said at the temple about the temple.
You're trying to use that to escape the facts??? Do some research on the "Olivet Discourse" and see.
 
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You're trying to use that to escape the facts??? Do some research on the "Olivet Discourse" and see.

Do some research on the "Olivet Discourse" and see for yourself.
 
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ebedmelech

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ewq1938

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These are for you:
Ligonier Ministries

What is the Olivet Discourse? | CARM.org

The Olivet Discourse – What is it?

Perhaps afterwards you see ALL of Matthew 24 & 25 are the Olivet Discourse, and why it's named as such.


Any part of Matthew 24 that happens at the temple and not on the mount is not part of the OD. We can't simply add in things not said on that mount and make it part of the OD.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

These two verses are not part of the OD.

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

This is when the OD began with Christ sitting on the mount and started speaking. In the OD there is no destruction of Jerusalem nor the temple because that isn't related to what happens in the great tribulation and when Christ returns which is what the OD is about. The same time period the OD discusses is also found in Rev, mainly chp 11 and 13. Again, no mention of the city or temple being destroyed because it isn't going to happen in the GT. Some of the city will be destroyed, but only a 10th and that's from an earthquake near the end of the GT. 90 percent of the city remains standing according to Rev.
 
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ebedmelech

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Any part of Matthew 24 that happens at the temple and not on the mount is not part of the OD. We can't simply add in things not said on that mount and make it part of the OD.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

These two verses are not part of the OD.

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

This is when the OD began with Christ sitting on the mount and started speaking. In the OD there is no destruction of Jerusalem nor the temple because that isn't related to what happens in the great tribulation and when Christ returns which is what the OD is about. The same time period the OD discusses is also found in Rev, mainly chp 11 and 13. Again, no mention of the city or temple being destroyed because it isn't going to happen in the GT. Some of the city will be destroyed, but only a 10th and that's from an earthquake near the end of the GT. 90 percent of the city remains standing according to Rev.
Oh...so our Lord is not continuing on with what He said in verses 1 &2? Do you know how ridiculous that is?

The fact is this occurs as the Lord has left the temple with his disciples. They're asking Him to expound on what he just said, when He said And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”...so I would say what you're doing with the scripture here is quite similar to what the Lord said to the Pharisees and Saducees when He said they "strain at a gnat and swallow a camel".

Really...that's what you're doing if you think what you said above is correct.
 
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ewq1938

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Oh...so our Lord is not continuing on with what He said in verses 1 &2?

No, he doesn't.

I also see you have nothing to say about the fact that the temple and city are not destroyed in the OD nor in the related passages of Rev.
 
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