would you have followed this man

Tanj · Oct 9, 2019

coffee4u said:
No, I was just clearing up that the OP was pointing out David's failings not what he did that was after God's own heart.

I disagree with you, I think the OP was pointing out we should still follow David despite his failings because he was after God's own heart.

Vicky gould · Oct 9, 2019

Tanj said:
I disagree with you, I think the OP was pointing out we should still follow David despite his failings because he was after God's own heart.

please let me understand this you would not have followed David and thereby oppose God's will for David to lead Israel? How then do you ever explain Solomon? Builder of God's temple. I am not saying to follow or not follow my whole point is we are so sure God is on our side and we are doing His will when looking at a David or Solomon it would be so easy to look at their lives and decide what we think is God's will when we could very well be in opposition to His Will. I have yet to go to a church that when they prayed pray for our enemies as well as our country, well half the country. I have heard some churchs that pray for the death of enemies and for harm to come to them. I think of Jonah having to go to Nineveh the Nazi's of their days who was destined to destroy Israel Who fought God every step of the way how would we have handled Jonah knowing he was purposely rebelling against His will. He wants us to walk humbly and the only way to walk humbly is to come to the point Paul did when He finally saw himself to be the chief of sinners. Something Paul realized through Grace not Law. Under Law he saw himself as perfect to the Law.

Tanj · Oct 9, 2019

Vicky gould said:
please let me understand this you would not have followed David and thereby oppose God's will for David to lead Israel?

Correct.

How then do you ever explain Solomon?

What's he got to do with it?

I'm an atheist, responding to a question about whether I would follow someone morally bankrupt just because they were "after God's heart". My answer then as now is no, I would reject both them and the God that said it was OK. Posting Bible stories at me isn't going to change my mind.

Vicky gould · Oct 9, 2019

Tanj said:
Correct.

What's he got to do with it?

I'm an atheist, responding to a question about whether I would follow someone morally bankrupt just because they were "after God's heart". My answer then as now is no, I would reject both them and the God that said it was OK. Posting Bible stories at me isn't going to change my mind.

not Trying to change your mind if I used my head that unbelievers are present I would not have begun this discussion. Please excuse

Tanj · Oct 9, 2019

Vicky gould said:
not Trying to change your mind if I used my head that unbelievers are present I would not have begun this discussion. Please excuse

No problem, but for future reference my (non) religious affiliation is clearly shown beneath my avatar.

coffee4u · Oct 9, 2019

Tanj said:
Correct.

What's he got to do with it?

I'm an atheist, responding to a question about whether I would follow someone morally bankrupt just because they were "after God's heart". My answer then as now is no, I would reject both them and the God that said it was OK. Posting Bible stories at me isn't going to change my mind.

We are aware that you are an atheist, I wasn't telling you to look at it the way a Christian would but simply as literature. Not sure about the person above. The Bible shows that despite David's failings, really bad failings, he learned from his mistakes and became a man after God's own heart, making it a story of hope.

As to the OP I think they are likening David to Trump or some other US political figure, Clinton maybe? Yeah, lol, not the same. I don't see Trump repenting anytime soon although I would love to be wrong.

Tanj · Oct 9, 2019

coffee4u said:
We are aware that you are an atheist

Well, you are, clearly from her response Vicky was not.

As to the OP I think they are likening David to Trump or some other US political figure, Clinton maybe? Yeah, lol, not the same. I don't see Trump repenting anytime soon although I would love to be wrong.

That about sums it up for me too.

Vicky gould · Oct 9, 2019

Tanj said:
No problem, but for future reference my (non) religious affiliation is clearly shown beneath my avatar.

Sorry again did not notice I am a hunt and peck and not used to looking hopefully this will change that.

klutedavid · Oct 9, 2019

Vicky gould said:
He was the head of the government
He decided to have an affair
He got the woman pregnant
He used his office to cover up his crime
Part of that crime was killing his best friend the husband of the woman he had the affair with
He did not repent and kept the woman for life.
The fruit of that illicit affair plagued him until he Absalom hanging on a tree.

Would you have followed this man? He was king David. How many of us who armed with our knowledge of the Law would have rejected David the man after God's own heart. How many of us if he was running for president would have ruled the one God was going to use for His purposes. David was very interesting. When Absalom, the son he had through his affair, was trying to kill him his soldier came and said they knew where Absalom was and should they go kill him. David said no and the reason is even more remarkable, Doing so might have interfered with God's will for David. I ask about this because I find it fascinating to see how the man after God's own heart did things and how we are so quick to know God's will and condemn others. Have we turned discernment into judgment? How do you tell the difference?

That's not all that David did wrong.

charsan · Oct 9, 2019

Vicky gould said:
If I may, ask something else. I can repent of something like committing adultery and murder and keep the one I sinned with? David the man after God's own heart was not allowed to build the temple.

If King David divorced Bathsheba then he would have committed more bad things and maybe the sin of abandonment. One sins, repents and moves on and lives with the consequences which includes in King David having a wife, you don't get divorced because you sin and repent creating more sin. You repent and live your life.

Vicky gould said:
One last question. Were you around when Bill Clinton did far less than David and how did you continue to follow him? If you did not react the same way most Christians from that time reacted I commend you.

I did not follow him, I am an conservative and wold never follow such a liberal.

Vicky gould · Oct 9, 2019

charsan said:
If King David divorced Bathsheba then he would have committed more bad things and maybe the sin of abandonment. One sins, repents and moves on and lives with the consequences which includes in King David having a wife, you don't get divorced because you sin and repent creating more sin. You repent and live your life.

I did not follow him, I am an conservative and wold never follow such a liberal.

Point is how do you know God’s choice that year was not the worst of men was to be elected that year? The Lord told Samuel to go tell Israel what a disaster taking Saul as king was going to be a disaster. But He let them have him.

ananda · Oct 10, 2019

Vicky gould said:
He was the head of the government
He decided to have an affair
He got the woman pregnant
He used his office to cover up his crime
Part of that crime was killing his best friend the husband of the woman he had the affair with
He did not repent and kept the woman for life.
The fruit of that illicit affair plagued him until he Absalom hanging on a tree.

Would you have followed this man? He was king David....

No, not willingly.

charsan · Oct 10, 2019

Vicky gould said:
Point is how do you know God’s choice that year was not the worst of men was to be elected that year? The Lord told Samuel to go tell Israel what a disaster taking Saul as king was going to be a disaster. But He let them have him.

If your talking about our elections in modern times than America was not the chosen nation, ancient Israel was so I am not sure Clinton was necessarily God's choice but ultimately I do not know

ViaCrucis · Oct 17, 2019

Vicky gould said:
He was the head of the government
He decided to have an affair
He got the woman pregnant
He used his office to cover up his crime
Part of that crime was killing his best friend the husband of the woman he had the affair with
He did not repent and kept the woman for life.
The fruit of that illicit affair plagued him until he Absalom hanging on a tree.

Would you have followed this man? He was king David. How many of us who armed with our knowledge of the Law would have rejected David the man after God's own heart. How many of us if he was running for president would have ruled the one God was going to use for His purposes. David was very interesting. When Absalom, the son he had through his affair, was trying to kill him his soldier came and said they knew where Absalom was and should they go kill him. David said no and the reason is even more remarkable, Doing so might have interfered with God's will for David. I ask about this because I find it fascinating to see how the man after God's own heart did things and how we are so quick to know God's will and condemn others. Have we turned discernment into judgment? How do you tell the difference?

Are you trying to compare Donald Trump to King David?

-CryptoLutheran

durangodawood · Oct 23, 2019

The premise of this thread gets very close to advocating we apply no standards of personal character when evaluating potential leaders.

Vicky gould · Oct 23, 2019

durangodawood said:
The premise of this thread gets very close to advocating we apply no standards of personal character when evaluating potential leaders.

sorry the point of the post have we stopped being aliens and pilgrims in this world? Have we taken the path of Abraham or taken the path of Lot. I contend that for the average Christian we are more on the path of Lot ten we are on the path of Abraham. I was trying to show that when we vote we can be at odds with God's Will for who He wants to rule. We are called soldiers and because we are soldiers Scripture says we do not involve ourselves in civilian affairs.

I am sorry you read it that way sometimes I don't write as well as I hope I would. Far from a call to have no standards it is a call to have faith and let the Lord raise up who He wants which He has done just fine for 1,000's of years. The study of Abraham's and Lot's lives shows a pretty good picture of how the present day churches have not just moved into Sodom but have become part of the rulers of Sodom and we see the leaven spread all through Lot's family and the ineffectual evangelizing Lot had in his world. Abraham on the other hand took the route as a pilgrim and alien and not only interceded for others had perfect heavenly communion where Lot's world was always crashing in on him disrupting his worship and fellowship. I hope this clears up what I was getting at and sorry if I wasn't clearer in writing it. I will try to do better. God bless

durangodawood · Oct 23, 2019

Vicky gould said:
sorry the point of the post have we stopped being aliens and pilgrims in this world? Have we taken the path of Abraham or taken the path of Lot. I contend that for the average Christian we are more on the path of Lot ten we are on the path of Abraham. I was trying to show that when we vote we can be at odds with God's Will for who He wants to rule. We are called soldiers and because we are soldiers Scripture says we do not involve ourselves in civilian affairs.

I am sorry you read it that way sometimes I don't write as well as I hope I would. Far from a call to have no standards it is a call to have faith and let the Lord raise up who He wants which He has done just fine for 1,000's of years. The study of Abraham's and Lot's lives shows a pretty good picture of how the present day churches have not just moved into Sodom but have become part of the rulers of Sodom and we see the leaven spread all through Lot's family and the ineffectual evangelizing Lot had in his world. Abraham on the other hand took the route as a pilgrim and alien and not only interceded for others had perfect heavenly communion where Lot's world was always crashing in on him disrupting his worship and fellowship. I hope this clears up what I was getting at and sorry if I wasn't clearer in writing it. I will try to do better. God bless

Thanks for the reply. Clearly there's more going on here than I initially thought.

So let me pose some questions from US history:
Did God raise up Nixon to rule?
Was the Nixon impeachment against the will of God?
Was Nixon's successor, Ford, not God's choice to rule when he took the oath of office?

Vicky gould · Oct 23, 2019

durangodawood said:
Thanks for the reply. Clearly there's more going on here than I initially thought.

So let me pose some questions from US history:
Did God raise up Nixon to rule?
Was the Nixon impeachment against the will of God?
Was Nixon's successor, Ford, not God's choice to rule when he took the oath of office?

Yes, His Will is supreme doesn’t mean I want to be in opposition to it
Yes
Unknown. Was he like the choice of Mathis, I don’t have my Bible with me to look up Acts without loosing what I have written, was not the Lord’s choice. A small overreach by the small band would have looked from the outside to have been harmless but which plagued Paul the rest of his ministry.

My turn

was slavery God’s Will?
Fighting to end it His Will or Man’s
For the Christian slaves should they have stayed or should they have left?
Thanks

durangodawood · Oct 23, 2019

Vicky gould said:
Yes, His Will is supreme doesn’t mean I want to be in opposition to it
Yes
Unknown. Was he like the choice of Mathis, I don’t have my Bible with me to look up Acts without loosing what I have written, was not the Lord’s choice. A small overreach by the small band would have looked from the outside to have been harmless but which plagued Paul the rest of his ministry.

My turn

was slavery God’s Will?
Fighting to end it His Will or Man’s
For the Christian slaves should they have stayed or should they have left?
Thanks

1. I dont know. But if the God the father of Jesus is real, then my sense is No.
2. I'd guess Jesus would say American slavery was evil, so fighting it is good.
3. Of course Christian slaves should have left.

Overall, my sense is that IF the fallible human democratic system of electing leaders represents God's will, then so does the constitutionally prescribed method for removing unfit leaders.

Sounds like youre saying the US Constitution Article 1 Section 2 on impeachment is inherently anti-God....?

Vicky gould · Oct 23, 2019

durangodawood said:
1. I dont know. But if the God the father of Jesus is real, then my sense is No.
2. I'd guess Jesus would say American slavery was evil, so fighting it is good.
3. Of course Christian slaves should have left.

Overall, my sense is that IF the fallible human democratic system of electing leaders represents God's will, then so does the constitutionally prescribed method for removing unfit leaders.

Sounds like youre saying the US Constitution Article 1 Section 2 on impeachment is inherently anti-God....?

I don’t know to a surety that’s why I ask. Three quarters of the world was enslaved and Paul taught good or bad stay in your slavery unless you could legally be released. So that opens the door to ask.

You don’t know so would your following Paul’s teachings to keep your slaves or to keep them. Now this is without the Lord having given anymore than we have to go on then we do right now.

Slaves in Scripture are to serve even bad owners as if you were serving the Lord. Would He expect us to flee the sections dealing with slavery seem to say slaves should stay if no other manner to win freedom comes to legally set them free.

would you have followed this man

Redefined comfortable middle class

Shekinah

Redefined comfortable middle class

Shekinah

Redefined comfortable middle class

Well-Known Member

Redefined comfortable middle class

Shekinah

Well-Known Member

Charismatic Episcopal Church

Shekinah

Early Buddhist

Charismatic Episcopal Church

Confessional Lutheran

Dis Member

Shekinah

Dis Member

Shekinah

Dis Member

Shekinah

Similar threads