The Normalizing Of Bastard Children

Philip_B said:

I am not sure that is not Gnostic, or at least dualism.

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? If you want to define it as gnostic or dualism, but why ?

SkyWriting said:

The Law, brings death to all.

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That's why perversion means death for all those who accept it and live perverted lives.

Same why thievery, idolatry, greed and serving other gods means death also.

All those sins and more, when people accept the sins and keep sinning instead of ever repenting, is the way to destruction.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

? If you want to define it as gnostic or dualism, but why ?

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To return to the comment you made in post 315


This nuanced view suggests that everything/one is black or white simply lacks a correlation to the reality that most of us experience most of the time. In the current climate of the politics of derision, where we exonerate the poor acts those we agree with and deride the good acts of those we oppose, allows us to excuse mere tribalism as political debate. The truth is our heroes (Jesus excepted) have flaws, and our opponents have merits.

People are not all bad, though I admit some of them can be pretty yuk, all of them carry within them something of the image and the likeness of God. Our task should be to see that, to help them see that, and to help them shine as a light to the glory of God the Father.

One of the great messages of the incarnation is that the barrier between the spiritual and the physical is transcended. In the midst of the troubled and turmoiled world, eternity breaks through. We encounter to spiritual through the physical.

When we listen to the music, mere physical vibrations beating on our eardrums we encounter something beyond that physical, and experience joy or sorrow, memories or hope, an emotional reprieve from the present moment. So to as we listen to the Gospel words being read, more physical vibrations beating on the eardrums we may encounter to the living word speaking in our inmost being.

Life is physical, but it is not just physical. The the Holy Sacrament, the physical realities of bread and wine offer the opportunity to encounter the spiritual reality of the the Lord who gives body and blood not as some kind of magic trick, but as an affirmation of the incarnational truth that the word became flesh and tabernacled in our midst and we have seen his glory.

Philip_B said:

To return to the comment you made in post 315

People are usually all bad, and stay all bad. Just by being born.
They usually have no insights at all, and especially no valuable insights.
"Whatever is born of the flesh..... profits NOTHING."
This nuanced view suggests that everything/one is black or white simply lacks a correlation to the reality that most of us experience most of the time.

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Go by what Yahuweh Sovereign Creator Says Clearly in His Word.

Not by any so-called "reality" (experience, feelings, emotions) that most people experience most of the time (which is no standard, has no authority, and stays on and leads to the wide road of destruction) . Remember, the world is doomed, and the flesh is at war with the spirit; the flesh is not helpful, according to all Scripture.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Go by what Yahuweh Sovereign Creator Says Clearly in His Word.

Not by any so-called "reality" (experience, feelings, emotions) that most people experience most of the time (which is no standard, has no authority, and stays on and leads to the wide road of destruction) . Remember, the world is doomed, and the flesh is at war with the spirit; the flesh is not helpful, according to all Scripture.

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Philip_B said:

God so loved the world that he gave his only Son,
so that everyone who believes in him may not perish
but may have eternal life

God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world,
but in order that the world might be saved through him
​

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Good!

Daniel C said:

Some people might complain about the word Bastard being used but I just want to say this is Gods language so it can never be unclean so please respect that. The problem is Christians have been influenced by the heathens of this world and been persuaded to abandon Gods clean sacred language. Here are some verses:
Deuteronomy 23 2
''A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.''
hebrews 12:7-8
''If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.''
So God clearly wants children to enter into the world in a certain manner. Just wandering if people here think having a Bastard child is acceptable or marriage before the child's birth is essential? The world keeps pushing for more and more of Gods will to be eliminated,please bear in mind this ultimately is an issue of how adults and potential parents conduct themselves,not an attack on children so curious how the forum felt on this issue. Thanks.

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Deut 23:2 was true at the time God said it but that is punishing the son for the father's sin. God abrogated that commandment later in Ezek.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

That's why perversion means death for all those who accept it and live perverted lives.

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You sure think about sex a lot.

Daniel C said:

This is the same argument Muslims use about critics of the koran: Unless the book is spoken in the original (Arabic) language,it doesn't count.

Well my God is not Allah and he promised to preserve his word for me and all people:

Psalm 12:6-7
6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

My KJV is that preservation and in it the translators use Bastard so I say the same:


''A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.''

If you want to use heathen dialogue that's fine but don't try to criminalize the lords clean language.

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Muslims believe that the Quran is no longer the word of Allah if it is not in Arabic. That's not even remotely the argument being made here in regards to the Bible.

What is being said is the cultural connotations of the word may not be the same. This could happen in literally any translation of anything at all. It's not that the Bible no longer God's Word when in English, but we should be careful about insisting a particular translation is an accurate translation of the original word.

I feel like this has been stated ad nauseam by now, but the original word in Hebrew is mamzer. Mamzer is much broader than bastard, because it is not restricted to children born out of wedlock. It encompasses children born to one Jewish parent and one pagan parent (even if the two are legally married), as well as anyone with illegitimacy, incest, etc. within their heritage. Bastard is a poor translation of the word because it does not encompass the full meaning of mamzer.

The Bible is God's Word, whatever the translation being read, but insisting that a particular English word or phrase is "God's language" even when the word doesn't totally encompass the definition of the original word or phrase is making an idol out of said translation.

CharismaticLady said:

equal to God, or men. You said God!

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Oh, I see, that instead of "men and women are equal to God". i.e. in the eyes of God, I just typed "Women are equal to God". Horrible. Thanks for drawing my attention to it.

eleos1954 said:

What is "God's" language? Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic? Something else?

We have no idea

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Angelic, of course. (There is a German joke which uses the coincidence that angelic and English are both "Englisch" in German).

THE W said:

Does this mean it is OK for you if children born out of wedlock are banned, rejected etc.?

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no and, again, the OP never made that claim.

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Well, his OP was quite ambiguous.

SkyWriting said:

You sure think about sex a lot.

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When someone continues in sin and posts about it, whether it is politic, moral, physical, or sexual perversion, that is what I reply to / post the Scripture Reality concerning.

My posts are never approving of any sexual perversion/sin/ anywhere, as God and His Word never does.

Yet your posts (several found in a simple search after someone reported my post yesterday did not have correct 'substance' (in other words) )
have openly stated support of sinful behavior without repentance (or rather no repentance seen for these supports of sinful behavior) since at least this post:

#133 - SkyWriting
My next door neighbor is gay and the way some forum people talk, these might be headed for "Robs" house.
(you had asked for someone to talk to about being 'bad' - there you go... )

Daniel C said:

Do you plan on having Bastard children or do you plan on being wed first?

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I plan to get married before I have children. That's assuming God calls me to marriage and motherhood in the first place, however.

I still don't think it's right to call children derogatory terms (never mind that they were legal terms in 1611, when the KJV was translated) and I'm not going to compare an unmarried mother to a prostitute (especially if she has since repented and is my fellow Christian, because her sin is no longer her identity at that point).

I don't see why you're bringing this up to me as a response to a post about translation, though. It's kind of a non sequitur.

Daniel C said:

This is talking about actual crimes and violations of the law,not the legitimacy of marriage and bastard children.

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The sin which resulted in an illegitimate child in no lesser nor greater than any of the listed sins. Children who suffered for their fathers sins had not sinned neither had any illegitimate child. But God permits illegitimate children to suffer for the sins of their fathers? I don't think so.

''So God clearly wants children to enter into the world in a certain manner. Just wandering if people here think having a Bastard child is acceptable or marriage before the child's birth is essential? The world keeps pushing for more and more of Gods will to be eliminated,please bear in mind this ultimately is an issue of how adults and potential parents conduct themselves,not an attack on children so curious how the forum felt on this issue. Thanks.''

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So God will not punish anyone for the sins of their parents except for the sin of sexual immorality?

Daniel C said:

Gossip.

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Not especially so. The title of the thread gives a specific reference to the child and not to the parents. The reference in the OP to Deuteronomy 23:2 counterposed with Hebrews 12:7-8 specifically suggests something is deficit in the child. The legal status of the child's parents' marriage is something that the child has as much control over as the colour of their eyes, their DNA, and a whole lot more.

The witness of scripture in the area of birthright and legitimacy is complex, Jacob and Esau, David and Solomon, so the reality is that there is a standard upheld in terms of monogamy there are plenty of examples where God has dealt kindly with the offspring.

The notion of original sin should not be confused with a notion of original guilt. Each of us has enough of our own sin so as not to need the burden of Adam's sin to convict us. All of us rely on the saving grace of redemption in Jesus Christ. In that position none of us are legitimate, we are all adopted children.

Daniel C said:

... having a Bastard child is acceptable or marriage before the child's birth is essential?

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Obviously, marriage is not essential, since God could have made it essential, but He didn't.

It is, however, God's will