Sola scriptura or ECF-like traditions of man? Christ in Mark 7

BobRyan

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Since the bible fits within the tradition of the Gospel itself, which is Jesus Christ himself and is formed around that context I don't see how the Bible is not part of the tradition of the faith in general.

Is this an example of Jesus saying "the scripture fits your so-called holy tradition so lets accept it since it is inline with your teaching"??

Or does it illustrate "the opposite"?

What did Christ say?

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”
 
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BobRyan

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Notice - I believe in sola scriptura -- which means I predict that scripture alone will debunk any sort of error raised against it.

No wonder then that the scripture that does it - would be the focus and solution for complaints against the very practice we see in scripture
 
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Tradition is "that which is handed down". If it is received and then passed on to the next generation, it is Tradition. The Gospel is Tradition. The Christian faith as a whole is Tradition. Scripture is Tradition. Everything that is received and passed on is Tradition.

Some tradition was purely invented by man and contradicts the tradition given to us by God. The Pharisees were guilty of that. Some tradition was given to us by God and received by His people, and it is that which the Apostles command us to hold fast to.

There is no meaningful distinction between Scripture and Tradition. The only distinction is between Tradition that is from God - which includes Scripture - and tradition that is not from God. The Reformation is replete with traditions that are not from God, one of which is the tradition of sola scriptura.
 
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Dave-W

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Said to Timothy whom only had the Greek Old Testament.
Only? How do you know he did not also have the Hebrew Scriptures or the Aramaic Targums?
 
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fwGod

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Holy Scripture is part of Holy Tradition.
They never mentioned "Sola Scriptura"
People argue against "trinity" because there is no such word in the Bible. Yet there is a number of verses that pertain to the theological word.

They argue against "rapture" because they say there is no such word in the Bible. Yet there is a number of verses that pertain to the theological word.

You argue against "sola scrptura" because you say that it was never mentioned in the Bible. Yet, the Lord Jesus used "sola scriptura" when he was tempted of the devil.. Jesus time and again said "It is written".

We are admonished in many verses and in many ways to "hold fast our confession of faith without wavering for He is faithful who promised."

Definition of "sola scriptura": The scripture alone is authoritative for christian faith and practice.
Nowhere Scripture is mentioned as "supreme".
The word of God is supreme over all things because
Mat.4:4 "Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

When Jesus said it is written in order to counter satan's temptations.. Jesus demonstrated the authority of the written Word of God.

The religious leaders asked Jesus in Lk.20:2 “Tell us,” they said, “by what authority are You doing these things, and who gave You this authority?”

Deuteronomy 10:17 "The Lord your God is supreme over all gods and over all powers. He is great and mighty, and he is to be obeyed. He does not show partiality, and he does not accept bribes."

1 Cor. 2:4-5 "And my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God."
 
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JohnAshton

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I have seen no new threads that say "doctrine means nothing."

Many of the 'sola scriptura' crowd are misdefining 'tradition as what it meant to the Jews then and to Christians today.

'Sola scriptura', or 'literalism,' is not scriptural.
 
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Only? How do you know he did not also have the Hebrew Scriptures or the Aramaic Targums?
He MAY have - probably not, but maybe - but I think the point was more that he had what we know of as the Old Testament, and not the New Testament. Whether he had it in one or three languages, it was still just the Old Testament.
 
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BobRyan

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Tradition is "that which is handed down". If it is received and then passed on to the next generation, it is Tradition. The Gospel is Tradition. The Christian faith as a whole is Tradition. Scripture is Tradition. Everything that is received and passed on is Tradition. .

Do you see Christ making that case in Mark 7 ... or the opposite of it??

What did Christ say about the holy tradition of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai ... vs scripture?

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”
 
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BobRyan

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I have seen no new threads that say "doctrine means nothing."

me neither -- what they are saying is "Scripture means nothing" and only ECF quotes have value so don't show doctrine from scripture -- just from ECF.
 
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Knee V

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Do you see Christ making that case in Mark 7 ... or the opposite of it??
Christ makes the case that their traditions are of men, and those man-made traditions contradict what God has given them.

The Apostles command the Christians to follow the Apostolic Tradition. There is a difference, and context matters.
 
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Knee V

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me neither -- what they are saying is "Scripture means nothing" and only ECF quotes have value so don't show doctrine from scripture -- just from ECF.
What we are saying is that Scripture is understood within a particular context, and that Scripture is not understood outside of that context.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
me neither -- what they are saying is "Scripture means nothing" and only ECF quotes have value so don't show doctrine from scripture -- just from ECF.

What we are saying is that Scripture is understood within a particular context, and that Scripture is not understood outside of that context.

I assume then that you do not agree with "scripture proof for doctrine means nothing ... only ECF quotes matter" the way this idea is being put forward on those threads.

In fact I might go so far as to say that under normal circumstances that might represent a false characterization of your POV.

So that raises another question - the person promoting it - is on the ECF-and-Tradition side of the fence. But he/she is promoting a view that others might say is precisely NOT how they want the ECF-Tradition side to be represented.

Who among the tradition-and-scripture is then trying to go over there and present what you view as the balanced POV?

So far it appears that only the sola scriptura posts are pointing to the "correction" on those threads.Or did I miss something?
 
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GingerBeer

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We see it in Acts 17:11
We see it in Mark 7:6-13
Whoever "we" is they are seeing what is not there.
Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
Acts 17:11​
This is a story about a Jewish group? Isn't the new testament excluded from the holy books of the Jews? The Jews in the verse were not consulting the new testament scriptures. They worked with the old testament alone. Their nobility was not because they examined the scriptures but because they received the word with all eagerness. They received the teaching, a new teaching, that Paul brought to them. From a strictly Jewish "sola scriptura" perspective Paul was preaching a new doctrine. One that is not in the old testament unless the old testament is read through Christian eyes. What made the Jews here noble was seeing the old testament scriptures through the lens of Christian teaching that they received gladly from Paul.​
And Mark's gospel doesn't teach sola scriptura nor does it use the words "sola scriptura". The verses you pointed to teach that Pharisee traditions that nullify the Law given through Moses are wicked because the abrogate the Law while pretending to uphold it. They are hypocritical people teaching hypocritical doctrines invented by their "elders".
And the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, “Why do your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with defiled hands?” And he said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, “‘This people honours me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.” And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition! For Moses said, ‘Honour your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, “Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban”’ (that is, given to God)— then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother, thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
Mark 7:5-13​
These verses do not teach "sola scriptura" they teach the hypocrisy of pretended adherence to scripture while abrogating it by one's deeds. The Pharisees said they were teachers of the Law but their actions were disobedience of the Law.
 
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I assume then that you do not agree with "scripture proof for doctrine means nothing ... only ECF quotes matter" the way this idea is being put forward on those threads.

In fact I might go so far as to say that under normal circumstances that might represent a false characterization of your POV.

So that raises another question - the person promoting it - is on the ECF-and-Tradition side of the fence. But he/she is promoting a view that others might say is precisely NOT how they want the ECF-Tradition side to be represented.

Who among the tradition-and-scripture is then trying to go over there and present what you view as the balanced POV?

So far it appears that only the sola scriptura posts are pointing to the "correction" on those threads.Or did I miss something?
In those posts I didn't see anything that I felt was problematic.

It is quite possible that we are reading those posts differently, coming from two different perspectives. It is possible that those posts are misrepresenting my view and my own bias has prevented me from seeing it, and it is also possible that they are simply wording my POV differently, but in a way that sounds different to a person who is not coming from my POV.
 
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Crosstian

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And yet again we see the false dichotomy.
God's word says:

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

That is clear.

Not least because looking from the 21st century you dont even seem to understand what the words you are using mean like "tradition"
The word is defined by scripture.

, or what they meant at the time to the jews, indeed the true translations.
What it meant to the Jews is found in scripture. Jesus is a Jew and would know best, and so was Paul.

The word "paradosis" means "handing down", means the entire faith handed down.
It simply means transmission of something from one person to another, and in the King James Bible is is translated as:

παράδοσις
paradosis

Total KJV Occurrences: 13

tradition, 10

Mat_15:2-3 (2), Mat_15:6, Mar_7:3, Mar_7:5, Mar_7:8-9 (2), Mar_7:13, Col_2:8, 2Th_3:6

traditions, 2

Gal_1:14, 2Th_2:15

ordinances, 1

1Co_11:2

In the septuaginta - Kata Biblon Wiki Lexicon - παράδοσις - tradition (n.)

παραδόσει παράδοσις παραδοσ(ι)·ι
(fem) dat sg tradition (dat)
Jer 39:4, Jer 41:2

In which both cases simply means to speak instruction from person to person. Just orders, and or instruction being passed from one to another. It doesn't inherently mean holy things, faith, handed along and can simply be common orders, etc.

And that was how the faith was passed.
Instruction was passed by mouth and written word (hence "letter", "epistle"):

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Paul stated that all things needed to be proved by the word of God:

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 
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Crosstian

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The word used to translate paradosis is "tradition" which has a colloquial interpretation now which resutls in false assumptions as is yours.
Not at all. There is not false apriori here, for Jesus himself, and Paul and Peter warned of false "traditions" that were already in circulation in their day.

Col_2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

2Pe_3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Others were already corrupting the word:

2Co_2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

You see in Paul the apostle says "stay true to traditions we taught you by word of mouth and letter"

So in true meaning of tradition even Paul says it has veracity. So not the traditions of man then.
The question is what "traditions" was Paul referring to in context? Made up stuff with no other foundation than devils and men?

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Notice, that in 2 Thessalonians 2:2, this is referred to before:

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul already told them in 1 Thessalonians, and it was in regards the second coming (see context) and what they (Thessalonians) were to be doing unto the coming of Jesus.

So Paul himself, actually referred to his personal face to face speaking, and also written in an earlier "our epistle". (1 Thess.)

In 1 Thessalonians 1:3, we see that Paul commended them for their "work of faith and labour of love".

In 1 Thessalonians 1:5 (2:2-5) it speaks of the "gospel" did not come in "word" ("speak", "exhortation", "words") only, but in "power" (Holy Spirit).

In 1 Thessalonians 2:8 it speaks of the "gospel" having been "imparted".

In 1 Thessalonians 2:9 it speaks of the "gospel" having been "preached" and also of the "labour and travail".

1Th 2:10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:
1Th 2:11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children,
1Th 2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

And so Paul continues by speaking of his example of labour (not in laziness, indolence as some were, being busybodies, etc) among them, and in the gospel:

1Th 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.

Herein is then the "tradition" which Paul spake of that was spoken unto them:

1Th 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
1Th 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
1Th 4:5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
1Th 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
1Th 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
1Th 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
1Th 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
1Th 4:10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;
1Th 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
1Th 4:12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
The Coming of the Lord
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

And more:

1Th 5:12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
1Th 5:13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.
1Th 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
1Th 5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
1Th 5:16 Rejoice evermore.
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
1Th 5:25 Brethren, pray for us.
1Th 5:26 Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss.
1Th 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.
1Th 5:28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Ain't that sumthin'.

Paul wasn't referring to man-made 'tradition' that came along later and passed itself off as truth.
 
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Crosstian

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The word used to translate paradosis is "tradition" which has a colloquial interpretation now which resutls in false assumptions as is yours.

Let's make sure.

What does our brother Paul mean by the words "the tradition" in 2 Thessalonians 3:6?

2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

"tradition", "traditions" - bad sense

Matthew 15:2 - Matthew 15:3 - Matthew 15:6
Mark 7:3 - Mark 7:5 - Mark 7:8 - Mark 7:9 - Mark 7:13
Galatians 1:14
Colossians 2:8
1 Peter 1:18

In certain passages the word "custom" simply means a positive habit, or repeated action (Luke 4:16, likewise "manner" (Acts 17:2)).

Other times it means a place of gathering taxation, as "sitting at the receipt of custom" (Matthew 9:9 - Mark 2:14 - Luke 5:27), or giving "custom to whom custom" (Romans 13:7) is due.

Also, it can mean a bad tradition, a wicked custom.

"custom" - evil or heathen sense

1 Samuel 2:13
John 18:39
1 Corinthians 11:16

"customs" - wicked sense

Leviticus 18:30
Jeremiah 10:3

There are two known places that the word "tradition" is utilized in a positive meaning.

"tradition" - good sense

2 Thessalonians 2:15
2 Thessalonians 3:6

Brothers and sisters, we should study this together and look at all of the connecting words, and ask our Father for understanding to understand what this means so that we are united together by the word. Let us read the surrounding words, and allow the Holy Spirit of God to enlighten us by teaching us what these things mean.

In prayerfully reading the text, and asking God about this, I continued to read, and here is what I was shown in the same place.

2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
2Th 3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
2Th 3:8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
2Th 3:9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
2Th 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
2Th 3:11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
2Th 3:12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
2Th 3:13 But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.
2Th 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
2Th 3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

As instructed of God, "the tradition" that Paul speaks of, is not "walking disorderly" (vs 6), and to "follow us", being the example of Paul and others, who "walked not disorderly" (vs 7), and did not "eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you" (vs 8), so that they would be an "ensample unto you who follow us" (vs 9).

We see "commandment" (vss 6,10,12) in regards "the tradition" (vs 10), in that "if any would not work, neither should he eat.", and that this was the orderliness and ensample of Paul's life. This is then contrasted in the next verse to those who are "disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies." (vs 11). This same "command" and exhortation is that those who are presently "disorderly" should "with quietness they work, and eat their own bread." (vs 12) as Paul and others did.

Paul finishes out by telling them who are orderly to "continue in well doing" (vs 13), as they had learned of his own ensample and manner of living, laboring with his own hands to provide for himself while ministering the Gospel.

This is "the tradition", the living custom, the continued godly habit of Paul that he speaks of, and was this that is handed down, in example, in demonstration. Work for the Lord instead of going about as "busybodies", who are "working not at all", "walking disorderly", and who expected to eat of the food of the group, when they would not work with their hands as Paul. No free lunch, and whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might,, as unto the Lord, might best sum it up.

The "and" in this instance means in contrast between the false walking and the true walking.

Example

I can say, "Turn not to the left as others and turn to the right as myself."

"walking disorderly" is in contrast with the walking orderly which is "the tradition" or custom or habit set by Paul and others as the example.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

It could then be paraphrased as such

(paraphrased in part) withdraw yourselves away from every brother that is walking disorderly and not after the habit of orderly walking which he received of us by example.

See in vs (7)

2 Thessalonians 3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

The "follow us" is "the tradition", the habit that Paul and others had set amongst them. May I show you? Paul refers back to the previous time in 1 Thessalonians

1 Thessalonians 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.

I see yet a little more in that Paul bases that commandment on his own manner and habit and knowledge of the scriptures, as he himself followed the example of Jesus to work with his own hands and to follow the commandments of God in the word of God.

Paul was raised as an Hebrew of the Hebrews, and thus skills, such as tent making, carpentry, fishing and the like were taught unto the children in life, that they might find the enjoyment and blessing of true labouring, to reap the reward through such. Like as gardening. He who does not sow does not reap. Paul would also have backing for this in the Old Testament texts,

Proverbs 12:24 The hand of the diligent shall bear rule: but the slothful shall be under tribute.
Proverbs 12:27 The slothful man roasteth not that which he took in hunting: but the substance of a diligent man is precious.

Proverbs 18:9 He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster.

Proverbs 19:24 A slothful man hideth his hand in his bosom, and will not so much as bring it to his mouth again.

Proverbs 26:15 The slothful hideth his hand in his bosom; it grieveth him to bring it again to his mouth.

The prayerful and thoughtful responses, along with the unity of thought have helped solidify the conclusion arrived at concerning the words of Paul in regards "the tradition" in 2 Thessalonians 3:6.

I have heard others give an entirely different meaning to these words which could not be reconciled with the text itself and strained them by forcing them to mean what they wanted them to mean, and they could not justify their position based upon the words themselves, but only added to the words their own meanings and definitions, to suit their own practices; whatever those were.

When someone brings up the word "tradition" in regards their teaching or action, we ought to then be more careful to discern, and to ask for evidence from God's word about such practices or teaching, whether it be of God or of men.

As a challenge to myself, and to all who read, a question to ask oneself.

Is there anything which I personally do as a habit, a custom, a tradition, even a teaching, or even a thinking, which cannot be sustained by God's word, and might be contrary to that example therein and if so, will I give it up to follow God?
 
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Crosstian

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Jesus said "teach this" and "do this" he did not say "write this" or "read this"
You are mistaken:

Jesus was the one which spake to Moses to "write".

Jesus said:

Joh_5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Luk_10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

Jesus over and over again stated, "It is written".

Jesus, when referring to men's ideology, said, "Ye have heard it hath been said ...", and then proceeded to correct it and put it in proper perspective.

Jesus referred to the "word", "Moses", "David", "Psalms", "Prophets", "Commandments", and so on.

... although some of them did. Presumably because it would be almost another 2000 years before first the printing press
There were hundreds of scribes in Jerusalem. The OT & NT are replete with them. It's why we have thousands of copies in Greek, Syriac, Latin, etc, even today.

One of these days someone like you will research that history before making such pronouncements, but I wont hold my breath. The same post appears almost weekly from one of the ill informed.
I have read plenty of history and have the citations to demonstrate what I say.

The ECF are replete with contradictory material, non-scriptural material, pagan philosophy, illogical arguments, false-erroneous information, exaggerations, vain traditions, and unscientific materials.
 
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JohnAshton

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me neither -- what they are saying is "Scripture means nothing" and only ECF quotes have value so don't show doctrine from scripture -- just from ECF.
No, no one is saying, "Scripture means nothing." No one.
 
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Albion

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Tradition is "that which is handed down". If it is received and then passed on to the next generation, it is Tradition. The Gospel is Tradition. The Christian faith as a whole is Tradition. Scripture is Tradition. Everything that is received and passed on is Tradition.
Good. We are at least now actually speaking about traditions, not just some word to be thrown around as needed.

Some tradition was purely invented by man and contradicts the tradition given to us by God. The Pharisees were guilty of that. Some tradition was given to us by God and received by His people, and it is that which the Apostles command us to hold fast to.
Not exactly. The verse you are referring to simply says to keep up ("hold") the traditions they knew ( 2 Thessalonians 2:15). It also means not to add to them, yet that is the whole point of "Holy Tradition" so-called--to add, over time, doctrines which are not found in Scripture!

The verse does not identify a single one of those traditions and could easily be referring to practices that do not define any doctrine. Our religion has scads of them.

Yet that is what the Scripture vs. Tradition argument is all about--defining doctrine, not something else.
 
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