Could you share with us the verses that detail the existence of these ceremonial laws and moral laws

Daniel Marsh said:

Could you share with us the verses that detail the existence of these ceremonial laws and moral laws?

above was asked by someone elsewhere and I am curious.

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The word, 'ceremonial', and the concept of a ceremonial law are not in the scripture.

The written law contain civil laws, health laws, moral laws, sacrificial laws, e.t.c.

To call over six hundred laws, 'ceremonial laws', is wildly inaccurate and misleading.

klutedavid said:

The word, 'ceremonial', and the concept of a ceremonial law are not in the scripture. .

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until you read 1 Cor 7:19 and Hebrews 10.

It is amazing how well D.L. Moody, R.C Sproul, C.H. Spurgeon, the "Baptist Confession of Faith" sectn 19 and the Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19 figured that Bible detail out.

I used the term ceremonial in the sense of a public ritual conducted by ecclesiastic authorities.

BobRyan said:

Paul gives points out that circumcision is a good example of it -- in 1 Cor 7:19 and in that text he says the "commandments of God" are by contrast to it.

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Since you quoted from Paul's letter (1 Corinthians 7:19) regarding the commandments, you might like to read the following paragraph later in that same letter.

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.

The Lord gave a new set of commandments which Paul is relating to the Corinthians.

Paul contrasts an example of ceremonial law (circumcision) with the moral law of God "Commandments of God" in 1 Cor 7:19

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Where the "Commandments of God" for Paul are those where "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 is the 5th commandment

A Bible detail so obvious that the Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith section 19 both admit to it.

Certainly the animal sacrifices of Heb 10 that end at the cross were conducted by ecclesiastic authorities

Daniel Marsh said:

"
10. What is the ceremonial law?

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Paul gives points out that circumcision is a good example of it -- in 1 Cor 7:19 and in that text he says the "commandments of God" are by contrast to it.

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

klutedavid said:

Since you quoted from Paul's letter (1 Corinthians 7:19) regarding the commandments, you might like to read the following paragraph later in that same letter.

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.

.

Click to expand...

Since you are quoting Paul you might be interested in Paul's statement in Eph 6:1-2 where he reminds us that the fifth commandment is the "first commandment with a promise" in that still-valld set of TEN commandments. A point that D.L. Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith also affirm.

No wonder Paul quotes from the same TEN in Rom 13 after the cross as does Christ in Matt 19 before the Cross.

Rom 13
8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. (not "abolished")
9 For this,
“You shall not commit adultery,
You shall not murder,
You shall not steal,
You shall not covet,”
and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

The same after the cross as before the cross in Matt 19

From the TEN where "the first commandment with a promise" is still the 5th commandment. Eph 6:1-2 according to Paul

Matt 19
if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Same list unchanged before and after the cross

Ahh the benefits of "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine!! I love it

BobRyan said:

until you read 1 Cor 7:19 and Hebrews 10.

It is amazing how well D.L. Moody, R.C Sproul, C.H. Spurgeon, the "Baptist Confession of Faith" sectn 19 and the Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19 figured that Bible detail out.

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You need to quote where Hebrews 10 even mentions the word, 'ceremonial'?

Hebrews 10
For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things...

The law itself was only ever a shadow of the better commandments that the Lord gave us.

BobRyan said:

Paul gives points out that circumcision is a good example of it -- in 1 Cor 7:19 and in that text he says the "commandments of God" are by contrast to it.

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.



Since you are quoting Paul you might be interested in Paul's statement in Eph 6:1-2 where he reminds us that the fifth commandment is the "first commandment with a promise" in that still-valld set of TEN commandments. A point that D.L. Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith also affirm.

No wonder Paul quotes from the same TEN in Rom 13 after the cross as does Christ in Matt 19 before the Cross.

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That's an inaccurate quotation.

Ephesians 6:1
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.

Then Paul supports this commandment by referring to the law. Your interpretation is reversing the instruction of the apostles to the Gentiles.

BobRyan said:

Paul contrasts an example of ceremonial law (circumcision) with the moral law of God "Commandments of God" in 1 Cor 7:19

Certainly the animal sacrifices of Heb 10 that end at the cross were conducted by ecclesiastic authorities

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Your argument is that the law is 'ceremonial' and you have failed to support that idea from the scripture.

Your quotation (Hebrews 10) announces that the law is but a shadow. The law is good and holy but was only ever a shadow of that which was to come.

BobRyan said:

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

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A perfect example to illustrate that the law is but a shadow, that is why the law is no longer valid.

Since you are quoting Paul you might be interested in Paul's statement in Eph 6:1-2 where he reminds us that the fifth commandment is the "first commandment with a promise" in that still-valld set of TEN commandments. A point that D.L. Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith also affirm.

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You might need to return to support your claim regarding 'ceremonial law'. Your running on another track here and have been unsuccessful in distracting me from your claim.

No wonder Paul quotes from the same TEN in Rom 13 after the cross as does Christ in Matt 19 before the Cross.

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A poor interpretation of Romans 13.

JackRT said:

That is completely false and almost to the point of being laughable.

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Ah I suppose Snopes is the ultimate fact checker.
Since God created, time and is omnipresent.
He is not bound by His creation.
Try to explain no beginning and no ending.
On earth time cannot be bought or sold, God's Word is not laughable to me.
As far as the man who proved it ,that may not be true, yet I could care less, because I believe what God's Word says.
If time on earth was based on the solely on the movement of the Sun
Then Time and man paused.
The Bible says the Sun stood still , it does not say the battle stopped.
I Apologize for the logic I applied, this is not the the place for such discussions.

klutedavid said:

You need to quote where Hebrews 10 even mentions the word, 'ceremonial'?

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It mentions animal sacrifice ending but does not say it is now ok to "take God's name in vain" ... just ok to "not offer animal sacrifice".

Here on this forum we stick with the obvious. Thanks for inquiring.

the LAW of God "written on the heart" Heb 8:6-13 Jer 31:31-34 for New Covenant Christians.

Paul contrasts an example of ceremonial law (circumcision) with the moral law of God "Commandments of God" in 1 Cor 7:19

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Where the "Commandments of God" for Paul are those where "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 is the 5th commandment

A Bible detail so obvious that the Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith section 19 both admit to it.

Certainly the animal sacrifices of Heb 10 that end at the cross were conducted by ecclesiastic authorities

klutedavid said:

A perfect example to illustrate that the law is but a shadow, that is why the law is no longer valid.

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That text did not say "but the commandments of God are no longer valid" as we on this forum are fully aware - since it is obvious to us. Thanks for inquiring about that easy detail.

For New Covenant Christians "the LAW is written on the heart" Heb 8:6-13 not abolished Rom 3:31

klutedavid said:

You might need to return to support your claim regarding 'ceremonial law'. Your running on another track here and have been unsuccessful in distracting me from your claim.

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Distracting you??? from what??

Daniel Marsh said:

"
10. What is the ceremonial law?

Click to expand...

Paul gives points out that circumcision is a good example of it -- in 1 Cor 7:19 and in that text he says the "commandments of God" are by contrast to it.

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

klutedavid said:

Since you quoted from Paul's letter (1 Corinthians 7:19) regarding the commandments, you might like to read the following paragraph later in that same letter.

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.

.

Click to expand...

Since you are quoting Paul you might be interested in Paul's statement in Eph 6:1-2 where he reminds us that the fifth commandment is the "first commandment with a promise" in that still-valld set of TEN commandments. A point that D.L. Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith also affirm.

No wonder Paul quotes from the same TEN in Rom 13 after the cross as does Christ in Matt 19 before the Cross.

Rom 13
8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. (not "abolished")
9 For this,
“You shall not commit adultery,
You shall not murder,
You shall not steal,
You shall not covet,”
and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

The same after the cross as before the cross in Matt 19

From the TEN where "the first commandment with a promise" is still the 5th commandment. Eph 6:1-2 according to Paul

Matt 19
if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Same list unchanged before and after the cross

klutedavid said:

A poor interpretation of Romans 13.

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On 'this forum' you are supposedly inquiring about something - not just complaining about the mere post of a text.

klutedavid said:

Celebrate the new moon day then count till the seventh day, can't go wrong. That was the ancient way of working out when the Sabbath day occurred.

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That is a way to go WAAAAYYYYY wrong. IT is every seventh day, no matter what day of the week the new moon falls on.

Think of it like this: if you start off like that, and you count 1-7, 1-7, 1-7, and then 1-5 and you get the new moon, do you now have a week that is 12 or 13 days long? NO!!!!!!

Every seventh day. There is absolutely ZERO evidence that anyone computed the sabbaths that way at any point in time.

klutedavid said:

Celebrate the new moon day then count till the seventh day, can't go wrong. .

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that is a man-made way to find the 7th day of the week. It is not the way it was done in the Bible.

I prefer the Bible.

27 And it happened the next day, the second day of the month, that David’s place was empty. And Saul said to Jonathan his son, “Why has the son of Jesse not come to eat, either yesterday or today?”

No text says "the second day of the month is always the second day of the week" as we know

BobRyan said:

that is a man-made way to find the 7th day of the week. It is not the way it was done in the Bible.

I prefer the Bible.

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Are you sure about how the Hebrews counted the days in Old Testament.

1 Samuel 20:27
It came about the next day, the second day of the new moon, that David’s place was empty.

Looks like in the era of King David that they were counting days from the new moon, i.e., the start of the month.

Dave-W said:

That is a way to go WAAAAYYYYY wrong. IT is every seventh day, no matter what day of the week the new moon falls on.

Think of it like this: if you start off like that, and you count 1-7, 1-7, 1-7, and then 1-5 and you get the new moon, do you now have a week that is 12 or 13 days long? NO!!!!!!

Every seventh day. There is absolutely ZERO evidence that anyone computed the sabbaths that way at any point in time.

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Are you sure that there is zero evidence?

klutedavid said:

Are you sure about how the Hebrews counted the days in Old Testament.

1 Samuel 20:27
It came about the next day, the second day of the new moon, that David’s place was empty.
.

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And how convenient that we all know that no Bible text on planet earth says "the 7th day of the new moon is always the weekly Sabbath"

klutedavid said:

Celebrate the new moon day then count till the seventh day, can't go wrong. .

Click to expand...

that is a man-made way to find the 7th day of the week. It is not the way it was done in the Bible.

I prefer the Bible.

27 And it happened the next day, the second day of the month, that David’s place was empty. And Saul said to Jonathan his son, “Why has the son of Jesse not come to eat, either yesterday or today?”

No text says "the second day of the month is always the second day of the week" as we know

klutedavid said:

Are you sure about how the Hebrews counted the days in Old Testament.

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No text says "the second day of the month is always the second day of the week" as we know

Nor does any text say "the seventh day of the month is always the weekly Sabbath"

Bible details matter.