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Did the apostles and the early Church believe the Earth was flat?
- Thread starter zoidar
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You still haven't explained how Antarctica can have 24 hours of sunlight during Summer on a flat earth.
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Isn't that what you claim makes the sun disappear at night when it should be visible from anywhere on a flat earth? Superman refraction is one of your arguments, so you prove it. And while you are at it, explain why it doesn't work in Antarctica during Summer.
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No, it's the standard model that posits refraction of the sun below the horizon. The flat model says it recedes until it reaches the convergence point and gets progressively obscured by atmosphere.
Never been to Antarctica in summer, nor seen any reliable footage.
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Jipsah
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Scripture isn't at pains to describe it at all. And since since such descriptions as there are are given in vernacular terms, you infer that they must be technically correct, which simple observation shows to be nonsense. You're trying to make Scripture say stuff that it does not, and stuff that happens not to be true on top of that. Doubleplus ungood.
First tell me why I can point my yagi antenna north and talk to Australia. Oz is supposed to be on the other side of the dinner plate from here, so how is my signal getting there if I point my antenna directly away from them? (This ought to be rich).
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Hand wavy magic. Why are there no scientific studies that back this up?
Why is it that when people in different countries record the angle and bearing of the sun at the same moment, on the flat earth model, none of those lines intersect, whereas on the globe model, they form almost parallel lines converging on a point many thousands of miles into space?
Which model fits observed data?
I doubt you would consider any footage contrary to your belief as reliable
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Well, not any more, he's passed on. But his resume's pretty compelling, you should check out the summary in the quote I posted.
That's the flat, level, horizontal line where land and sky appear to converge that remains level and never drops away no matter how high you ascend. Ah most honorable horizon.
So we see too far, objects eventually get too small and lost in the haze. You don't think the science supports those claims? Do you live under a rock, sir?
Confucius say don't give up day job, friend.
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Huh? That objects in the sky overhead appear to diminish in size, descend towards the horizon and get progressively obscured by haze as they recede without actually changing altitude?
Hand wavy magic!? Surely you jest.
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Oldmantook
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There is not a single scripture which describes the earth as spherical and moving. On the other hand there are many verses which describe a fixed flat earth. I asked you to supply a single scripture to support your claim but suffice to say you have provided none. The vernacular need not be technical. Why should it be?? The creation account is sufficient in layman's terms to describe God's creation and so is the rest of Scripture which describes the earth. Your appeal to "technical" language is a result of being brain washed by your secular education. I prefer to stick with what the scriptures state.
As for your yagi antenna, please be informed that you are propagating your radio waves by refracting them off of the biblical "firmament" otherwise known by your technical term "ionosphere."
Still waiting for your scripture verse.
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The sun and moon do not diminish in size as they apparently pass across the sky. They remain exactly the same size.
If the earth was flat and the sun and moon moved in a firmament dome, flat earthers should be able to cooperate to give angle and bearings to the sun and moon at any particular instant from many different locations and be able to triangulate precise distances to the sun and moon and thus determine the exact height of the firmament. They cannot do this because using a flat earth reference, none of their lines to the sun or moon intersect. With a globe earth reference they all intersect perfectly. The flat earth model does not correlate with observed data while the globe earth model does.
Sunlight hours
According to your flat earth model, this is impossible. When it is daytime in Brazil and night in Australia, yet the sun is visible at Australia's Mawson base and Davis base for 24 hours a day for a couple of weeks in December.
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You're right, the atmosphere does create some refraction.
Not necessarily, because we don't know what the sun is and how its apparent position is affected by the molten mirror-like firmament (remember that book called the Bible?)
You may be right at present, not sure but I think the astrolabe is based on a FE model using celestial objects including sun moon and stars to triangulate position.
I'm not up with the latest. But the spinning globe has a bunch of other problems in this dept - what about the selenelion for starters, which should never be feasible on a globe?
Let alone why we don't see completely different night skies in summer v winter and how we can see Mercury or Venus at all after dark.
Next we'll get into the 95%+ of unknown universe you need to prop up your model. Or we could just be still and know that He is God. Oh I forgot, there is no rest day or night in your world. Sixes all the way smh. Sounds like the torment of the damned from Revelation to me. Praying for you man.
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Which philosophers and what did they say that would imply it was round?
Here's a book by an one author who reads the original Greek writing that Plato thought the earth as flat. "It seems clear that in the republic Plato had in mind the traditional poetic picture of Hades below a flat earth"
The Shape of the Earth in Plato's "Phaedo" on JSTOR
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Depending on conditions it can make the sun and moon look larger as well just above the horizon.
It consistently produces accurate, repeatable results in a globe model. Pleasr provide chapter and verse for "molten mirror-like firmament". I can't find such a description on my Bible.
So when atmospheric refraction supports your view, its true. When atmospheric refraction supports our view, its false. How typical.
Why would you think the night skies would be completely different in Summer and Winter? Mercury has only a few times where it is visible in the twilight just before dawn or just after sunset. Venus has a larger orbit so can be seen for longer after sunset or before sunrise. Neither can be seen in the middle of the night.
The globe model is proving extremely reliable. The flat earth model fails on many levels.
Please explain what you mean by that.
Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Always appreciated. Likewise.
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Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass? (Job 37:18 KJV)
That would apply mutatis mutandis. But some phenomena are demonstrably not refraction effects.
The matrix is reliable. Doesn't mean its's true.
Nothing is ever at rest in your model. Everything is moving always.
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name. (Rev 14:11)
Plus:
Globe earth mathematical calculations ... 666
So don't worship the beast!
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