CharismaticLady

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Based on the words of Christ below, the times of the Gentiles ends at the future Second Coming of Christ.

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


The New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.
Therefore, it cannot end before the Second Coming of Christ.

.

The "times" of the Gentiles, and the "fullness" of the Gentiles are two different things. Details matter.

First one is bad where Israel is persecuted by Gentiles: the times of the Gentiles.

And the second is good as in Romans 11 where Gentiles are being added to the Church: the fullness of the Gentiles. But that is only until the last seven years before Christ. Then the partial blindness is lifted off Israel, and it will be the unsaved Gentiles that will all receive a strong delusion from God.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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BABerean2 said:
Based on the words of Christ below, the times of the Gentiles ends at the future Second Coming of Christ.

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Based on your interpretation that conclusion is drawn about His coming.
Isn't this a different topic than the preterist gap in the prophecy of Daniel? Or are you somehow making this fit into the 70 weeks?
Yeah. I don't see how anyone cannot view Luke 21:24 and Revelation 13:10 as one and the same event.
Daniel, 70ad Luke 21 and Revelation go together like frosting on a cake......

Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10

Daniel 11:33
And ones being intelligent<7919> of people they shall cause to understand to many-ones,
and they stumble<3782> in sword and in blaze<3852>, in captivity<7628> and in plunder days<3117>
[Sword and captive/captivity are mentioned together in only 2 verses of the NT:]

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Revelation 11:2 Revelation13:10]

What about Revelation 11:1-2 SANCTUARY, COURT AND HOLY CITY

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of God and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>outside of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side<1854> and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Gentiles/Nations.
And the holy City they shall be treading<3961>forty two months

Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance<5281> and the faith of the Saints
 
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CharismaticLady

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Hello BAB and CL.
And also badly translated...........

What about Revelation 11:1-2 SANCTUARY, COURT AND HOLY CITY

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the GOD and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>[Priests/Lavar/Altar of Sacrifice] outside of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<ἔκβαλε/ekbale <1544> out-side<1854> and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Gentiles/Nations.
And the holy City they shall be treading<3961>forty two months

Galatians 4:30
but what saith the Writing? 'be casting out!<ἔκβαλε/ekbale <1544> the Maid-servant/paidiskhn <3814> and her son...
[Genesis 21:10 Adam expelled from Garden]
============================
LLoJ's attempted translation of Revelation using the major Greek texts in 2008.............

Revelation chapt 11 verse study
Oct 13, 2008.

NRC1RMycmijxrQiU4xPqnD1o.jpeg

===================

I could only find 2 versions that have "cast out" in that verse:

Revelation 11:2 biblehub

Douay-Rheims Bible

But the court, which is without the temple, cast out, and measure it not: because it is given unto the Gentiles, and the holy city they shall tread under foot two and forty months:
Darby Bible Translation
And the court which [is] without the temple cast out, and measure it not; because it has been given [up] to the nations, and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty-two months.

I've thought about that also and see the court outside as given to the Gentiles, is where the Muslim Mosk now stands. IMO
 
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CharismaticLady

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As LLoJ already posted - Josephus was an eye-witness to what was going on in the first century. Does a person have to be of a particular stream of faith in order to report the news? IIRC - Josephus was trained in Scripture (but I'm not certain - nor should it really matter. Facts are facts and are unbiased truth).

Josephus was born after Jesus died, and reported eye witness accounts, but, he, himself was not Christian.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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LittleLambofJesus said:
Hello BAB and CL.
And also badly translated...........
What about Revelation 11:1-2 SANCTUARY, COURT AND HOLY CITY
I've thought about that also and see the court outside as given to the Gentiles, is where the Muslim Mosk now stands. IMO
Spirit led Preterists view 1st century Herod's Temple and Jerusalem as that great City in Revelation 18............

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of God and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>[Priests/Lavar/Altar of Sacrifice] outside of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side<1854> and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Gentiles/Nations.
And the holy City they shall be treading<3961>forty two months.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

NRC1RMycmijxrQiU4xPqnD1o.jpeg



Is Jerusalem 70 ad the great City in Revelation?
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  8. It is Rome
    1 vote(s)
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CharismaticLady

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Spirit led Preterists view 1st century Herod's Temple and Jerusalem as that great City in Revelation 18............

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of God and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>[Priests/Lavar/Altar of Sacrifice] outside of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side<1854> and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Gentiles/Nations.
And the holy City they shall be treading<3961>forty two months.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

NRC1RMycmijxrQiU4xPqnD1o.jpeg



Is Jerusalem 70 ad the great City in Revelation?
Edit
  1. *
    Yes
    6 vote(s)
    24.0%
  2. No
    13 vote(s)
    52.0%
  3. Maybe
    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  4. Never thought about it that way
    0 vote(s)
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  5. I don't know, but am willing to learn
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  7. Other [please explaine]
    4 vote(s)
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  8. It is Rome
    1 vote(s)
    4.0%

Yes, I understand that they do. Matthew 24:2 is Herod's Temple. But I don't see anything in Revelation about it.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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LittleLambofJesus said:
Spirit led Preterists view 1st century Herod's Temple and Jerusalem as that great City in Revelation 18............
Yes, I understand that they do. Matthew 24:2 is Herod's Temple. But I don't see anything in Revelation about it.
Hello CL........Herod's temple and Sanctuary were in 1st century Jerusalem.

Jesus mentioned Jerusalem in the verses just previous to the 70AD Jerusalem/Temple discourse;

The "house" could be symbolizing either the Temple, the Sanctuary, both of those, or House of Judah

Mat 21:13
And He said to them, “It is written, My house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you have made it a ‘den of thieves.' ”
Luk 19:46
saying to them, “It is written, My house is a house of prayer,'but you have made it a ‘den of thieves.' ”

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
Matthew 23:38
“See! Your house is left to you desolate;
Luke 13:34
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!
Luke 13:35 “See! Your house is left to you desolate;
========================
The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:18
And they cried, observing the smoke of Her burning, saying, "What is like to the great City?"
19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried, lamenting, weeping and mourning, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships in the sea, out of Her preciousness,
for to one hour was She was desolated.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Hello CL........Herod's temple and Sanctuary were in 1st century Jerusalem.

Jesus mentioned Jerusalem in the verses just previous to the 70AD Jerusalem/Temple discourse;

The "house" could be symbolizing either the Temple, the Sanctuary, both of those, or House of Judah

Mat 21:13
And He said to them, “It is written, My house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you have made it a ‘den of thieves.' ”
Luk 19:46
saying to them, “It is written, My house is a house of prayer,'but you have made it a ‘den of thieves.' ”

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
Matthew 23:38
“See! Your house is left to you desolate;
Luke 13:34
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!
Luke 13:35 “See! Your house is left to you desolate;
========================
The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:18
And they cried, observing the smoke of Her burning, saying, "What is like to the great City?"
19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried, lamenting, weeping and mourning, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships in the sea, out of Her preciousness,
for to one hour was She was desolated.
Herod's temple was destroyed in 70 AD
 
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BABerean2

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The "times" of the Gentiles, and the "fullness" of the Gentiles are two different things. Details matter.

First one is bad where Israel is persecuted by Gentiles: the times of the Gentiles.

And the second is good as in Romans 11 where Gentiles are being added to the Church: the fullness of the Gentiles. But that is only until the last seven years before Christ. Then the partial blindness is lifted off Israel, and it will be the unsaved Gentiles that will all receive a strong delusion from God.

If you are attempting to promote the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology, you are trying to climb a smooth vertical cliff without any equipment.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis

.
 
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BABerean2

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Based on your interpretation that conclusion is drawn about His coming.

Isn't this a different topic than the preterist gap in the prophecy of Daniel? Or are you somehow making this fit into the 70 weeks?

Some of us insist Luke 21:25-28 happened during 70 AD.
I believe otherwise.

Feel free to share your thoughts on the subject.

.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Herod's temple was destroyed in 70 AD
Along with Jerusalem.........:idea:

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com,
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

Revelation 17:
16 And the ten Horns which thou saw and the Beast, these shall be hating the harlot,
and They shall be making Her desolate and naked,
and the fleshes of Her they shall be eating
and shall be burning Her in fire.

17 For the GOD gives into Their hearts to do the mind of Him, and to do One mind and to give Their kingdom to the Beast
until shall be being finished the words of the GOD.

Revelation 18:
18 And they cried, observing the smoke of Her burning, saying, "What is like to the great City?"
19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried, lamenting, weeping and mourning, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships in the sea, out of Her preciousness,
for to one hour was She was desolated.
==============================
................................

302660_c2760f5cc7d57e7088338ce451af705b.jpg
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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BABerean2 said:
Based on the words of Christ below, the times of the Gentiles ends at the future Second Coming of Christ.
mkgal1 said:
Based on your interpretation that conclusion is drawn about His coming.

Isn't this a different topic than the preterist gap in the prophecy of Daniel? Or are you somehow making this fit into the 70 weeks?
Some of us insist Luke 21:25-28 happened during 70 AD.
I believe otherwise.
Feel free to share your thoughts on the subject.
.
That says a lot....................
On a side note, I haven't seen you commenting on this thread lately
[I could also use views from others, especially from fellow Preterists/Amills :wave:]

What about Revelation 11:1-2 SANCTUARY, COURT AND HOLY CITY

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of God and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>[Priests/Lavar/Altar of Sacrifice] outside of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side<1854> and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Gentiles/Nations.
And the holy City they shall be treading<3961>forty two months.
[Luke 21:24]
 
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jgr

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Josephus was born after Jesus died, and reported eye witness accounts, but, he, himself was not Christian.

Josephus' reporting was remarkably objective. Though a Jew himself, he did not hesitate to indict his countrymen:

It is therefore impossible to go distinctly over every instance of these men's iniquity. I shall therefore speak my mind here at once briefly: - That neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world.

Wars of the Jews, Book V, Chapter X, Section 5
 
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CharismaticLady

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If you are attempting to promote the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology, you are trying to climb a smooth vertical cliff without any equipment.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis

.

I have no idea why you came to such a conclusion. There is one church consisting of both remnant Jews, Gentiles, and end time Jews, and the New Covenant goes to the second coming, not the end of some Gentile church; it includes the Jews of the last seven years.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Along with Jerusalem.........:idea:

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com,
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

Revelation 17:
16 And the ten Horns which thou saw and the Beast, these shall be hating the harlot,
and They shall be making Her desolate and naked,
and the fleshes of Her they shall be eating
and shall be burning Her in fire.

17 For the GOD gives into Their hearts to do the mind of Him, and to do One mind and to give Their kingdom to the Beast
until shall be being finished the words of the GOD.

Revelation 18:
18 And they cried, observing the smoke of Her burning, saying, "What is like to the great City?"
19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried, lamenting, weeping and mourning, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships in the sea, out of Her preciousness,
for to one hour was She was desolated.
==============================
................................

302660_c2760f5cc7d57e7088338ce451af705b.jpg

Your "house" in Mt. 23 is the temple. You can still walk on the same streets Jesus walked on today.

Rev. 18 is end times. Some even believe this is the city of Rome. Others believe it is modern Jerusalem.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Josephus' reporting was remarkably objective. Though a Jew himself, he did not hesitate to indict his countrymen:

It is therefore impossible to go distinctly over every instance of these men's iniquity. I shall therefore speak my mind here at once briefly: - That neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world.

Wars of the Jews, Book V, Chapter X, Section 5

God always starts cleaning in His own house first.
 
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BABerean2

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I have no idea why you came to such a conclusion. There is one church consisting of both remnant Jews, Gentiles, and end time Jews, and the New Covenant goes to the second coming, not the end of some Gentile church; it includes the Jews of the last seven years.

There is no 7 year tribulation period in the Bible.
It can be produced by adding together two of the references to the 42 months in the Book of Revelation, or by taking Daniel 9:27 out of its New Covenant context.


.
 
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