Death must come first.

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Death must come before life.

One must die to the old nature before the new nature can grow. Christ came to free us from our fallen nature’s, but death is the only thing that can end the nature’s we inherited from Adam. This is why death must come first.

This death that Christ died on the cross was not to appease a infinite wrath in God toward mankind. It was to take mankind to and through death so man could be born again, could be re-created in righteousness, be given the Divine Nature as the nature of his life. Where it would be as natural to live in righteousness is Adam’s fallen nature was natural to live in unrighteousness. This exchange is done by believing and having faith in what Christ accomplished on the cross for us. But we must want to die to everything of the old nature, than with the faith of the heart turn to Christ for the operation of God in us. This is a constant turning to Him moment by moment, second by second as we go through our day. It is a continual faith pointed towards Him to live His life in and through us.... For the just shall live by faith.

For just as we all have received the Spirit by the hearing with faith, in just the same way are we to walk... By the hearing with faith. Faith in the operation of God in us. This is the simplicity of the Gospel of God.... It all comes through the faith of the heart turned towards God....

Be blessed all that would be willing to ask God about the simplicity of the Gospel of Christ, Not me
 
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AlexDTX

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Death must come before life.
Well said. This is the foundation of the new birth.

Many times death is referred to as the enemy in the NT, but this needs clarification. God created death before Adam and Eve fell. Death is the instrument of regeneration. In order for physical growth to occur, cells need to die and multiply in new forms so fetus becomes baby, baby becomes child, child becomes youth, youth becomes adult.

After adulthood, death in regeneration was designed to maintain the body through continuous replication. However, the fall of Adam caused regeneration to err ever so slightly. Death then became the destruction of the body as replication was slightly off with each new cycle of replication. Consequently we have aging instead of maintenance. Similar to making copies of copies causes image deterioration in photographs.

Because we were made to regenerate with death preceding the regeneration, this is our salvation. For the spirits of angels and demons do not regenerate, but are the same forever, thus do not die. We, however, are able to have our spirits die with Christ so we may regenerate, resurrect, with Christ in the new birth.

When I first read the Lord of the Rings, Tolkien, speaking through Gandalf, said that the death of man was actually a gift. As a Christian, I now understand what Tolkien meant.
 
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When I first read the Lord of the Rings, Tolkien, speaking through Gandalf, said that the death of man was actually a gift. As a Christian, I now understand what Tolkien meant

So true;

For scripture says God put an Angel before the Tree of Life to keep Adam from eating from it and living forever in his fallen state. For God knew that since Adam fell, now the only way for redemption was through Adam dying and being born again.

Be blessed in Christ, Not me
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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This death that Christ died on the cross was not to appease a infinite wrath in God toward mankind. It was to take mankind to and through death so man could be born again, could be re-created in righteousness, be given the Divine Nature as the nature of his life.


I find it beneficial to ponder the mystery of our unity in solidarity with Christ that allows us to go with him through death. And then he also goes with us as we realize his divine nature living in us.
 
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AlexDTX

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I find it beneficial to ponder the mystery of our unity in solidarity with Christ that allows us to go with him through death. And then he also goes with us as we realize his divine nature living in us.
Well said.
 
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I find it beneficial to ponder the mystery of our unity in solidarity with Christ that allows us to go with him through death. And then he also goes with us as we realize his divine nature living in us.

Yes! Such a blessing indeed it is to ponder our union with Christ. That He might become more and we become less.

Be most blessed in Christ as you do, Not me
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Just got woke to New Covenant understanding of Jesus death even though I have heard it for like 60 years.

Jesus died to ratify a New Covenant. His blood and death validated that covenant.

Hebrews 9
16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.

Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Luke 22:20
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

2 Corinthians 3:6
5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Hebrews 8:6
But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

We participate in that covenant.

.
 
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Just got woke to New Covenant understanding of Jesus death even though I have heard it for like 60 years.

Jesus died to ratify a New Covenant. His blood and death validated that covenant.

Hebrews 9
16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.

Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Luke 22:20
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

2 Corinthians 3:6
5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Hebrews 8:6
But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

We participate in that covenant.

.

As we get closer to Christ He does make the truths of our salvation more real and alive in us.

Blessings for your increase, Not me
 
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aiki

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Death must come before life.

I wonder if it might not be better to say that life comes through death. This is what Christ seems to be saying in Matthew 16:24-25. I do, though, think you've got the order of things right.

One must die to the old nature before the new nature can grow. Christ came to free us from our fallen nature’s, but death is the only thing that can end the nature’s we inherited from Adam. This is why death must come first.

The important thing about dying to Self, to the "old man," is to understand that our death to him has already been accomplished for us in Christ. We were crucified with him some 2000 years ago at Calvary.

Galatians 2:20
Galatians 5:24
Galatians 6:14
Romans 6:6
Colossians 3:3

For the truly born-again disciple of Christ, death to the "old man" is present fact, not a possible future reality. What remains is for us to believe it, by faith to "reckon" it so (Romans 6:11) and to live accordingly.

No man can crucify himself, you see. Not physically and not spiritually. We are too weak, too governed by Self, by the carnal "old man," to win free of him on our own. God must act on our behalf to do for us what we are impotent to do for ourselves. And so He has. We are cleansed from sin by the shed blood of Christ but we are free of the power of sin by the cross of Christ. His cross holds the "old man" powerless to cause us to sin. What an incredibly important truth for the born-again believer to grasp!

This death that Christ died on the cross was not to appease a infinite wrath in God toward mankind.

Are you sure about this? I read that this is exactly what Christ's death on the cross was for.

John 3:36
36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.


Romans 5:8-9
8 But God demonstrates his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


Isaiah 53:5-6
But He was for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all
.

This exchange is done by believing and having faith in what Christ accomplished on the cross for us.

By faith, "reckoning it so" is very important. But in the last half of Romans 6, Paul talks, not about believing, but about surrender, about yielding to God as his "slave of righteousness" (Romans 6:13-22). Reckoning and yielding to God go hand-in-hand. One cannot properly enter into the truth of one's co-crucifixion with Christ without constant surrender to Him.

But we must want to die to everything of the old nature, than with the faith of the heart turn to Christ for the operation of God in us.

But no man has this desire within himself naturally (Ephesians 5:29). It must come from God. Wanting to die to the "old man" is something God brings to pass in us. (Philippians 2:13) Urging a believer, then, to desire to die to the "old man" is like urging a man to desire to crucify himself literally on a wooden cross. Who would want to do such a thing? It's incredibly painful and, in the end, physically impossible. So, too, dying to one's Self, to the old carnal nature that once governed one's living. In and of ourselves, crucifying the "old man" is too painful, and, in the end, quite impossible. One cannot crucify Self by an effort of Self. And so God never tells us in His word to self-crucify, but only to trust that we have already "died" - spiritually - with Christ. It is only because this is so, because God has put to death our "old man" for us, that we are able to desire to live in the truth of our co-crucifixion with the Saviour.

This is a constant turning to Him moment by moment, second by second as we go through our day.

Amen! This is the "key to everything." Not I, but Christ. I must decrease that he might increase.

It is a continual faith pointed towards Him to live His life in and through us.... For the just shall live by faith.

Amen!

For just as we all have received the Spirit by the hearing with faith, in just the same way are we to walk... By the hearing with faith. Faith in the operation of God in us. This is the simplicity of the Gospel of God.... It all comes through the faith of the heart turned towards God....

Which the apostle Paul called "reckoning it so." (Romans 6:11) The word "reckon" could be translated "count on," which is to say, "regard as true."

When teaching believers about this matter, I like to urge them to remember that death to the "old man" is merely a stepping-stone to the abundant life God offers to them in Christ. Our crucifixion with Christ is not an end in itself. As you said at the beginning of your OP, death to one's Self is merely the doorway through which the Christian encounters fully the life of Christ.

Blessings.

Aiki.
 
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Studying about His divine nature so this thread is very helpful Thanks!

Blessings with and in your studies. May God fill you with all wisdom and knowledge of Himself by experience.

Be most blessed as you search into the Mystery of Christ in us our Hope of Glory, Not me
 
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joshua 1 9

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One must die to the old nature before the new nature can grow.
Yes daily we have to die to self so we can live for God. Often we run into people that want to die. So we have to explain to them how we die to self so we can live for God and this is exactly what they were wanting to do. It is amazing how fast a sad depressed person turns into a happy person that has found their freedom in Christ.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Studying about His divine nature so this thread is very helpful Thanks!
We did a study at church about the mind of Christ and all the qualities that make up the mind of Christ. There are a lot, hundreds of scriptures that talk about this.
 
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Yes daily we have to die to self so we can live for God. Often we run into people that want to die. So we have to explain to them how we die to self so we can live for God and this is exactly what they were wanting to do. It is amazing how fast a sad depressed person turns into a happy person that has found their freedom in Christ.

This learning to know what it means to die to self is the doorway into a true spiritual walk before God. This truth is the foundation of our salvation in Christ:

“When Christ died we died”

This truth learned by experience to any degree opens up the walking in newness of life, which is a life of faith, which is also called in scripture walking in the spirit, both being different words describing the same truth.

If it helps with the seeing of this truth; ask yourself how you could be guaranteed to never ever sin again from now to all eternity?

There is but one way and that is if you were to die, for;

“he that has died is freed from sin”

For to the degree a believer apprehends there death in Christ, to that degree will they be set free from self....Self being the seat of all sin.

For when one would willingly, really and truly die, rather than sin, freedom from sin is right around the corner.

Be most blessed in your searching into these truths for in them is joy unspeakable.

In Christ, Not me
 
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It can be difficult to understand/accept. Some time ago, noticed that Bezaleel in Exe 31 was given the Spirit of the Lord. Now see it more often.

It is true that spiritual truths can be hard to understand, but thanks be to God for His promise to perfect that which concerns us.

So our job is to desire (abide) His job is to teach and cause growth.

Be blessed in your growing, as we all that are His are, Not me
 
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