CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
It isn't me that dislikes and rejects the Jews, it is the Lord. Matthew 8:12, Revelation 3:9

The Jewish people are about 50% atheists, the rest a variety of false religions and only .05% are Christian. They are no longer God's chosen people. Matthew 21:43
This makes them, in God's sight, His enemies and many prophesies say that He will virtually destroy them on His Day of fiery wrath. Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 21:11-14, Ezekiel 21:1-7, +

For the record, I disagree. God has not abandoned Israel.
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
For the record, I disagree. God has not abandoned Israel.


Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Throughout the history of Israel there were two different groups of Israelites, one faithful, and one not.

Many modern Christians cannot tell the difference between the faithful remnant, and the Baal worshippers. The answer is found below.


1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,560
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,691.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
For the record, I disagree. God has not abandoned Israel.
Right; He has not abandoned the House of Israel, just the House of Judah.
He sent His Son to save the House of Israel, Matthew 15:24 and Jesus was successful. We Christians are the result, grafted into the Israel of God.

The teaching that the Jews are all of Israel is not correct, thats impossible as true Israel is every faithful Christian, who are mainly descended from the Northern tribes of Israel, still scattered among the nations and as many as the sands of the sea.

I see that you agree with BaBerean's post above.
So you know that most Jews are ungodly and will be judged and punished, only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27
These few Jews will then join their Christian brethren and we all live in the holy Land. As Jeremiah 12:14-16, Jeremiah 50:4-5, +, tell us.
Any other belief about the end times is false and unbiblical.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Right; He has not abandoned the House of Israel, just the House of Judah.
He sent His Son to save the House of Israel, Matthew 15:24 and Jesus was successful. We Christians are the result, grafted into the Israel of God.

The teaching that the Jews are all of Israel is not correct, thats impossible as true Israel is every faithful Christian, who are mainly descended from the Northern tribes of Israel, still scattered among the nations and as many as the sands of the sea.

I may have it backwards, but I thought that the House of Judah and the House of Benjamin were those in Jerusalem. Paul was from the House of Benjamin, and Jesus was from the House of Judah. So isn't the House of Israel the other 10 tribes, which would include the Samaritans?
 
Upvote 0

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Right; He has not abandoned the House of Israel, just the House of Judah.
He sent His Son to save the House of Israel, Matthew 15:24 and Jesus was successful. We Christians are the result, grafted into the Israel of God.

The teaching that the Jews are all of Israel is not correct, thats impossible as true Israel is every faithful Christian, who are mainly descended from the Northern tribes of Israel, still scattered among the nations and as many as the sands of the sea.

I see that you agree with BaBerean's post above.
So you know that most Jews are ungodly and will be judged and punished, only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27
These few Jews will then join their Christian brethren and we all live in the holy Land. As Jeremiah 12:14-16, Jeremiah 50:4-5, +, tell us.
Any other belief about the end times is false and unbiblical.

Paul writes Romans 11 to us Gentiles to not get too cocky about Israel. They are still the natural branches, and we Gentiles are the wild branches. The Jews' partial blindness will not last forever.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,560
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,691.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
I may have it backwards, but I thought that the House of Judah and the House of Benjamin were those in Jerusalem. Paul was from the House of Benjamin, and Jesus was from the House of Judah. So isn't the House of Israel the other 10 tribes, which would include the Samaritans?
The House of Judah consists of Judah and Benjamin, plus some of Levi.
The House of Israel are the other ten tribes, who were taken into exile 135 years before Judah was exiled to Babylon.
Israel has been lost to history, as God planned it, but He knows who they are. Amos 9:9
Jesus came to save them and we Christians are the result.

The Jews calling themselves Israel, is a deception and has caused much confusion. But 'rapture to heaven' believers have to think they are the only Israel, who will face Tribulation, while the Church sits in heaven. Shockingly bad deception and confusion!
 
Upvote 0

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
The House of Judah consists of Judah and Benjamin, plus some of Levi.
The House of Israel are the other ten tribes, who were taken into exile 135 years before Judah was exiled to Babylon.
Israel has been lost to history, as God planned it, but He knows who they are. Amos 9:9
Jesus came to save them and we Christians are the result.

The Jews calling themselves Israel, is a deception and has caused much confusion. But 'rapture to heaven' believers have to think they are the only Israel, who will face Tribulation, while the Church sits in heaven. Shockingly bad deception and confusion!

I see no scriptural evidence that there is some secret rapture years before the second coming.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,560
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,691.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Paul writes Romans 11 to us Gentiles to not get too cocky about Israel. They are still the natural branches, and we Gentiles are the wild branches. The Jews' partial blindness will not last forever.
Paul made it quite clear: The natural branches are cut off and can only be grafted back by faith in Jesus, Romans 11:20
 
Upvote 0

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Paul made it quite clear: The natural branches are cut off and can only be grafted back by faith in Jesus, Romans 11:20

Of course. Let me ask you what you believe about Revelation 7 and the saints that come out of the Great Tribulation. Do you believe that is future? If so, who do you believe will be newly saved after the GT starts? Jew or Gentile?
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,560
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,691.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Of course. Let me ask you what you believe about Revelation 7 and the saints that come out of the Great Tribulation. Do you believe that is future? If so, who do you believe will be newly saved after the GT starts? Jew or Gentile?
This is way off the thread topic.
Yes, Rev 7 is future.
No one, or very few will be saved during the GT. Revelation 13:8

My belief, backed by the Prophetic Word, is the next event will be the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, the Sixth Seal, that will commence all the things that must happen before Jesus Returns. Including the final 'week', seven years, of Daniel.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The Jews' partial blindness will not last forever.

Are all of the Jews partially blinded in Romans 11, or are part blinded, and part are not blinded?

The answer is found below.


Rom 11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.



If we want modern Orthodox Jews to be saved we should show them the "suffering servant" of Isaiah chapter 53, and the New Covenant promised to Israel, and Judah, in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and the timeline of Daniel 9. These three passages prove that the baby born in a manger is the Messiah promised in the Hebrew scriptures. Why have we never seen this simple three-part Gospel message on Christian television?

The claim that all Jews will come to faith during a future time is part of the problem. Based on Matthew 25:1-13, and Acts of the Apostles 3:19, and Romans 9:8, and Romans 9:27, and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, only a remnant will be saved, based on faith, rather than bloodline.

.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
This is way off the thread topic.
Yes, Rev 7 is future.
No one, or very few will be saved during the GT. Revelation 13:8

My belief, backed by the Prophetic Word, is the next event will be the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, the Sixth Seal, that will commence all the things that must happen before Jesus Returns. Including the final 'week', seven years, of Daniel.

and @BABerean2

The Book of Revelation is not written in chronological order, but in the order of John's visions. According to Romans 11, the "partially blinded" Jews IMO means that the early church was made up of all the elect remnant of Jews of the time that came to Christ before Acts 10, however long that was (not necessarily 34 AD as some charts conclude). The remaining Jews were then "hard to convert" after the time of the fullness of the Gentiles had started by Peter's vision, and God removed the status of "unclean" from the Gentiles. (Paul didn't immediately go into ministry, but was instructed by the other apostles for a few years.)

When the Antichrist appears on the scene, it is the end of the fullness of the Gentiles being fulfilled, and all Gentiles that "did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." The blindness of Jews will be gone so all Israel may be saved to join Christ's Church (there is only one).

Those Gentiles that come out of the Great Tribulation and martyred, were in the Church to begin with when the GT started, but because of false doctrines according the the letters of the seven churches (Thyatira, Sardis and Laodecia), there will be many who will basically have to stand up for Christ and actually "keep His Word" (like the Philadelphian type Christians, who like the Israelites in the plagues of Egypt will be safe and protected supernaturally), and be martyred. The shift is now the last week (7 years) for national Israel.

Yes, there were paradigms of this time before in history, including the 7 year revolt of 167 BC to 160 BC, the second revolt of 66 AD to 73 AD, and possibly a 7 year concentrated effort between 1933 and 1944 of the 2 WW.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Didn't Josephus view Daniel and the Olivet Discourse as fulfilled?

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived
=============================
Another preterist commentary:

The Amillennial Preterism of Clement of Alexandria [A.D. 162]
Clement of Alexandria was a second century Christian apologist. Even though his theology was greatly influenced by Greek philosophy, his work was valuable in addressing the growing Gnostic heresies of that time.
He addresses the Daniel’s 70 week prophecy, the Olivet Discourse, and places the timing of John’s banishment under Emperor Nero.

Clement clearly places the fulfillment of Daniel’s 70 week prophecy in 70 AD.

“From the captivity at Babylon, which took place in the time of Jeremiah the prophet, was fulfilled what was spoken by Daniel the prophet as follows: “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to seal sins, and to wipe out and make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. Know therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the word commanding an answer to be given, and Jerusalem to be built, to Christ the Prince, are seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and the street shall be again built, and the wall; and the times shall be expended. And after the sixty-two weeks the anointing shall be overthrown, and judgment shall not be in him; and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the coming Prince. And they shall be destroyed in a flood, and to the end of the war shall be cut off by: desolations. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the middle of the week the sacrifice and oblation shall be taken away; and in the holy place shall be the abomination of desolations, and until the consummation of time shall the consummation be assigned for desolation. And in the midst of the week shall he make the incense of sacrifice cease, and of the wing of destruction, even till the consummation, like the destruction of the oblation.” That the temple accordingly was built in seven weeks, is evident; for it is written in Esdras.

And thus Christ became King of the Jews, reigning in Jerusalem in the fulfillment of the seven weeks. And in the sixty and two weeks the whole of Judaea was quiet, and without wars. And Christ our Lord, “the Holy of Holies,” having come and fulfilled the vision and the prophecy, was anointed in His flesh by the Holy Spirit of His Father.
In those “sixty and two weeks,” as the prophet said, and “in the one week,” was He Lord.
The half of the week Nero held sway, and in the holy city Jerusalem placed the abomination; and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius. And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the holy place. And that such are the facts of the case, is clear to him that is able to understand, as the prophet said.” – (Stromata – Book I Chapter 21, The Jewish Institutions and Laws of Far Higher Antiquity Than the Philosophy of the Greeks).

This clarified even more by his description of the Abomination of Desolation in Matthew 24:15.

“We have still to add to our chronology the following, – I mean the days which Daniel indicates from the desolation of Jerusalem, the seven years and seven months of the reign of Vespasian. For the two years are added to the seventeen months and eighteen days of Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius; and the result is three years and six months, which is “the half of the week,” as Daniel the prophet said. For he said that there were two thousand three hundred days from the time that the abomination of Nero stood in the holy city, till its destruction. For thus the declaration, which is subjoined, shows: “How long shall be the vision, the sacrifice taken away, the abomination of desolation, which is given, and the power and the holy place shall be trodden under foot? And he said to him, Till the evening and morning, two thousand three hundred days, and the holy place shall be taken away.” (Daniel 8:13-14). These two thousand three hundred days, then, make six years four months, during the half of which Nero held sway, and it was half a week; and for a half, Vespasian with Otho, Galba, and Vitellius reigned. And on this account Daniel says, “Blessed is he that cometh to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.” (Daniel 12:12) For up to these days was war, and after them it ceased. And this number is demonstrated from a subsequent chapter, which is as follows: “And from the time of the change of continuation, and of the giving of the abomination of desolation, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.” (Daniel 12:11-12)” – (Stromata – Book I Chapter 21, The Jewish Institutions and Laws of Far Higher Antiquity Than the Philosophy of the Greeks).

Clearly, Clement sees the main prophecies of Daniel as having been fulfilled in the first century. He also ties the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24:15 to the same event. Regarding the fulfillment of the Olivet Discourse, Clement gives the following exposition.

“But our Master did not prophesy after this fashion; but, as I have already said, being a prophet by an inborn and every-flowing Spirit, and knowing all things at all times, He confidently set forth, plainly as I said before, sufferings, places, appointed times, manners, limits. Accordingly, therefore, prophesying concerning the temple, He said: “See ye these buildings? Verily I say to you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another which shall not be taken away [Matt. 24:3]; and this generation shall not pass until the destruction begin [Matt. 24:34]. . . .” And in like manner He spoke in plain words the things that were straightway to happen, which we can now see with our eyes, in order that the accomplishment might be among those to whom the word was spoken.” (Clementine Homilia, 3:15. See Roberts and Donaldson, Ante-Nicene Fathers, 8:241.)

Clement tells us that the events Jesus prophesied of were to happen within that generation, and that they could see the accomplishment of those things with their own eyes. While Clement doesn’t expound much on John’s Apocalypse, he does support the preterist view of both Daniel and the Olivet Discourse, all without mentioning a millennium.

Clement was also the first church father to give a clue to the time frame in which John wrote the Book of Revelation.

“And to give you confidence, when you have thus truly repented, that there remains for you a trustworthy hope of salvation, hear a story that is no mere story, but a true account of John the apostle that has been handed down and preserved in memory. When after the death of the tyrant he removed from the island of’ Patmos to Ephesus, he used to journey by request to the neighboring districts of the Gentiles, in some places to appoint bishops, in others to regulate whole churches, in others to set among the clergy some one man, it may be, of those indicated by the Spirit.” (Clement – Quis Salvus Dives? – Section 42)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Didn't Josephus view Daniel and the Olivet Discourse as fulfilled?

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived
=============================
Another preterist commentary:

The Amillennial Preterism of Clement of Alexandria [A.D. 162]
Clement of Alexandria was a second century Christian apologist. Even though his theology was greatly influenced by Greek philosophy, his work was valuable in addressing the growing Gnostic heresies of that time.
He addresses the Daniel’s 70 week prophecy, the Olivet Discourse, and places the timing of John’s banishment under Emperor Nero.

Clement clearly places the fulfillment of Daniel’s 70 week prophecy in 70 AD.

“From the captivity at Babylon, which took place in the time of Jeremiah the prophet, was fulfilled what was spoken by Daniel the prophet as follows: “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to seal sins, and to wipe out and make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. Know therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the word commanding an answer to be given, and Jerusalem to be built, to Christ the Prince, are seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and the street shall be again built, and the wall; and the times shall be expended. And after the sixty-two weeks the anointing shall be overthrown, and judgment shall not be in him; and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the coming Prince. And they shall be destroyed in a flood, and to the end of the war shall be cut off by: desolations. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the middle of the week the sacrifice and oblation shall be taken away; and in the holy place shall be the abomination of desolations, and until the consummation of time shall the consummation be assigned for desolation. And in the midst of the week shall he make the incense of sacrifice cease, and of the wing of destruction, even till the consummation, like the destruction of the oblation.” That the temple accordingly was built in seven weeks, is evident; for it is written in Esdras.
And thus Christ became King of the Jews, reigning in Jerusalem in the fulfillment of the seven weeks. And in the sixty and two weeks the whole of Judaea was quiet, and without wars. And Christ our Lord, “the Holy of Holies,” having come and fulfilled the vision and the prophecy, was anointed in His flesh by the Holy Spirit of His Father. In those “sixty and two weeks,” as the prophet said, and “in the one week,” was He Lord. The half of the week Nero held sway, and in the holy city Jerusalem placed the abomination; and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius. And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the holy place. And that such are the facts of the case, is clear to him that is able to understand, as the prophet said.” – (Stromata – Book I Chapter 21, The Jewish Institutions and Laws of Far Higher Antiquity Than the Philosophy of the Greeks).

This clarified even more by his description of the Abomination of Desolation in Matthew 24:15.

“We have still to add to our chronology the following, – I mean the days which Daniel indicates from the desolation of Jerusalem, the seven years and seven months of the reign of Vespasian. For the two years are added to the seventeen months and eighteen days of Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius; and the result is three years and six months, which is “the half of the week,” as Daniel the prophet said. For he said that there were two thousand three hundred days from the time that the abomination of Nero stood in the holy city, till its destruction. For thus the declaration, which is subjoined, shows: “How long shall be the vision, the sacrifice taken away, the abomination of desolation, which is given, and the power and the holy place shall be trodden under foot? And he said to him, Till the evening and morning, two thousand three hundred days, and the holy place shall be taken away.” (Daniel 8:13-14). These two thousand three hundred days, then, make six years four months, during the half of which Nero held sway, and it was half a week; and for a half, Vespasian with Otho, Galba, and Vitellius reigned. And on this account Daniel says, “Blessed is he that cometh to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.” (Daniel 12:12) For up to these days was war, and after them it ceased. And this number is demonstrated from a subsequent chapter, which is as follows: “And from the time of the change of continuation, and of the giving of the abomination of desolation, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.” (Daniel 12:11-12)” – (Stromata – Book I Chapter 21, The Jewish Institutions and Laws of Far Higher Antiquity Than the Philosophy of the Greeks).

Clearly, Clement sees the main prophecies of Daniel as having been fulfilled in the first century. He also ties the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24:15 to the same event. Regarding the fulfillment of the Olivet Discourse, Clement gives the following exposition.

Josephus was not a Christian, but a Jewish historian, even though he did mention Jesus and even described him.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Josephus was not a Christian, but a Jewish historian, even though he did mention Jesus and even described him.
He was born during the period of Acts and about 30yrs before the Jewish Wars started, therefore would have witnessed the events leading up to 70AD. [and what is your view of Clement and his commentary I posted?]
I have a thread on Josephus for those interested:
JOSEPHUS, OLIVET DISCOURSE AND BOOK OF REVELATION
Josephus really intrigues me.
There is a question now whether or not he had access to a copy of Revelation based on some of his writings concerning 70ad Jerusalem?
I think this would make for a fascinating discussion, whether one is preterist, futurist, amill, etc.

First off, like the Apostle Paul, he is said to have been both a Jew and Pharisee, according to sources
If so, wouldn't he have had some contact with some of the Apostles or Disciples of Christ at one time?
Discuss..........

Flavius Josephus | Jewish priest, scholar, and historian


Flavius Josephus, original name Joseph Ben Matthias, (born ad 37/38, Jerusalem—died ad 100, Rome), Jewish priest, scholar, and historian who wrote valuable works on the Jewish revolt of 66–70 and on earlier Jewish history. His major books are History of the Jewish War (75–79), The Antiquities of the Jews (93), and Against Apion.

Flavius Josephus was born of an aristocratic priestly family in Jerusalem. According to his own account, he was a precocious youth who by the age of 14 was consulted by high priests in matters of Jewish law. At age 16 he undertook a three-year sojourn in the wilderness with the hermit Bannus, a member of one of the ascetic Jewish sects that flourished in Judaea around the time of Christ.

Returning to Jerusalem, he joined the Pharisees—a fact of crucial importance in understanding his later collaboration with the Romans. The Pharisees, despite the unflattering portrayal of them in the New Testament, were for the most part intensely religious Jews and adhered to a strict though nonliteral observance of the Torah.

History of the Destruction of Jerusalem & Josephan Studies Archives


Flavius Josephus, a Jewish priest and Pharisee, was put in command of the national resistance in Galilee at the time of Israel's revolt against Rome. When he was captured at Jotapata; his life was spared upon his prediction to rival Vespasian, that the Roman general would soon become emperor. Upon the fulfillment of this prophecy shortly thereafter, he was commissioned to provide his captors with a history of the Jewish people, although he initially wrote a history of the Roman-Jewish war suited for both a Roman and a Jewish audience. His works, disputed though they may be regarding accuracy, are an indispensable source on the history of Roman Judea.
John 1720 said:
Hello LittleLambofJesus,
You ask if Flavius Josephus was familiar with the Apocalypse of John?
  • No, I don't believe Josephus ever read Revelation. He was not a Christian and he wrote Antiquities in the 13th year of the reign of Domitian, about AD93. While John also wrote Revelation from Patmos during his banishment there by Domitian that was not until AD 96. Since it was written to the seven Churches of Asia Minor (modern day Turkey) and he was in Rome he probably died before it even circulated that far.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mkgal1
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Paul didn't immediately go into ministry, but was instructed by the other apostles for a few years.)
Just a correction of this (because I love this fact):

Galatians 1:1 - This letter is from Paul, an apostle. I was not appointed by any group of people or any human authority, but by Jesus Christ himself and by God the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead.

Galatians 1:12 ~ I received my message from no human source, and no one taught me. Instead, I received it by direct revelation from Jesus Christ.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
When the Antichrist appears on the scene, it is the end of the fullness of the Gentiles being fulfilled, and all Gentiles that "did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Based on the words of Christ below, the times of the Gentiles ends at the future Second Coming of Christ.

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


The New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.
Therefore, it cannot end before the Second Coming of Christ.

.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
and @BABerean2
The Book of Revelation is not written in chronological order, but in the order of John's visions.

Yes, there were paradigms of this time before in history, including the 7 year revolt of 167 BC to 160 BC, the second revolt of 66 AD to 73 AD, and possibly a 7 year concentrated effort between 1933 and 1944 of the 2 WW.
Hello BAB and CL.
And also badly translated...........

What about Revelation 11:1-2 SANCTUARY, COURT AND HOLY CITY

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the GOD and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>[Priests/Lavar/Altar of Sacrifice] outside of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<ἔκβαλε/ekbale <1544> out-side<1854> and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Gentiles/Nations.
And the holy City they shall be treading<3961>forty two months

Galatians 4:30
but what saith the Writing? 'be casting out!<ἔκβαλε/ekbale <1544> the Maid-servant/paidiskhn <3814> and her son...
[Genesis 21:10 Adam expelled from Garden]
============================
LLoJ's attempted translation of Revelation using the major Greek texts in 2008.............

Revelation chapt 11 verse study
Oct 13, 2008.

NRC1RMycmijxrQiU4xPqnD1o.jpeg

===================

I could only find 2 versions that have "cast out" in that verse:

Revelation 11:2 biblehub

Douay-Rheims Bible

But the court, which is without the temple, cast out, and measure it not: because it is given unto the Gentiles, and the holy city they shall tread under foot two and forty months:
Darby Bible Translation
And the court which [is] without the temple cast out, and measure it not; because it has been given [up] to the nations, and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty-two months.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Based on the words of Christ below, the times of the Gentiles ends at the future Second Coming of Christ.

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


The New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.
Therefore, it cannot end before the Second Coming of Christ.

.
Based on your interpretation that conclusion is drawn about His coming.

Isn't this a different topic than the preterist gap in the prophecy of Daniel? Or are you somehow making this fit into the 70 weeks?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Josephus was not a Christian, but a Jewish historian, even though he did mention Jesus and even described him.
As LLoJ already posted - Josephus was an eye-witness to what was going on in the first century. Does a person have to be of a particular stream of faith in order to report the news? IIRC - Josephus was trained in Scripture (but I'm not certain - nor should it really matter. Facts are facts and are unbiased truth).
 
Upvote 0