GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

Bob S

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That would probably be because you are so plainly and documentably hostile toward "Sabbath Salesmen," as you call them.
I called them that??? You are getting bolder with each post, too bad.

Do you really feel comfortable and justified in being so condescending and insulting?
Why are you not setting a better example?

If there's one thing I admire in another human being, it's omniscience and omnipresence.
That is something I really don't care to know.

This is a textbook example of an opinion. What does "the fact of the story" even mean, anyway? You say elsewhere that it was the tithe issue that first bothered you about Adventist doctrine. Talk about telling. So the solution is to relegate the tithing requirement to agricultural workers only, since the Bible doesn't specify other professions. And God is reduced to a partisan politician who has no regard for those who live off the land. How ridiculous.
I only know what scripture reveals. To add the tent maker, etc. to the people God asked to tithe is adding to scripture. Your statement was not very nice either. Have you not been told to turn the other cheek. It seems like you are practicing an eye for an eye except that you are gouging out the cheek with the eye. Go ahead and continue your tirade, I have broad shoulders and you are really a novist.


Any easy, opinionated conclusion to come to when one prefers to rob God.
Now if I didn't have broad shoulders I would probably hit the three lines at the bottom left of your post. Since I was a SDA for forty years I know how you think of those on the outside. I give because I love the Lord not because some church set a rule as to how much I HAVE to give. Your statement was hitting below the belt because you have no idea how much I contribute.

Malachi, Ch. 3
7Ever since the time of your ancestors you have turned away from my decrees and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you,” says the Lord Almighty.
“But you ask, ‘How are we to return?’
8“Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me.
“But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’
“In tithes and offerings. 9You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. 10Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. 11I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe,” says the Lord Almighty. 12“Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land,” says the Lord Almighty.
(The mention of livestock is conspicuous by its absence. Perhaps God "changed His mind" again and cut the ranchers a break.)
So is the tent maker. The account in Malachi was not the commandment my friend. Your comment made me chuckle. Your continual comments that try to belittle me are backfiring.

Then Jesus said to them, "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him.
Mark 12:17

Utter, selective, literalist baloney.
the real word is bologna. Don't I deserve the very best?

And now we're calling God a liar. Dark days.
"we're??? Speak for yourself.

Not a shred of Adventist doctrine depends upon the writings of Paul.

What 590 years? I just Googled "SDA 590 years," and I got absolutely nothing.

You might want to be looking for the man at the head of the woman.
Maybe because you were not concentrating on my post because you were trying to think of some derogatory statement to again belittle my posts, I would like to inform you that I didn't write those last seven paragraphs, sparow did. I stopped with: '"Bed time, will respond to the remainder tomorrow."

Got a bunch of egg on your face there brother.
 
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sparow

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But change was possible and a truckload of laws were abrogated. You are living in denial.

Your confusing the new covenant with the old covenant.

We know that's not true because over 600 laws were abrogated. What is it your missing?

Unless we are talking about the law of Christ which the law itself was based on.

Changed and that is a fact. No one is under the law of Moses anymore.

You did not clearly specify ultimately which law you are talking about. We are under the law of Christ.


<<But change was possible and a truckload of laws were abrogated. You are living in denial.>>



Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

God does change His mind or repents regarding Judgements; the new covenant is the result of such a repentance. Some examples of God repenting of a judgement is to increase the penalty.

Abrogate is not a word found in scripture; as a word we use it is a legal term and concept; to abrogate a Law another Law or decree would be required.

First Sunday Law enacted by Emperor Constantine -
March, 321 A.D.

This is the same emperor Who chaired the Council of Nicaea, the doctrine of the Trinity and the NT Cannon.

A couple of hundred years later the Papacy introduced Law that was as much civil as religious that not only made Sunday the day of worship but made Saturday Illegal. So in the Inquisitions preceding the Council of Trent, people were charged with Heresy and Judaism.

You maybe assuming that not keeping the commandments of God is the same as abrogating the commandments. I do not deny that the bulk of people deemed Christian do not keep the commandments of God, but the only authority to abrogate the Law of God, is Rome (the legs of Iron and the feet of iron and clay); God has not.

Daniel 7:25 (NKJV)
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

Matthew 5:18 (NKJV)
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

So the Law will not change until all is fulfilled; we will have a new heavens and a new earth before all is fulfilled, we will have the resurrection of the righteous, the millennium and the resurrection of the unrighteous and their second death, before all things are fulfilled.

Luke 16:16
16 The law and the prophets were preached until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing violently into it.

This doesn't mean anything is abrogated, it means the plan of salvation is moving forward, the Kingdom of God is being constructed; a higher standard is required, not a lesser one.

<<You did not clearly specify ultimately which law you are talking about. We are under the law of Christ. >>

Jesus is/was the God of the OT in human form; there isn't any reason for the Law to change other it is now under God's own administration which is different to Moses's administration.
 
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sparow

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So the seventh day is not the Sabbath of the the Lord, thy God?

Maybe English is not your first language; Keeping the seventh day doesn't necessarily mean keeping the day Holy; it doesn't necessarily mean in covenant with God, It could only mean resting or going to Church; and wait there is more.
 
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klutedavid

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<<But change was possible and a truckload of laws were abrogated. You are living in denial.>>



Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

God does change His mind or repents regarding Judgements; the new covenant is the result of such a repentance. Some examples of God repenting of a judgement is to increase the penalty.

Abrogate is not a word found in scripture; as a word we use it is a legal term and concept; to abrogate a Law another Law or decree would be required.

First Sunday Law enacted by Emperor Constantine -
March, 321 A.D.


This is the same emperor Who chaired the Council of Nicaea, the doctrine of the Trinity and the NT Cannon.

A couple of hundred years later the Papacy introduced Law that was as much civil as religious that not only made Sunday the day of worship but made Saturday Illegal. So in the Inquisitions preceding the Council of Trent, people were charged with Heresy and Judaism.

You maybe assuming that not keeping the commandments of God is the same as abrogating the commandments. I do not deny that the bulk of people deemed Christian do not keep the commandments of God, but the only authority to abrogate the Law of God, is Rome (the legs of Iron and the feet of iron and clay); God has not.

Daniel 7:25 (NKJV)
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

Matthew 5:18 (NKJV)
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

So the Law will not change until all is fulfilled; we will have a new heavens and a new earth before all is fulfilled, we will have the resurrection of the righteous, the millennium and the resurrection of the unrighteous and their second death, before all things are fulfilled.

Luke 16:16
16 The law and the prophets were preached until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing violently into it.

This doesn't mean anything is abrogated, it means the plan of salvation is moving forward, the Kingdom of God is being constructed; a higher standard is required, not a lesser one.

<<You did not clearly specify ultimately which law you are talking about. We are under the law of Christ. >>

Jesus is/was the God of the OT in human form; there isn't any reason for the Law to change other it is now under God's own administration which is different to Moses's administration.
You did not comment on over six hundred laws that are no longer in force?

Constantine did not change the Sabbath day?

You seem to be missing the point altogether.

If even one law is abolished in the law of Moses then the rest follow in like fashion.
 
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Bro. Dave Gardner

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to abrogate a Law another Law or decree would be required.
This simply is not true.
Maybe English is not your first language; Keeping the seventh day doesn't necessarily mean keeping the day Holy; it doesn't necessarily mean in covenant with God, It could only mean resting or going to Church
My English is fine, thank you. Saying that keeping the day doesn't require keeping it holy does, however, call your own command of the language into question since practically every English translation of the Bible uses the word "holy" or some unambiguous derivative thereof to describe how it is to be kept.
 
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Bob S

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Hebrews 7:12
For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

Malachi 3:6
6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

24 but because Jesus lives for ever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

The Plan of Salvation has gone through many changes as recorded in the Holy Writ. The plan was orchestrated before the foundation of the Earth. What we call changes were/are parts of the plan. God revealed to Jeremiah that the plans laws would change and of course they did and Paul was ordained by Jesus to reveal those changes. No longer are Jews under the Sinai covenant that ended at Calvary. All mankind are under the new and better covenant. It is amazing that some cannot comprehend the change and are still trying to observe the ritual laws of that covenant. Not only are they trying, but are also trying to convert others to do the same thing. In Matt 5 Jesus tells us He came to fulfill the law and prophets. Fulfill means to bring to an end and that is exactly what Jesus did. Those who tell new covenant believers that we are lawless are actually wearing a veil over their eyes. New covenant Christians abide by the Royal Law of Love. Morality is forever, it does not change.
 
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Dkh587

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Hebrews 7:12
For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

Malachi 3:6
6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

24 but because Jesus lives for ever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

The Plan of Salvation has gone through many changes as recorded in the Holy Writ. The plan was orchestrated before the foundation of the Earth. What we call changes were/are parts of the plan. God revealed to Jeremiah that the plans laws would change and of course they did and Paul was ordained by Jesus to reveal those changes. No longer are Jews under the Sinai covenant that ended at Calvary. All mankind are under the new and better covenant. It is amazing that some cannot comprehend the change and are still trying to observe the ritual laws of that covenant. Not only are they trying, but are also trying to convert others to do the same thing. In Matt 5 Jesus tells us He came to fulfill the law and prophets. Fulfill means to bring to an end and that is exactly what Jesus did. Those who tell new covenant believers that we are lawless are actually wearing a veil over their eyes. New covenant Christians abide by the Royal Law of Love. Morality is forever, it does not change.

Will you please show us the lawless covenant of love that you keep saying mankind is under?
 
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Bob S

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Maybe English is not your first language; Keeping the seventh day doesn't necessarily mean keeping the day Holy; it doesn't necessarily mean in covenant with God, It could only mean resting or going to Church; and wait there is more.
Hi Sparow, I believe it did. God required the Israelites to "keep the day Holy". The fact is they were never able to accomplish that requirement. God kept asking them, but just as it is today with those who think they must observe the Sabbath to keep it Holy, no one actually ever does. I have been around too many SDAs and know what comes out of their mouths on their day to believe any of them do the following: ‘If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the Lord’s holy day honourable,
and if you honour it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,
14 then you will find your joy in the Lord,
and I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land
and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.’
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken. Is58
 
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Bob S

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Will you please show us the lawless covenant of love that you keep saying mankind is under?
I can show you the Law of Love that we are under.

19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 if our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: we know it by the Spirit he gave us.
 
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Bro. Dave Gardner

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For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.
Perhaps he means the law pertaining only to the priesthood. Not an entirely unreasonable assumption, is it? Especially since the context of your isolated proof text seems to suggest it.

And, of course, there is always the possibility that the author of Scripture was here merely citing his own opinion, according to your own established hermeneutic.
 
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Bro. Dave Gardner

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I can show you the Law of Love that we are under.

19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 if our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: we know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Luke, Ch. 10
25On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27He answered, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ ; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Matthew 22:40

And this is why we need a Savior. The conditions of eternal life are the same now as they have always been and will always be: Perfect obedience to the commandments of God. This we have failed to do from birth. No amount of holiness we exhibit will gain Heaven for us because we have all already sinned and come short. Should we then go on sinning? The Great Apostle says:

"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid!"
Romans 6:15
 
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Bro. Dave Gardner

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Constantine did not change the Sabbath. The Catholic Church, in several stages, over time, "tranferred the solemnity" of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. It is a matter of history which, granted, is often truly what Napoleon referred to as "a pack of lies agreed upon." In this case, however, history has the advantage of the support of Scripture.
 
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Bro. Dave Gardner

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Why are you not setting a better example?
A virtual "I know you are but what am I?" That's your response?

So you really do not see that:
If you would read your Bible instead of parroting what SDAs tell you
is condescending and insulting? Really?
That is something I really don't care to know.
No, that is what is called "sarcasm."
I only know what scripture reveals.
The problem is the issues of life do not limit themselves to a literal sum of "what Scripture reveals."
Have you not been told to turn the other cheek. It seems like you are practicing an eye for an eye except that you are gouging out the cheek with the eye.
Are you here implying or perhaps even admitting that you have virtually struck me and injured or forcibly removed my eye? It seems you'll just say anything for dramatic effect.

And what in the world is a "novist?"
And "gouging out the cheek with the eye?"
Above my head, I guess.
Now if I didn't have broad shoulders I would probably hit the three lines at the bottom left of your post.
I have no idea what you're saying here (less cutesy abstract would be helpful), but if it's about robbing God, the concept originates with Scripture, not me.
Since I was a SDA for forty years I know how you think of those on the outside.
No, you most certainly do not. I have never even claimed to be an Adventist, nor to have the gift of mind-reading you exhibit. To read what you write, though, it would be very easy to conclude that you believe all Adventists are sub-human automaton's who have been hopelessly assimilated into some Gene Roddenberry-esque consortium with the sole purpose of undermining your point of view. You seem to approach Scripture with much the same method as that with which you write. Both seem to mean what you pick out as pertinent instead of their entire testimony.
Your statement was hitting below the belt because you have no idea how much I contribute.
It matters not one bit how much you contribute, because you teach others that they are under no obligation to tithe.

If you give 90% of what you have and teach 9, or 90, or 900 others that they have no responsibility to tithe, what has it profited you? How much effort have you expended in encouraging others to give 'out of love for the Lord' compared to teaching the absurdity of the 'old covenant Israelite tithing system?'
These are rhetorical questions (not intended to solicit an actual response).

The account in Malachi was not the commandment my friend.
What commandment? Who said anything about a (the?) commandment?
(Although there is a (admittedly "old covenant"--so I don't know if it counts here) commandment against stealing which, I would hope, ?covers/covered? robbery)
the real word is bologna. Don't I deserve the very best?
Of course, you do.

Okay, so, I'm trying my best to keep up here...
But are you now, after using the non-word "novist" and beginning your sentence with a lowercase letter, actually going to school me in spelling?
"Baloney" is the way many address ridiculous statements, I believe.
"we're??? Speak for yourself.
Just trying to be polite, so instead, I'll be blunt:
Implying that Abraham didn't do what God said He did seems a lot like what would appear to many as saying that God lied about it, unless this is attributable to one of those nifty Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free-type "Prophet's mere opinion" cards you have. Either way: Dark days.
Maybe because you were not concentrating on my post because you were trying to think of some derogatory statement to again belittle my posts, I would like to inform you that I didn't write those last seven paragraphs, sparow did. I stopped with: '"Bed time, will respond to the remainder tomorrow."

Got a bunch of egg on your face there brother.
Thanks for the egg, Brother.

Helpful Reminder:
A really effective way to indicate that you're quoting someone is to use the quoting tool built right into the forum web site (semicolons are generally for use in place of conjunctions).
 
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Bro. Dave Gardner

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I have been around too many SDAs and know what comes out of their mouths on their day to believe any of them do the following: ‘If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the Lord’s holy day honourable,
and if you honour it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,
14 then you will find your joy in the Lord,
and I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land
and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.’
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken. Is58

Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.
1 Kings 19:18

The fact that few are faithful has never been an acceptable reason for God to reject the whole.
 
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Dkh587

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I can show you the Law of Love that we are under.

19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 if our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: we know it by the Spirit he gave us.
I didn’t ask about a “law of love”.

Please show us this lawless new covenant of love with mankind you keep going on and on about. Don’t deflect and quote irrelevant verses, please.
 
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Bro. Dave Gardner

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How about we read the scripture more accurately.

Romans 7:12
So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

The law itself is holy, righteous and good. The commandment Paul referred to is also by definition; holy, righteous, and good.

You are attempting to divide the law and confusing that which is holy, righteous and good.
Yes, by all means, how about we argue about the HUGE difference between the words "righteous" and "just." Do you have some sort of anti-KJV thing? The word is translated "just" in a dozen or more translations on BibleHub. Was it that I added the "s?" Sorry.

No need to "attempt" to divide the law. Reformed scholars have agreed on that fact for centuries. Not that it isn't plain from the Bible itself.
 
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sparow

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You did not comment on over six hundred laws that are no longer in force?

Constantine did not change the Sabbath day?

You seem to be missing the point altogether.

If even one law is abolished in the law of Moses then the rest follow in like fashion.



You never showed where a command by Jesus abrogates any law. I have heard that the Pharisees had drawn 600 Laws from what we call THE LAW, the first five books; but it doesn't require individual abrogation to annul false doctrine, Doctrines of men, it only requires the command, “make he way straight, the kingdom of God is near”, also known as the Gospel of the kingdom. Not everything written in the Law is a Law; often what is written is how to keep the law; sometimes you will read hypotheticals, like if two men are behaving recklessly and if a woman passing by is injured the two men will receive the same injury, if she dies the men are put to death, an eye for an eye, a life for a life; if the woman was pregnant and has a miscarriage, I vaguely remember, the men had to pay a price of two goats and two bulls.


'”This doctrine was codified at the Council of Nicea in 325 C.E. with its many other anti-semitic regulations further separating the Jewish Sabbath from the Christian Sunday. In 363 C.E. the Council of Laodicea prohibited Christians from observing the Biblical Sabbath and encouraged them to work on Saturday and rest on the Sunday. The fact that this edict was issued with prohibitions indicates that Sunday worship was still not totally accepted by followers of Christ. “”


Constantine believe he had changed the day, as the papacy thought they had changed the day; did they change it? Yes and no. Yes they changed it for those who followed their direction; NO they did not change it for those who follow God, nor did they change the law by which they will be judged.


<<If even one law is abolished in the law of Moses then the rest follow in like fashion.>>

I have heard this before, is it a quote from the Bible; I have seen in the Bible, if one breaks one Law one breaks them all; in other words if one does not keep the Sabbath, judgement wise, one may as well have committed murder; all have sinned but some are called and chosen and some are not.

The law has not changed because sin has not changed; when the Law is abrogated sin ceases to exist.
 
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BobRyan

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PART 1/2

THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN - GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN


The very same topics that we discuss here was also discussed in the day of Jesus. The mainstream preachers of Christ's time all claimed to be Children of God because their claim was that they were the Children of Abraham right? This was their claim to being God's people.

JOHN 8:33-45

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say thou, Ye shall be made free?

They claimed belief on the God of Abraham, they claimed to be in bondage to no man. But what did Jesus tell them...............?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

There is more on this engagement between Jesus and the Mainstream God of Abraham preachers of His time in John 8.

Certainly the Pharisees studied the bible as it existed then. AS did Jesus.

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Yet these two factions, Jesus and the Mainstream preachers of His time had almost opposite understandings of the Bible.

It is fair to say not all Jews of that time had the same understanding as the Mainstream Preachers.

Luke 1:5-6 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

So there seems to be a trend here.

The Mainstream Preachers claimed to be God's people, they read God's Words, yet they "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions." (Matthew 15:3-9)

Yet there is no indication that Zacharias or Jesus did this and followed them.

So we have one example of understanding that was gained by study in obedience to the instructions in God's Word, ( Zacharias and Jesus)

And another example of study in disobedience to the instructions of God's Word. (Mainstream preachers of that time)

There were more than just Zacharias.

Matthew 2:1-2 1, Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Here is another example of people who had a completely different understanding than the Mainstream preachers of that time. Is it wrong to assume that they, like Zacharias, also studied in obedience to the instruction?

And Peter, which side of this topic did he fall on?

Acts 5:32-33 33, And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

Now why was it that the Jews sought to persecute Jesus and the prophets? It was because they refused to obey the instruction of God, and created their own instructions, and the other example did not.

So fast forward to today. We have a Mainstream Christian teaching that "Transgresses the Commandments of God by their own traditions and doctrines."

This is not a judgment, rather, a simple fact.

It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Sabbath Commandment and replace it with the Catholic Sabbath (Sunday worship). It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to create images of God in the likeness of some long haired men's shampoo model, transgressing the first and greatest commandment.
It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Food Laws, and create their own definition of clean and unclean.

So it seems that even today, if a person studies in obedience to God's simple instructions he see's the scripture one way.

If a person studies scripture in disobedience following the traditions and teachings of man in place of God's Word and to God's simple instructions, he sees the scripture in another way.

I believe what Peter taught, that the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Truth) is given to those who do not "Transgress the Commandments of God by their own religious doctrines and traditions.

But I also know from Peter and Jesus that this belief will infuriate "many" who come in Christ's/God's name.

23 "When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them."

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved."

My hope is that you might consider these words and understand.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (Is it evil or righteous to transgress the commandments of God by doctrines and traditions of men?)

20 For every one that doeth evil (Transgress God's Commandments by their own Traditions) hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Is this why the Mainstream preachers of Peters time set about to kill or silence Peter, so he wouldn't expose their transgression of God's Commandments?

21 But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest,.(let your light shine) that they are wrought in God.

So a circle complete once again. Those who live a doctrine created (wrought) by God have a different understanding than those who live a doctrine created by man who follow the traditions of man. The above was shared with me recently by a friend. I hope it was a blessing to you as it was for me.

Now the important question is who should we obey God or man...............?

The Jews (Pharisees/Lawyers) had placed so many restrictions on the Sabbath commandment through there man made traditions that it had become a burden to the people and was nearly impossible to keep (Luke 13:14; John 5:10-18; 9:16; etc.).

This was never how the Sabbath was to be kept. What did Jesus teach us about the Sabbath? Let's look to the Word of God.....

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love that fulfills God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly and willfully break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4). This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

God gives us the other six days to labor and work and do whatever we like. We worship God everyday but the 7th Day God says is a Holy day that God has made for His people. Jesus is the maker of this day. It is the "Lords Day" and God has commanded us to keep it Holy (Mark 2:27-28; Exodus 20:8-11). The Sabbath is a sign that we worship the only true God of creation (Ezekiel 20:12). We follow Jesus because we love him (John 14:15;15:10). Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us as we walk by faith in His Spirit.

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PART 2/2 GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN LINKED CLICK ME

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NOTE: PLEASE NO FLAMING OR GOADING; THIS IS A DISCUSSION THREAD ONLY FOR
SHARING GOD'S WORD IN LOVE; FRIENDLY DISCUSSION PLEASE!
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Thanks also to a friend (Studyman) from CC for the inspiration and contribution to this OP. May God bless you as you all as you seek him through His Word.

good point
 
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