When was hell created?

The Righterzpen said:

Of course they diminish the cross. The cross dealt with the wrath of God and if one does not really believe the wrath of God is real and that they deserve it; the cross is meaningless!

Click to expand...

And likewise hell also has some bearing on the wrath of God. If hell were such that people in it would just slowly burn up over time then there would probably less reason for it to exist outside of our known universe and people could perhaps one day fly a spaceship there and think they could rescue folks from it and thwart God in his efforts.

Lion Bravehart said:

We don't give the cross any power, the power is there regardless. It is the power of God unto salvation. Just because a few believe or a few does not believe does not mean that the cross losses its power. Just as if the Word of God does not lose its power if many or few believed it. Jesus Christ, not me, nor you nor anyone else, paid the price for us that we may live. And the Scriptures said, "For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ." So "therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life."

Let all the glory be unto Christ, and indeed it is.
L Bravehart

Click to expand...

1st, i was just echoing the sentiment of one saying others were diminishing the cross.. I do not believe that power can be given to or taken away from it.

2nd, you mentioned a verse that linked the actions of Adam to the Action of Jesus......Yet you seem to assume that Adam's actions doomed everyone to this hell without any belief or actions on their individual parts......Yet you seem to say that we have to do something before the Actions of the cross will benefit us. How do you make this assumption from the verse you mentioned? And would this not make one, who felt the cross had all power, rethink this notion, since it would have no effect without human intervention.....unlike the Action of Adam...

Lion Bravehart said:

What is in sheol? And where do you think they will be in the future?

Click to expand...

I don"t know, possibly a rift between the righteous and the unrighteous. The righteous will be welcome in heaven, and I think sheol/hades with the impious will be thrown in the lake of fire.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Ditto previous post - what we do does not change the crucifixion.

Likewise, also, why would anyone dare think that believing a false teaching would somehow "have a better chance of giving the Cross" anything at all, especially any "power" ? The false teachings lead to the wide road to destruction, not to eternal life.

Click to expand...

Yet without the truth, how can one determine the false? It is we who starts randomly dismissing things that sound strange, who are in danger of being like the Pharisee.......Blind and deceived.

RaymondG said:

Yet without the truth, how can one determine the false? It is we who starts randomly dismissing things that sound strange, who are in danger of being like the Pharisee.......Blind and deceived.

Click to expand...

I expect your group of "we" has trouble daily. Without the truth, don't expect to find the truth, unless >>

As for who can know the truth?
Jesus says clearly, the Father in Heaven Reveals it to those in His Good Pleasure He Chooses to Reveal the Truth (Salvation) to.

Lion Bravehart said:

Does anyone know when hell was created? Bible reference would be fantastic if you don't mind Tyvm!

Click to expand...

Hell was created as a consequence some entities choosing to leave their first estate - some just disobeying the Most High God because of pride and prejudice, and some coming down here to mate with human women - to produce. I am saying this since I feel safe enough to say this without being called a demon (given the forum title). I also say this without (direct) biblical reference since Genesis 6 literally say that these entities chose to mate with human women, and Jude 1:6 references how these entities chose to leave their first estate (plane of existence).

Sorry @Kaon, but that is far-fetched ideas. No where in God's Plan, His Word, His Purpose, or anything that is of Him and from Him, did God ever say angels could take women as wives. Rather, it is against what is written that "everything reproduces after its own kind"..... The idea of angels taking women as wives goes against all God's Word, and is the product, or by-product, of imaginative men or demons without Scriptural support.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

I expect your group of "we" has trouble daily. Without the truth, don't expect to find the truth, unless >>

As for who can know the truth?
Jesus says clearly, the Father in Heaven Reveals it to those in His Good Pleasure He Chooses to Reveal the Truth (Salvation) to.

Click to expand...

Interesting notion......One must have the truth before finding the truth.........
The Pharisee had the truth.....Therefore, when the Truth stood before them, the Truth was dismissed as false, heresy and blasphemy.

I believe instead, one must come before the Lord with no prior beliefs concerning what the truth is or what it should sound like...and say..."Speak Lord, they servant Hearest" Like as a child would.....not waiting to jump on words heard that sounds different....knowing that all truth will be revealed by the one who is Truth....and HE is not angered by the honest search for life even if it may go down a wrong path temporarily......For one cannot succeed while the fear of failure abides..

And one who has found life through their own personal journey does not hinder others from starting their journey proposing, instead, that they "just believe in my journey" . For this is a road too narrow to walk side by side with anyone......one must go alone.....in the end, realizing that they were never truly alone......

Lion Bravehart said:

Does anyone know when hell was created? Bible reference would be fantastic if you don't mind Tyvm!

Click to expand...

My answer is the same as John Calvin, the Reformer, go as far as the Bible goes and then stop. It's a waste of time speculating about the unknown.

RaymondG said:

One much have the truth before finding the truth.........
The Pharisee had the truth.....Therefore, when the Truth stood before them, the Truth was dismissed as false, heresy and blasphemy.

Click to expand...

oops, no. Not "one must have the truth before finding the truth"
nor "The PHarisee had the truth"
is true.

RaymondG said:

I believe instead, one must come before the Lord with no prior beliefs concerning what the truth is or what it should sound like...and say..."Speak Lord, they servant Hearest" Like as a child would.....not waiting to jump on words heard that sounds different....knowing that all truth will be revealed by the one who is Truth....and HE is not angered by the honest search for life even if it may go down a wrong path temporarily......For one cannot succeed while the fear of failure abides..

Click to expand...

Again oops?, no.
It is not that "all truth will be revealed by the one who is Truth",
rather it is hidden as He Says, from the educated ones.... (and others?) ....
and revealed as it is His Good Pleasure So to DO, "to little children"....

RaymondG said:

And one who has found life through their own personal journey does not hinder others from starting their journey proposing, instead, that they "just believe in my journey" instead. For this is a row too narrow to walk side by side with anyone......one must go alone.....in the end, realizing that they were never truly alone......

Click to expand...

Non sequitur. (doesn't follow from topic nor from Scripture as stated here)

When some of the angels in Heaven rebelled against God and were cast out of Heaven.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Sorry @Kaon, but that is far-fetched ideas. No where in God's Plan, His Word, His Purpose, or anything that is of Him and from Him, did God ever say angels could take women as wives. Rather, it is against what is written that "everything reproduces after its own kind"..... The idea of angels taking women as wives goes against all God's Word, and is the product, or by-product, of imaginative men or demons without Scriptural support.

Click to expand...

It says it in the canon, apocrypha and Gnostics. Humans have changed the definition of son of God to mean Seth and his children in order to, perhaps, evade the psychological fright of the implication of those relationships, but the reality is only two human entities have been called son of God: The Word of God, and Adam. And, Adam lost his title as son of God when he sinned, becoming son of man. He had Seth as a son of man, which makes Seth a son of man.

Are you telling me that the children of Seth - Appointed (to bring the Redeemer through his generation) - gave birth to the same entities that gave Israel so much trouble (Nephilim, Rephaim, Anakim, Emim)?

re post 73:
Too much error to even try to correct it in this thread, and apparently not the willingness needed first either.
Suffice it to realize angels never took human women as their wives.
Start thus with a truth, instead of a false premise, and keep seeking the truth, to find it.

Hell was created sometime around the 1st century AD, by the Church.

martymonster said:

Hell was created sometime around the 1st century AD, by the Church.

Click to expand...

What about all the other religion in the world that believed in and taught about 'hell' (not Scripturally) ? , long before the 'church' adopted those unscriptural beliefs ?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

re post 73:
Too much error to even try to correct it in this thread, and apparently not the willingness needed first either.
Suffice it to realize angels never took human women as their wives.
Start thus with a truth, instead of a false premise, and keep seeking the truth, to find it.

Click to expand...

Ok.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

What about all the other religion in the world that believed in and taught about 'hell' (not Scripturally) ? , long before the 'church' adopted those unscriptural beliefs ?

Click to expand...

That just goes to show, that it's a figment of the twisted human mind.

Lion Bravehart said:

Does anyone know when hell was created? Bible reference would be fantastic if you don't mind Tyvm!

Click to expand...

"Hell" (Hades) was created to be a jailhouse for certain angels who will be facing capital punishment in the future. Its not certain if it was created before man was created, or shortly after. Its a holding area for the death row condemned.

Hell is not to be confused with the Lake of Fire. Its where the rich man in the Lazarus account Jesus gave ended up.

The Lake of Fire will be the place for all the spiritually dead who are now waiting in Hell.

Hell was created first for certain fallen angels requiring the Abyss to lock them up until the final judgment.

Not all fallen angels are in the Abyss. Its only for those who refused to agree to stay on earth according to God's terms. Fallen angels, Satan, and many demons agreed to God's terms. They now roam the earth.

The ones on earth can not do anything they wish. They must first ask permission of the Lord before they can. That was shown with the demons cast out of Legion. They had to beg the Lord to even enter the swine. And, Jesus said that Satan had to ask the Lord permission to sift Peter and the disciples like wheat. The fallen angels in the Abyss refused to agree to those terms. They stay locked up for now.

Then, man was created .. Man fell.

Unbelievers were born of men. Some chose to reject the Lord. Hell became renovated. It was modified to be a holding room for all unbelievers souls until the time comes for the final judgement.