Romans 6 is a perfect example of missing critical truth!

BCsenior

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Jeremiah 32 38 “They shall be My people, and I will be their God; 39 and I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me always, for their own good and for the good of their children after them. 40 “I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.
FYI, there are precious few in N. A. churches who are involved in this.
FYI, what they're involved in is habitual sin.
So, who is God talking about through Jeremiah?
How about Israelites in the very last days?
Or, how about God's small last-days remnant
that I keep hearing about from God's prophets?
 
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Carl Emerson

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We know that the Spirit of Jesus has 7 components in one package mentioned in Isaiah 11.

2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him,
The spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The spirit of counsel and strength,
The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.

3 And He will delight in the fear of the LORD,
And He will not judge by what His eyes see,
Nor make a decision by what His ears hear;

These 7 spirits of God are also referenced in Revelation.

Being Indwelled by Him means receiving these seven spirits on being truly born again. This is independent of special gifts that can come later for empowering ones ministry.

We need not look elsewhere, this is the fulfillment of the New Covenant - Christ in us...

To suggest that only some Jews later have the fullness of Jesus within is to belittle that work of the cross for all believers under the New Covenant.
 
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BCsenior

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Jews in Galatians 5 were trusting in Law not Jesus and were not saved.
Their faith was in the wrong place.
Oh, so that's why they became estranged from Christ and fell from grace (Galatians 5:4).
So, this describes non-believers?
Like I said, we're gettin' far out now, aren't we?
 
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Carl Emerson

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Not at all, they were in fellowship and that in itself is a sanctification but not salvation. In that atmosphere of Jesus's presence they had hope of being born again and enjoying much grace. It was like being at the wedding without the right garment. They put on Law instead of Jesus.
 
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Dave L

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For years, I’ve been trying to convince people of
what Paul is saying in Romans 6.


17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin (before),
yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Yes, after becoming BACs … they were set FREE from having to be slaves of sin!
Technically, after becoming BACs … they became slaves of righteousness!
But for these BACs … in practice, this certainly was NOT the case!


22 But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God.
Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life. (NLT)

Yes, after becoming BACs … they were set FREE from having to be slaves of sin!
Technically, after becoming BACs … they became slaves of God, living holy lives!
And Paul is hinting of what they should be doing!

But for these BACs … in practice, this certainly was NOT the case!

The proof of their STILL being slaves of sin, of NOT being faithful BACs

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not!
6 we should no longer be slaves of sin.
11 reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin,
but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead,
and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
16 … you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
whether (slaves) of sin leading to death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?
19 so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


The whole of Romans 6 is Paul’s plea for BACs to STOP being slaves of sin!
Being a slave of sin results in death … spiritual death, not physical death.
The last part of 6:23 applies to faithful BACs who have NOT …
left the faith, fallen from grace, rejected God’s free gift of grace!


Other warning verses about rejecting God’s grace

“God’s will is for you to be holy … live in holiness and honor …
God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives. So, anyone who
refuses to live by these rules is rejecting God.” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-8)


“God has given us everything we need to live a godly life … work hard to prove
that you really are among those God has called and chosen … It would be better
if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then
reject the command they were given to live a holy life” (2 Peter 1:3, 1:10, 2:21)


“God’s discipline is always good for us, so that we might share in his holiness …
work at living a holy life, for those who are NOT holy will NOT see the Lord …
Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking.” (Hebrews 12:10-25)
BACs live holy lives by nature of the New Birth. Those who don't are not saved, but fall into one of the 3 types of soil that fall away. Or they are Tares who try to make BACs sin. This through false doctrines.

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” 1 John 3:9–10 (KJV 1900)
 
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aiki

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For years, I’ve been trying to convince people of
what Paul is saying in Romans 6.

So have I. The truth of the believer's co-crucifixion with Christ is foundational to holy living.

17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin (before),
yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Yes, after becoming BACs … they were set FREE from having to be slaves of sin!
Technically, after becoming BACs … they became slaves of righteousness!
But for these BACs … in practice, this certainly was NOT the case!

Which is why Paul was taking pains to explain the truths of Romans 6 to the Roman believers. Although they were genuine believers, they had not entered into the truth of their spiritual position in Christ.

22 But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God.
Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life. (NLT)

Yes, after becoming BACs … they were set FREE from having to be slaves of sin!
Technically, after becoming BACs … they became slaves of God, living holy lives!
And Paul is hinting of what they should be doing!

But for these BACs … in practice, this certainly was NOT the case!

And yet, Paul still wrote to them as fellow believers.

The whole of Romans 6 is Paul’s plea for BACs to STOP being slaves of sin!
Being a slave of sin results in death … spiritual death, not physical death.

There are "deaths" of various kinds that a believer may suffer when he sins: Death of fellowship (though, not relationship) with God, death of joy, of peace, of contentment, death of human relationships, of freedom, of physical health and death also of the body. The one death from which a believer is exempt, however, is the second death in hell. From that terrible fate, all truly born-again believers have been saved by Christ.

“God’s will is for you to be holy … live in holiness and honor …
God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives. So, anyone who
refuses to live by these rules is rejecting God.” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-8)

Does this passage say anything about God's response to those who live impure lives? Nope.

“God has given us everything we need to live a godly life … work hard to prove
that you really are among those God has called and chosen … It would be better
if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then
reject the command they were given to live a holy life” (2 Peter 1:3, 1:10, 2:21)

In context, this passage speaks of false teachers, false converts, who were leading the Church into false doctrines and sin.

“God’s discipline is always good for us, so that we might share in his holiness …
work at living a holy life, for those who are NOT holy will NOT see the Lord …
Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking.” (Hebrews 12:10-25)

Always beware the ellipses! You have left out a great many important contextual features in your choice of quotations from Hebrews 12 that shape and constrain their meaning.
 
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dqhall

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If sin is a transgression of the law. How can eating sugar be a transgression of the law, when the law does not say; Thou shall not consume sugar.
Eating excess fats, oil and refined carbohydrates like flour and sugar leads to cardiovascular heart disease, type 2 diabetes, heart attack and stroke. Even if I could not see my coronary arteries clogging with plaque and calcium deposits, years of bad dietary practice were made partially visible by a CT scan. The law failed me in as much as it did not describe proper dietary practice. In only a few cases were people able to reverse heart disease.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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You consider eating sugar a sin?
Didn't Jesus have some of a honeycomb after His resurrection?
Gloogl honeycomb.
also look up <refined> sugar. (and see 'five white poisons' in the search

- note that honeycomb, honey, stevia, are nothing at all like the poisons)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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If sin is a transgression of the law. How can eating sugar be a transgression of the law, when the law does not say; Thou shall not consume sugar.
for further personal (not on this thread) development: >>>

"Search only for illness caused cocaine "vs" sugar?"
"What Do Sugar and Cocaine Have In Common?
What Do Sugar and Cocaine Have In Common?
The Effects of Sugar. Eating sugary foods makes people hungry and tired, and causes them to gain weight. Refined sugar is void of minerals needed for enzymes, can cause mineral deficiencies, interferes with the actions of calcium and magnesium, increases inflammation, increases erratic brain cell firing, and has been implicated in aggression.

"Is Sugar More Addictive Than Cocaine? | Here & Now
Is Sugar More Addictive Than Cocaine?
He recently published a comprehensive review of dozens of studies in which he contends that sugar is more dangerous than salt when it comes to risk for heart disease.

"Study Shows Sugar is More Addictive Than Cocaine ...
Study Shows THIS Common Food Additive is More Addictive than Cocaine!
The Human Brain On Sugar. When a person attempts to cut off their sugar addiction, it can be tough. Food manufacturers are smart. They know that's how the brain works and so they cram their products to the brim with refined sugar for the sake of profit. And the profits are huge - in the billions for companies like Coca Cola."
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Eating excess fats, oil and refined carbohydrates like flour and sugar leads to cardiovascular heart disease, type 2 diabetes, heart attack and stroke. Even if I could not see my coronary arteries clogging with plaque and calcium deposits, years of bad dietary practice were made partially visible by a CT scan. The law failed me in as much as it did not describe proper dietary practice. In only a few cases were people able to reverse heart disease.
WONDERFUL ! ENLIGHTENING ! (to be seen)

But pray tell, WHO told you that such a problem is difficult to reverse ? (best not to answer here, but do if you wish to) ..... Rather search and seek and keep seeking for a better answer, available "outside the gates", where Jesus went and His followers go.

The TORAH (THE LAW) says "MY people PERISH for lack of knowledge" as you have noted in a different view. TORAH did not CAUSE the lack of knowledge. Men did and do.
 
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dqhall

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WONDERFUL ! ENLIGHTENING ! (to be seen)

But pray tell, WHO told you that such a problem is difficult to reverse ? (best not to answer here, but do if you wish to) ..... Rather search and seek and keep seeking for a better answer, available "outside the gates", where Jesus went and His followers go.

The TORAH (THE LAW) says "MY people PERISH for lack of knowledge" as you have noted in a different view. TORAH did not CAUSE the lack of knowledge. Men did and do.
I have read books by doctors: Ornish, Esselstyn, Greger, Campbell, Fuhrman, et alia.

Dr. Michael Greger wrote about his 65 year old grandmother being sent home to die after her coronary bypasses clogged with plaque. She went to an inpatient clinic operated by Dr. Robert Pritikin and went on a modified primarily plant based, low fat diet with exercise. She lost weight and continued her strict diet; living well into her 90’s. (“How Not to Die,” by Dr. Michael Greger.)

Dr. Dean Ornish teaches a low fat, no added sugar or salt, vegan diet. He reversed his own heart disease and provided angiogram evidence to show arteries of his patients’ arteries becoming unblocked. Without a strict program of diet and exercise, people only get worse. From, “Preventing and Reversing Heart Disease,” by Dr. Dean Ornish.

I lost about 25 lbs and lowered my blood pressure. I spent many hours trying to perfect my diet through reading books, articles and clinical study results.
 
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BCsenior

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they (Galatians 5:4 believers) were in fellowship and that in itself is a sanctification but not salvation. In that atmosphere of Jesus's presence they had hope of being born again and enjoying much grace.
It was like being at the wedding without the right garment. They put on Law instead of Jesus.
IMO, you're makin' up all kinds of weird doctrine to suit your fancy!
 
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BCsenior

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“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 3:9–10 (KJV 1900)
And what do we do with those here who don't do the last part of the U/L bold?
As for myself, I choose to put them on ignore.
For John says they are children of the devil.

Lately, a couple of God's prophets (yes, Matilda, God does talk to His people!)
have said that God will bring down (BIG TIME) all those who are proud and haughty).
Dat, folks, includes BACs!
The Crash of the Century comes in 2019 (and probably this month of October)!
 
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BCsenior

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The one death from which a believer is exempt, however, is the second death in hell.
From that terrible fate, all truly born-again believers have been saved by Christ.
... Always beware the ellipses!
Welcome to ... The Second Death in the Lake of Fire
IMO, the following is Father God speaking to EVERYONE (BACs included) ...
Revelation 21:
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers,
idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone,
which is the second death.”

The aiki, and many others, do NOT understand who the "overcomers" are!
They are NOT those spoken of in 1 John 5:4-5
... for those folks have ONLY overcome "the world".
Jesus expects far more ...
Revelation 3:
21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
 
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BCsenior

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In only a few cases were people able to reverse heart disease.
How about those BACs living today whom God has
chosen to "work" for Him in these very last of days?
If they have serious heart disease, t'will be reversed.
Thank you very much.
 
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Dave L

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And what do we do with those here who don't do the last part of the U/L bold?
As for myself, I choose to put them on ignore.
For John says they are children of the devil.

Lately, a couple of God's prophets (yes, Matilda, God does talk to His people!)
have said that God will bring down (BIG TIME) all those who are proud and haughty).
Dat, folks, includes BACs!
The Crash of the Century comes in 2019 (and probably this month of October)!
I don't believe there are any true prophets today. But "ignore" is necessary sometimes.
 
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BCsenior

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I don't believe there are any true prophets today.
I know you don't, but you do believe in cessationism!
At least you believe in something! ... even though it is false doctrine!
 
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Enjoy your opinion...
I am totally serious - we have underestimated the truth of 'God in us'.
Surely, all BACs believe they have God in them!
It's not this truth to which you refer ...
it's the power of "God in us" that you wish to stress!
Am I correct?
 
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