LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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This person has said they did not read Holford's book, but continue to make the claim above.
I read the book and it does not say that.
The book does prove that most of the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled during 70 AD.

.
And this person says it is a "Temple" being measured in Revel 11:1 instead of a "Sanctuary".
Hugh difference..............

What about Revelation 11:1-2 SANCTUARY, COURT AND HOLY CITY
LittleLambofJesus said:
Once again, the word "Temple" is not in Revelation.......
BABerean2 said:
Revelation 11:1 (CJB) I was given a measuring rod like a stick and told, "Get up, and measure the Temple of God and the altar, and count how many people are worshipping there!
G3485 ναός (naos) occurs 46 times in 40 verses

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of God and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>[Priests/Lavar/Altar of Sacrifice] outside of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side<1854> and no it thou should be measuring,
that it was given to the Gentiles/Nations.
And the holy City they shall be treading<3961>forty two months.
==========================
STRONGS NT 3485: ναός ναός, ναοῦ, ὁ (ναίω to dwell),
the Sept. for הֵיכָל, used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of holies (in classical Greek used of the sanctuary or cell of a temple, where the image of the god was placed, called also δόμος, σηκός, which is to be distinguished from τό ἱερόν, the whole temple, the entire consecrated enclosure; this distinction is observed also in the Bible;
=======================================
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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1) The Messiah is "cut off" after the 69th week, not half-way through the 70th week:
That predicted the Crucifixion and abandonment of Jesus on the cross (by all Apostles save John)
2) The following sentences clearly describe the coming of the Roman legions under Vespasian & Titus to desolate Jerusalem & Herod's temple in the 7-year long Jewish-Roman war (66-73 AD)
= 70 AD destruction of the temple
The second half of the "seven" = 3 1/2 years the zealots held out at Masada (70-73 AD)
Great post Erik.
I wish more Christians would read about Josephus' account of the Jewish Wars.

I have a thread up on it if you and others are interested....

Matt 24:6..The Jewish Wars in 1st century...Up to 70ad and Masada

This will be a thread dedicated to the events wars/battles occurring during the last days leading up the "consummation" of the OC Jewish Age as prophecied in Daniel and the Olivet Discourse.

First, the Olivet Discourse verses:

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:
3 Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when shall these be being?
and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-end/consummation<4930> of the Age?
6 “Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing of battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Mark 13
4 Tell us! when these shall be?
and what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> all these to be fully concluded/consummated<4931>.

7 “Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled for is binding to be becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Luke 21
7 They inquire yet of Him saying “Teacher!
when then shall these be being?
And what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> these to becoming<1096>?

9 “Yet whenever ye should be hearing of battles and tumults<181>, no may be being frightened<4422>, for is binding these to be becoming,
but not immediately the End<5056>
=======================
A few links I will be using for this thread [please feel free to add more links that are relevant to the topic of this thread]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refute

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. --
Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament,
and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ;
===========================================

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive
The Historical Fall of Jerusalem in AD70
TRACKING THE FIRST JEWISH REVOLT FROM A MILITARY POINT OF VIEW


POV: Administrative | Factional | Military | Theological
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM


CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70

Jewish people have mourned the loss of the Temple since that day

"Napoleon once passed a synagogue on the day of Tisha B’Av and observed the entire congregation sitting and weeping. Quite intrigued, he asked his officers if they could explain this unusual sight. One intelligent officer responded by recounting the history of the Jewish People and the Holy Temple in Jerusalem that was destroyed two thousand years ago. Totally amazed by the phenomenon that he witnessed before his very eyes, Napoleon exclaimed: “any nation that can retain such a fierce love and loyalty for a Holy site that they’ve never seen that was so far away, and for so long, is destined for greatness and will outlive us all!”

..................................

..................................
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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3 1/2 years after the Crucifixion is a made up date that nothing is verified happened. Open your minds people and stop making stuff up.

Again, verse 25 has the Messiah being cut off. What is said after that is the fulfillment of Jesus prophecy in Matthew 24:2, the second paradigm for the destruction of the temple in 70 AD which was in the middle of the second Jewish revolt from 66 AD to 73 AD with 70 AD in the middle of the week (7 years). Then Matthew 24:15 is not regarding the destruction of the temple in 70 AD but the end of the world and the Antichrist. The first paradigm of Daniel 8:13-14 happened in 160 BC to 167 BC, of the first Jewish revolt during the reign of Antiochus Epiphanes IV. The temple then was desecrated in 164 BC, then the ruler died, again in the middle of the week. We have the real one of 7 years at the end of the world. No more samples/paradigms.
Sorry, the Bible does not prophesy the end of the earth as we know it. Just the end of ages and nations. Which is the paramount issue.

The end time prophecies that are being referred to here are the end of the Old covenant age and ancient Israel. Then much later the end of the age of the four gentiles empires. That did not happen until what had been the capitol of the Roman Empire since 333ad, Constantinople was conquered in 1453 ad and the last Roman Emperor killed.

Here is why these indisputable facts are so important. The body of Bible prophecy about this age. The age that was to come after the age of the four gentile empires is not only greater in volume than the body of end time prophecy. But. It is to dictate the vision of the future to Christians by being the basis of their faith and labors.
But a great vail and darkness has descended over the eyes of believers in the last century due to their erroneous application of the end time prophecies of the last two ages in this age.

That is the reality. But God’s prescription and agenda for the world moves on and grows regardless of his children’s ignorance. Here is just a tiny sampling of the prophecies about this promised age we live in. If your interested.
The Bride of Christ
 
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Erik Nelson

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Sorry, the Bible does not prophesy the end of the earth as we know it. Just the end of ages and nations. Which is the paramount issue.

The end time prophecies that are being referred to here are the end of the Old covenant age and ancient Israel. Then much later the end of the age of the four gentiles empires. That did not happen until what had been the capitol of the Roman Empire since 333ad, Constantinople was conquered in 1453 ad and the last Roman Emperor killed.

Here is why these indisputable facts are so important. The body of Bible prophecy about this age. The age that was to come after the age of the four gentile empires is not only greater in volume than the body of end time prophecy. But. It is to dictate the vision of the future to Christians by being the basis of their faith and labors.
But a great vail and darkness has descended over the eyes of believers in the last century due to their erroneous application of the end time prophecies of the last two ages in this age.

That is the reality. But God’s prescription and agenda for the world moves on and grows regardless of his children’s ignorance. Here is just a tiny sampling of the prophecies about this promised age we live in. If your interested.
The Bride of Christ
Constantinople was built by a Christian emperor as a purely Christian city from a "clean Christian slate"

the diabolical demon-dominated pagan Roman empire was overcome, spiritually "defeated" by the "sword tongue" of preaching the Gospel, and converted to Christ in the 4th century

the Christian Byzantine empire last just about 1000 years, as promised

the 15th century was the beginning of the End Times of "Gog & Magog"

today = Rev 20:7-9a

Biblically soon = Rev 20:9b

Just as one sinner can convert to Christ and become a new person spiritually in God's Eyes, so can many millions of sinners, as they did across the Roman empire in the 4th century
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Daniel Martinovich said:
I never heard of anyone saying the 70th week ends in 70ad. It obviously ends 3.5 years after the crucifixion. But the prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem at the hands of Titus in Daniel 9:26-27 doesn’t put a precise timeline on the destruction of the city. Jesus verifies this by saying some of those standing there will live to see it. Also that it would happen in the space of that generation.
CharismaticLady said:
3 1/2 years after the Crucifixion is a made up date that nothing is verified happened. Open your minds people and stop making stuff up.

Again, verse 25 has the Messiah being cut off. What is said after that is the fulfillment of Jesus prophecy in Matthew 24:2, the second paradigm for the destruction of the temple in 70 AD which was in the middle of the second Jewish revolt from 66 AD to 73 AD with 70 AD in the middle of the week (7 years). Then Matthew 24:15 is not regarding the destruction of the temple in 70 AD but the end of the world and the Antichrist. The first paradigm of Daniel 8:13-14 happened in 160 BC to 167 BC, of the first Jewish revolt during the reign of Antiochus Epiphanes IV. The temple then was desecrated in 164 BC, then the ruler died, again in the middle of the week. We have the real one of 7 years at the end of the world. No more samples/paradigms.
Sorry, the Bible does not prophesy the end of the earth as we know it. Just the end of ages and nations. Which is the paramount issue.That is the reality. But God’s prescription and agenda for the world moves on and grows regardless of his children’s ignorance. Here is just a tiny sampling of the prophecies about this promised age we live in. If your interested.
The Bride of Christ
Yes, the world moves on since 70AD despite ignorance of some within Christianity, Islam and Judaism today............

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

Mat 8:12
“But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Mat 22:13
“Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and[fn] cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Mat 25:30
‘And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

Mat 13:38
“The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

Eph 4:18

They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.


Matthew 23:33 "Serpents! offspring of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna <1067>


 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The Preterist Gap
=====================================
The Preterist Archive of Realized Eschatology

James Jordan: Bridging the Last Gap: Daniel’s Seventy Weeks Revisited (1992)


Bridging the Last Gap: Daniel’s Seventy Weeks Revisited
By James B. Jordan
Biblical Chronology Vol. 4, No. 11 November, 1992

As we have seen in this series, each time there is a new covenant, there is a break in the year-by-year chronology. At the same time, each time the break is crossed by information provided in the text. Thus, the year-by-year chronology breaks down at the birth of Abraham, but we can figure out when Abraham was born from information contained elsewhere in the Bible. The year-by-year chronology breaks down during the Egyptian Sojourn, but Exodus 12:40-41 and Galatians 3:17 bridge the gap. The year-by-year chronology breaks down after the book of Judges, but 1 Kings 6:1 bridges the gap.

Now, the chronology also breaks down between Malachi and Matthew. The only place the Bible bridges the gap is in Daniel 9:24-27, the “seventy weeks” from Cyrus to Jesus. In the past we have taken up the question of whether the 70 Weeks should be taken as literal years or as a symbolic chronology, and we have opted in these studies to take them literally, thereby bridging the gap.

But exactly how is the gap bridged? There are three possibilities, as I see it. One is that the cutting off of the Messiah after the 69th week refers to the crucifixion, which for now we will put in A.D. 30. The second is that the cutting off takes place in A.D. 67, followed by the 70th week, in the middle of which Jerusalem is destroyed. The third possibility (and I hate to admit this) is that there is a gap (yes, you read that right) between the 69th and 70th weeks.

Well, let’s see what we can do with this.

Daniel 9:24. Seventy sevens [weeks] have been decreed for your people [Israel] and your holy city [Jerusalem], to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal vision and prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy One.

This is an overall statement introducing the details to follow. The seventy sevens are taken to be seventy weeks, and weeks of years, because as we shall see, they clearly are units of years. This prophecy concerns Israel and Jerusalem most pointedly, and in my opinion indicates that all that the Bible prophesies about Israel and Jerusalem comes to pass by A.D. 70. I have defended this thesis at length in Biblical Horizons Nos. 27-29, and if you don’t have a copy of this essay, you can obtain it by sending a donation of $5.00 to Biblical Horizons, Box 1096, Niceville, FL 32588.

While the details of the rest of verse 24 are at some points unclear, certainly the coming of the Covenant in its fullness in Christ is what is being spoken of. But the New Covenant arrives in stages. There are two stages that interest us, and that are interpretive possibilities. The first stage is the crucifixion, resurrection, ascension, and enthronement of Christ and the sending of the Holy Spirit in A.D. 30. These events can be seen to finish transgression, to make an end of sin, to atone for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness. If anointing the Most Holy refers to Jesus’ baptism, and it probably does, this was also accomplished by A.D. 30. If it refers to Pentecost, the same is true.

But sealing vision and prophet seems to point beyond that date, because what we call the New Testament still had to be written. It was not until just before A.D. 70 that the new writings had been completed. Thus, one might argue that the 70 Weeks carry down to A.D. 70. On the other hand, it can be argued that though there were visions and prophets between 30 and 70, yet the definitive fulfillment of vision and prophecy took place in Christ and was finished by A.D. 30.

Yet, “finishing the transgression and making an end of sin” has reference to Israel and Jerusalem, not to the whole world. It can be argued that Israel’s transgression and sin did not reach their fullness until just before A.D. 70. At that point, the iniquity of the Canaanites was full, and Israel was eliminated from the scene of prophecy and special history.

25. So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a word to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, seven sevens and sixty-two sevens; it will be built again, with streets and moat, even in times of distress.

The seven weeks of 49 years we have seen run from Cyrus’s decree to the end of Nehemiah. The fact that these were literally 49 years establishes that the “sevens” or “weeks” of this passage are groups of years. The prophecies concerning Jerusalem’s rebuilding were fulfilled in this period. Then there are 62 more weeks of years, the period “between the testaments” as it is usually and unfortunately called.

26. Then after the 62 sevens, the Messiah [Jesus] will be cut off [excommunicated by the religious rulers of Israel] and have nothing [the cross, Phil. 2:7]; and the people of the Prince [the enthroned Christ] Who is to come will destroy the city [Jerusalem] and the sanctuary [Temple]. And its end will come with a flood [like Noah, like the threats of Deut. 28; like the locust flood of Joel]; even to the end there will be war [the Jewish War of A.D. 66-70]; desolations are determined.

“After the 62 weeks” must mean during the 70th. I have provided the standard interpretation in the text, which is that the cutting off of the Messiah refers to the events of A.D. 30, Jesus’ excommunication and crucifixion. It might be argued, however, that Jesus was cut off and had nothing around the year 66, when Paul supposedly died, if we also believe that there was a great massacre of other Christians also at this time. In that case, it is a kind of “death” of the early Church that is in view. But, and it is a big “but,” the Bible says nothing about such a massacre, and does not record the death of Paul.

27a. And He [Messiah the Prince] will confirm a covenant [The Covenant] with the many [the Church] during one week [the 70th week]. But in the middle of the week He will put a stop to sacrifice [peace offerings] and tribute [grain offerings] [by dying on the cross, and thereby ending the sacrificial system].

This is the traditional view, and I am still generally happy with it. The assumption is that Christ confirms the Covenant during His 3-year ministry, and then dies in A.D. 30 in the middle of the 70th week.

But there is an alternative possibility. The fact is that peace offerings and tribute offerings did not stop with the cross. We see Paul going to the Temple and offering sacrifices to fulfill his Nazirite vow in Acts 21:26. Perhaps the confirming of the covenant with Israel is the conversion of the (symbolic) 144,000 Jews as recorded in Revelation 7, what Paul calls the “fullness of Israel coming in” in Romans 11. Perhaps the cessation of sacrifices refers to the destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70.

Still, confirming the covenant is exactly what the gospels show Jesus doing. Thus, I am happier viewing the 70th week as beginning with the baptism of Jesus. Jesus’ work put a definitive and judicial “stop” to the sacrificial system, though His people were free to continue offering memorials until the Temple was actually destroyed....................................

Conclusion

Daniel 9:24-27 bridges the gap between Malachi and Matthew by providing a chronology of 490 years. The period begins with the decree of Cyrus in around A.M. 3474, and ends in A.M. 3964. The death of Christ happened midway through the last seven years, or in A.M. 3960. There is good reason, as we shall see, for making this the same as A.D. 30, in which case the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 was the year A.M. 4000.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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Please. The kings and emperors of Europe generally set up their imperial churches to control real Christianity not promote it. They did it out of self interest. Christianity destroyed usefulness idolatry had that kings and emperors used to manipulate the populations for the benefit of their own selfish interests.

As a good example of this. Justinian codified previous imperil decrees making it the death penalty to get re-baptized as an adult if you were baptized as a baby into the emperors imperial church. It was considered treason against the emperor who kept the Word of God from people and gave them rites, rituals, pictures and confessions in its place.

Revelation prophecies the split of the Roman Empire into an eastern and western branch’s via the animal with two horns that looked like a lamb but spoke the words of the dragon. The two horns represent the two branches. The lamb represents the claims of Christianity and the words being of the dragon is all too obvious.

What happened that brought us into the this time period of promise after the fall of the Roman Empire 1453ad was the Word of God, for the first time in human history getting into the hands of the general public. This happened in Northern Europe. Even though it was illegal another first in human history happened, outside of ancient Israel. As they had been doing for a thousand years. The powers that existed raised an army to wipe out the people of Northern Europe who were gaining access to the Word. But this time, for the first time they lost. The people of Northern Europe where the general public had and read Bibles went on to found the free world we now enjoy. The free world that has been growing ever since. The free world that has conquered all those who seek to enslave it once more.

Why do I call it the age of promise? Because from the very beginning of the book the Bible promised and prophesied an age where his people would have the opportunity to possess all the earthly promises made to hundreds of generations of saints. Promises that were never fulfilled in their generations as a matter of course. But in the free world founded by Bible reading people’s. For the first time in human history. The saints in fact do have that opportunity to have all those earthly promises fulfilled in their lives.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I’ve been somewhat surprised to learn that some Preterists finish Daniels 70th week in AD 70. They postulate a 40 year gap between the “cutting off of Messiah in the midst of the week” and the destruction of the temple in AD 70. We might expect this kind of theory from full Preterists, but it comes from part-Preterists as well.

However, in so doing Preterists are being hypocritical when condemning Futurists for doing exactly the same thing by inserting a 2000 year gap. The only difference is length – but a gap nonetheless.

The proper explanation is simple. The 70 weeks finished 3 1/2 years after the crucifixion. Can someone explain why they believe the 70th week ends in AD 70? I suspect it is to do with verse 26 of Dan. 9. But there is a better way of interpreting that verse.
It is not so much a partial Presterist view as it is a fulfillment. Some understand "generation" as referring to the Jewish race while others, Preterists, see it as the generation at the time Jesus Christ of Nazareth said these words.

1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2“Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ a spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.
26“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29“Immediately after the distress of those days
“ ‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth c will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. d 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it e is near, right at the door. 34Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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John Denton: Prophetic Day or Year – Jerusalem’s Destruction and the Seventy Weeks (1998)

John Denton: Prophetic Day or Year – Jerusalem’s Destruction and the Seventy Weeks (1998)

Everything that God had given this nation had been stripped away. The model of God’s Kingdom project had now been destroyed. The real thing was now under construction its foundations already laid.

Prophetic Day or Year: Jerusalem’s Destruction and the Seventy Weeks

By John Denton
1998

“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. “Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.” Dan 12:11-12
Introduction?
The 1,290 Days
The 1,335 Days
The 2,300 Days
TIME TO FLEE IDENTIFIED

This paper will overview a portion of the historical account describing the destruction of Jerusalem in the 1st Century of our common era. It compares Daniel’s prophetic words regarding this historic event with the account provided by the then contemporary historian Josephus. The paper will pay close attention to the 1,290, 1,335, and 2,300 day periods foretold by Daniel. Some today feel these days are prophetic for years not literal days. Others apply these days as literal days but do so not at the manifestation of our Lord’s presence in fire and at the end of the Gospel age but at some other intermediate chronological date. We feel this paper will help all to see how the ‘type’ was indeed fulfilled and thus help us to anticipate some further potential details in the outworking of the Divine plan.

When examining by cross referencing Jesus’ words in Matthew 24:15 with Luke 21:20 we can identify the ‘desolating thing’ as the Roman armies capable of inflicting this destruction. Daniel in 11:9-17 describes the same details in connection with the Roman armies but this time labels the Romans as the ‘king of the north’ and the Jewish nation the ‘king of the south’. Daniel records how the ‘king of the north’ (the Romans) would return against Jerusalem the ‘king of the south’, lay siege to it and destroy it. In verse 17 Daniel also describes Jerusalem as a ‘woman’ whom the ‘king of the north’ brings to ruin.

Daniel nailed down the time with further information, showing that the time for fleeing would arrive after the constant daily sacrifice to the Romans had been brought to an end and the ‘desolating thing’ had appeared and withdrawn. Using the eye witness account of the historian Josephus, the events can be pinpointed to the end of December 66 or 67.

Many ‘discerning’ disciples identified these events and having understood their significance with Daniel’s help, would have been ready to follow Jesus’ warning to leave the doomed city of Jerusalem. Starting from January 67 or 68 after the Roman army had withdrawn, persons having been warned of the predicted final destruction on Jerusalem could have got out. Unlike the rest of the Jews, who considered the unexplained withdrawal of the Roman army to be a victory granted to them by God, a sign that he was with them, therefore they considered they were divinely protected and safe in Jerusalem.

Once this start date for the time of the final part had been identified, these discerning ones could make further examination of Daniel’s time prophecies linked directly to this starting date, the end of December 66 or 67. These prophecies were provided to identify and anticipate what would occur in the ‘final part’ of the events in connection with the end of the Jewish system (Daniel 12:8)...............................

Reviewing the time cues:-
9th Time Cue. 31st of December 66 or 67, Between October 66 or 67 and the end of December 66 or 67, the constant feature had been removed the daily sacrifice to Rome. The Roman armies appeared against Jerusalem and by the end of December 66 or 67 they had unaccountably withdrawn, the time to flee starts.

10th Time Cue. The 6th of April 70 or 71, the Roman armies under Titus return against Jerusalem and lay siege to it, the opportunity to flee ends.

11th Time Cue. The 31st of July 70 or 71 the Roman armies destroy the temple, the Jewish religious system comes to its end.

12th Time Cue. The 14th of September 70 or 71, the Romans have completely destroyed Jerusalem, the Jewish administration center, executions carried out, prisoners deported; the war at Jerusalem ends, peace is restored.

13th Time Cue. By the 20th May 73 or 74 the Romans have removed the last national resistance of the Jews, taking Masada and clearing the land of all last pockets of resistance. All the lost Jewish lands and territories are sold off.

This treatise overviewed the destruction of Jerusalem in the 1st Century by the Romans. It evaluates and compares Daniel’s prophetic words regarding this historic event with the account provided by the historian Josephus. It clearly establishes that the typical fulfillment were literal days not weeks of years and that these days occurred at the final part of the last days of the Jewish system of things. Some today apply an anti-type fulfillment to these days but modify their magnitude by liberally apply a year for each day. Others apply literal days to events that happened many decades ago and to events that did not bring about the conclusion of the age. We can find no scriptural support for such views. The anti-type descriptions we find in the Revelation (Rev 11) also give no evidence nor support for this type of time domain manipulation. Therefore, it is our thinking that if one entertains the idea of an anti-type at the close of the Gospel age one should explore the likelihood that this anti-type will match the type very closely and result in literal days at the conclusion of the age. We all do well in an examination such as this, to keep in mind the admonition of the Apostle Paul to not go beyond what is written. 1

Note 1: The historical reference material used in this work was: The Complete Works of Josephus, 1981 Kregel Publications, Grand Rapids, MI 49501
==================================
Please visit my Josephus/Olivet Discourse thread.............

JOSEPHUS, OLIVET DISCOURSE AND BOOK OF REVELATION

Josephus really intrigues me.
There is a question now whether or not he had access to a copy of Revelation based on some of his writings concerning 70ad Jerusalem?
I think this would make for a fascinating discussion, whether one is preterist, futurist, amill, etc.

First off, like the Apostle Paul, he is said to have been both a Jew and Pharisee, according to this source.
If so, wouldn't he have had some contact with some of the Apostles or Disciples of Christ at one time?
Discuss..........
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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Yes, the world moves on since 70AD despite ignorance of some within Christianity, Islam and Judaism today............

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

Mat 8:12
“But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Mat 22:13
“Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and[fn] cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Mat 25:30
‘And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

Mat 13:38
“The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

Eph 4:18

They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.


Matthew 23:33 "Serpents! offspring of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna <1067>


Yes I know Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 were fully fulfilled in 70 AD. I wrote what I think is the best and easiest to read article on the internet on the subject. Of course I’m biased.
The End Of An Age
But the other large body of end time prophecy about the age of the four gentile empires was not completely fulfilled until the last of the four empires was ended. The great line of demarcation is not 70 ad but 1453 ad. Why? Because that is the line between the age when as a general rule the saints were military conquered, oppressed, subjugated, genocided, etc, etc. Verses on the other side of that line. This age. Where the influence of the saints becomes the dominate force in the earth. The thing that gave them the power was the Word of God getting into the hands of the general public which began to happen immediately after the fall of the Roman Empire in 1453 AD.
The 1000 years illustrates the Kingdom of God filling the earth as per Daniel 2 and 7. Gog and Magog illustrate the nation’s and people’s who seek to conquer the free world created by Bible reading people after the fall of the Roman Empire. Gog and Magog would illustrate all the nations and people’s who sought to conquer the free world since then but were soundly defeated in war.(fire from heaven) Satan being bound illustrates Satan not having influence in the hearts of Gods saints which grow in number every day. The New Jerusalem is God’s saints in the free world. Etc etc.
End Time Prophecy
 
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Erik Nelson

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Yes I know Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 were fully fulfilled in 70 AD. I wrote what I think is the best and easiest to read article on the internet on the subject. Of course I’m biased.
The End Of An Age
But the other large body of end time prophecy about the age of the four gentile empires was not completely fulfilled until the last of the four empires was ended. The great line of demarcation is not 70 ad but 1453 ad. Why? Because that is the line between the age when as a general rule the saints were military conquered, oppressed, subjugated, genocided, etc, etc. Verses on the other side of that line. This age. Where the influence of the saints becomes the dominate force in the earth. The thing that gave them the power was the Word of God getting into the hands of the general public which began to happen immediately after the fall of the Roman Empire in 1453 AD.
The 1000 years illustrates the Kingdom of God filling the earth as per Daniel 2 and 7. Gog and Magog illustrate the nation’s and people’s who seek to conquer the free world created by Bible reading people after the fall of the Roman Empire. Gog and Magog would illustrate all the nations and people’s who sought to conquer the free world since then but were soundly defeated in war.(fire from heaven) Satan being bound illustrates Satan not having influence in the hearts of Gods saints which grow in number every day. The New Jerusalem is God’s saints in the free world. Etc etc.
End Time Prophecy
The "renaissance", literally "re-birth" of pre-Christian pagan "Classical" Greco-Roman customs, leading up to the modern "post-Christian" world, is the work of what "Saints" ?
 
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Maria Billingsley

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When was the fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy of Matthew 24:2? And what about His reference to Daniel and the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place? That certainly wasn't Jesus.
Since it was to happen in their generation, I would say 70AD. The disciples were pointing at the very temple. The abomination certainly took place at that time as well. Rejection of the Messiah is the ultimate sacrilege. This made the Holy place desolate and eventually depopulated.

24 Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. 2 But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I’ve been somewhat surprised to learn that some Preterists finish Daniels 70th week in AD 70. They postulate a 40 year gap between the “cutting off of Messiah in the midst of the week” and the destruction of the temple in AD 70. We might expect this kind of theory from full Preterists, but it comes from part-Preterists as well.

However, in so doing Preterists are being hypocritical when condemning Futurists for doing exactly the same thing by inserting a 2000 year gap. The only difference is length – but a gap nonetheless.

The proper explanation is simple. The 70 weeks finished 3 1/2 years after the crucifixion. Can someone explain why they believe the 70th week ends in AD 70? I suspect it is to do with verse 26 of Dan. 9. But there is a better way of interpreting that verse.
Yes I know Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 were fully fulfilled in 70 AD. I wrote what I think is the best and easiest to read article on the internet on the subject. Of course I’m biased.
The End Of An Age
The New Jerusalem is God’s saints in the free world. Etc etc.
End Time Prophecy
Josephus agrees with you as do I. :oldthumbsup:

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted



PREFACE

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ; the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION ; together with the impressive and terrific grandeur of the events themselves -- are circumstances which must always insure to the subject of the following pages more than ordinary degrees of interest and importance.
============
Revelation would also then be the fulfillment of Daniel and Revelation correct?
Is Jerusalem 70 ad the great City in Revelation?

  1. *
    Yes
    6 vote(s)
    24.0%
  2. No
    13 vote(s)
    52.0%
  3. Maybe
    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  4. Never thought about it that way
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. I don't know, but am willing to learn
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Why does it matter?
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Other [please explaine]
    4 vote(s)
    16.0%
  8. It is Rome
    1 vote(s)
    4.0%

What great City is being symbolized in Revelation?
 
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DavidPT

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Not if you want to get paid :)


BABerean2's analogy is correct. If the 69 weeks ended on a Friday, for example, and that he then painted the house on the next day, Saturday in this case, that means he would be painting the house in the 70th week. Why wouldn't he get paid?

But one can also come up with an analogy that demonstrates after can also mean at the end of. Such as---

Beginning this week reruns of the Rifleman will start airing on this channel daily for 69 weeks. After 69 weeks reruns of the Rifleman will no longer be airing on this channel.
 
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Erik Nelson

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BABerean2's analogy is correct. If the 69 weeks ended on a Friday, for example, and that he then painted the house on the next day, Saturday in this case, that means he would be painting the house in the 70th week. Why wouldn't he get paid?

But one can also come up with an analogy that demonstrates after can also mean at the end of. Such as---

Beginning this week reruns of the Rifleman will start airing on this channel daily for 69 weeks. After 69 weeks reruns of the Rifleman will no longer be airing on this channel.
No, the Hebrew word for "after" means "hinder parts, extremity of"

The "after the 69th week" means "at the hinder extremity of the 69th week"

at the very end of or immediately after
 
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DavidPT

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No, the Hebrew word for "after" means "hinder parts, extremity of"

The "after the 69th week" means "at the hinder extremity of the 69th week"

at the very end of or immediately after


I don't agree with his analogy, I was pointing out that his analogy was at least valid. The analogy I used, that appears to me to be showing the same point you are trying to make here. But anyway, I'm in agreement with you about when the Messiah is cutoff. It was clearly at the very end of or immediately after the 69 weeks.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Jesus' Birth, Crucifixion, Death, Resurrection and Ascension in Revelation.

Matthew 1:21
and she shall bring forth a Son, and thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.’
Luke 2:7
and she brought forth her Son — the first-born, and wrapped Him up, and laid Him down in the manger, because there was not for them a place in the guest-chamber.

Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth a Son, a male,

Who is about to be shepherding<4165> all the nations in iron rod/staff.
<<<<<<gap >>>>>>and caught away was her Child unto God and His throne,

Acts 1:9
And these things having said — they beholding —He was taken up, and a cloud did receive Him up from their sight;
10 and as they were looking stedfastly to the heaven in His going on, then behold! two Men stood by them in white apparel,
======================
John 19:30
When then Jesus had received/got the vinegar, He said "it hath been finished!/tetelestai <5055> (5769)".
And reclining the head He gives-up the spirit.

Revelation 1:18
and the living One! And I became dead, and behold! I AM living into the Ages of the Ages
And I am having the Keys of the Hades and of the Death
=========================
40yr gap from crucifixion untill Harvest 70AD.....

Why does Luke 21:27 use the singular "cloud" instead of "clouds"?

Luke 21:27
And then they shall be seeing the Son of the Man coming in a cloud with power and glory, much.

Revelation 14:14 And I saw and behold! a white cloud and upon the cloud one sitting like-as Son of Man, having upon the head of Him a crown of gold and a sharp sickle in His hands.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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The "renaissance", literally "re-birth" of pre-Christian pagan "Classical" Greco-Roman customs, leading up to the modern "post-Christian" world, is the work of what "Saints" ?
Nope, the so called "post" Christian era is a direct , practical, unaviodably natural result of Christianity being robbed of a scriptural vision of the future. And; having that vision erroneously replaced with the apocalyptic prophecy of the last two ages. They need the 100 + chapters of prophecy that pertain to this age for them to develop spiritually and intellectually in such a way as to overcome the evils of their generations. To put it bluntly. To have a fake vision of the future based on a thoroughly erroneous readings or the end time prophecy that pertained to the last two ages is just like not having the Bible at all. It is the very definition of false prophecy and has the exact same design, The destruction of the fruit of the labor of the saints that went before us and the eventual destruction of the saints. It takes away the power of God's saints could and should have to fight and overcome today's evils.

Again. What prophecy that pertains to this age am I referring to? Here are just 3 chapters of a hundred plus. The Bride of Christ
 
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Josephus agrees with you as do I. :oldthumbsup:

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted



PREFACE

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ; the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION ; together with the impressive and terrific grandeur of the events themselves -- are circumstances which must always insure to the subject of the following pages more than ordinary degrees of interest and importance.
============
Revelation would also then be the fulfillment of Daniel and Revelation correct?
Is Jerusalem 70 ad the great City in Revelation?

  1. *
    Yes
    6 vote(s)
    24.0%
  2. No
    13 vote(s)
    52.0%
  3. Maybe
    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  4. Never thought about it that way
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. I don't know, but am willing to learn
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Why does it matter?
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Other [please explaine]
    4 vote(s)
    16.0%
  8. It is Rome
    1 vote(s)
    4.0%

What great City is being symbolized in Revelation?
I whole heatedly agree withe first paragraph. And that line of demarcation. That is not however the line of demarcation when the saints start overcoming the military conquests and subjugation against them. That was clearly prophesied to start to occur after the end of the four empires. So no I do not agree that the beast or the city that rules over all the kingdoms in in Revelation is Jerusalem. It is Rome. I put this timeline on another thread. There is about a chapters worth of prophecy in Revelation about 70 AD.

Daniel chap. 2 has a prophecy about 4 empires naming Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon as the 1st. In it the Messiah comes during the 4th empire and destroys it. Then the invisible kingdom of God illustrated as a great mountain fills the earth.

Daniel 7 repeats this prophecy and adds details to it. Notably. That the 4th empire will have, as yet 10 unspecified emperors, followed by an 11th that will start a war against the saints that overcomes them for 1260 days, (of years.) Or 1260 years. Then afterwards the meek inheriting earth. Becoming the dominate influence in it.

Daniel 8 names the 2nd and 3rd empires as the Medo\Persian and Greek empires. It also prophesies the beginning of time of wrath starting near the end of the Greek empire against ancient Israel. A time that has an appointed end.

Daniel 9 contains a prophecy of exactly when the Messiah would come. 490 years from the time of one of 3 decrees by the Medo\Persian emperors to restore and build Jerusalem. 490 years following one of these decrees was the year Jesus was revealed as the Messiah to ancient Israel, when John baptized him. It also contains a prophecy about the appointed time of the end mentioned in Daniel 8. That the end of that age would come when the Messiah came. The city and sanctuary would be destroyed by the son of the emperor.

Daniel 11, as prophecy, goes through all the emperors of the Medo\Persian empire and the Greek kings of Syria and Egypt's wars with the land of Israel stuck in between the belligerents. It provides more details of the beginning of the time of wrath when the Greek king of Syria, Antiochus Epiphanes enslaved and destroyed the Jewish people. It prophesies the rise of Herod the Great in verses 36-39. Then Octavian's, (Augustus Caesar's) march through Judea, to conquer the last part of the Greek Empire.

Daniel 12 is a prophecy mostly about the end of that age and the war that destroyed Ancient Israel. It also prophesies the deliverance of the believers from the war and their ministry of bringing people to the light of the Messiah.

Among many other prophecies in the New Testament. Matt. 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 speak of the war in Judea coming to that generation and the end of the Old Covenant age. The apostles letters to the churches contain interpretations of just how that was going to come pass and what would follow. These interpretations reflect the imperfect understanding of those events, future to them. Jesus directly told them this in Acts 1:6. That they would not be given an understanding of the times and seasons that lay ahead of them.

Revelations contains 2 or 3 separate visions of the four empires in Daniel with added details about the Roman one. Chapters 6:9-7:8; 14:1-5 speak of the murder of the prophets and the saints in ancient Israel, then its destruction in 70 AD because of this. Then the believers deliverance from that war. Both of these words are followed by prophecy of the great harvest of souls in the Roman Empire and the great persecution and tribulations visited upon the believers by the Romans. This is followed up by prophecies of 7 judgments against the empire. Specifically against city of Rome along with three woes against that city. (It was sacked three times and depopulated by invading armies.)

In Revelation the 4 empires are illustrated as four horseman. Then later again using the same animal illustrations as Daniel 7. John received these visions during the reign of the 6th emperor of Rome. Vespasian would be the 7th emperor. During his reign as per Daniel 9, his son, (the prince) destroyed Jerusalem. Titus become the 8th emperor. He is referred to as the "beast " because he personifies the age of the four gentile empires; as he like Nebuchadnezzar, the 1st emperor of the 1st empire destroyed Jerusalem. John is told the 10 and the 11th as of yet unspecified emperors of Daniel 2 & 7 lay out ahead of these first 8. If you start with the next emperor as the 1st of the ten after Titus, which is Domitian. The beginning of the reign of Septimius Severus in 193 AD precisely fulfills what Daniel 7 said about that 11th emperor. In case you did not know this. The Roman Empire did not end until what had been its capitol since 333 AD, Constantinople, was conquered and the last Roman Emperor killed in 1453 AD. It was 1260 years from the beginning of Severus's reign until 1453 AD. Three emperors fell before him in one year. He started the all out war against the saints. Made the worlds first blasphemy law. Death penalty for converting to Christianity. The number 1260 is repeated 5 times in Revelation regarding the reign of the Roman Empire over believers and its war against them.

Revelation 13:11-17 prophesies the permanent split of the Roman empire into and eastern and western branches after the death of the emperor Constantine. The two horns of the lamb illustrate this. Its appearance as a lamb illustrates its claims of Christianity and it speaking with the mouth of a dragon illustrates its true nature. For instance. When the emperor Justinian codified Roman imperial decree's and laws in the 6th century. It was the death penalty to be baptized as an adult who accepted Christ. Christians were baptized into the imperial church as babies. To be re-baptized as an adult because you became what you thought was a true Christian was treason against the empire. The kings of Europe followed suit with their own imperial churches. These churches were set up exactly as the official churches of communist nations. Not to promote Christianity but to control it and subjugated it to the will of the king or emperor.

Revelation 19 prophesies the end of the age of the four gentile empires in 1453 AD. Revelation 20-22, the age of promise we now live in. The majority of these 3 chapters verses are taken out of the 100+ chapters of Old Testament prophecies about this age of promise. In it. Gog and Magog illustrate the nations and peoples, past, present and future since 1453 AD who seek to stop the growth of the influence of the invisible kingdom of God in the earth. They are defeated politically and in war in chapter 19. As in Daniel 7 the saints became dominate in the earth over the forces of evil due to their influence in the nations founded upon their ideals. The change that took place in the world that enabled this was the Bible getting into the hands of the general public for the first time in human history. This began to happen immediately following the end of the age of the four gentile empires. Since that time the nations most influenced by the Bible have come out on top in wars directed at stopping the growth of the free world founded by Bible reading peoples. The rest of highly illustrative statements in chap. 19 illustrate the happenings in the world since that time. Rev. 21-22 taken directly out of OT chapters like Isaiah 54, 60, 61, 65 and many others illustrate the bride of Christ, the wife of God, believers in the free nations of the world. The things made available to them during this time period as opposed to the ages beforehand. Given as promises. But, promises that have to be won in a world that is still hostile to their existence. Not wanting the dominance of their influence, and their judgments of right and wrong to prevail in the world.

End Time Prophecy
 
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