mmksparbud
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Make a list of all your SDA doctrines, you will not find that combo in the Early Church Fathers, Who
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That is ok, remember we do not hear voice inflection online.
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Romans 14:5-8 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
5 Some people might believe that one day is more important than another. And others might believe that every day is the same. Everyone should be sure about their beliefs in their own mind. 6 Those who think one day is more important than other days are doing that for the Lord. And those who eat all kinds of food are doing that for the Lord. Yes, they give thanks to God for that food. And those who refuse to eat some foods do that for the Lord. They also give thanks to God.
7 We don’t live or die just for ourselves. 8 If we live, we are living for the Lord. And if we die, we are dying for the Lord. So living or dying, we belong to the Lord.
Acts 3:1 [ Peter Heals a Crippled Man ] One day Peter and John went to the Temple area. It was three o’clock in the afternoon, which was the time for the daily Temple prayer service.
Luke 19:47 And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,
Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Hebrews 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Me: it is my guess that Gentiles worshiped on Sunday in Paul's time. And, most Jewish People on Saturday. There is historical record somewhere that they met daily for prayer, sharing, worship,, etc., As you can see that was a Jewish habit. So, allowing many or some to worship on Sunday aka first day of the week was not a problem for them.
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Interesting -
1. why do you avoid the Bible in your challenge?
2. Why do you post as if everyone on this section of the board is SDA other than you?
Paul said this --
Acts 20
9 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.
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I met the challenge. I am not SDA, just well studied. Concerning Religious Subjects I study on a Masters' level. I read tons of Thesis by Scholars. I have witnessed and dialogued with many groups. I have read and corresponded with SDA Scholars and read their works. I have done original research. I broke many topics like Semi-Arain and Anti-Trinitans. As a Master Teacher, I taught K through Master Candidates in various colleges. I have taught Teachers on many subjects.
In case I did not answer that Challenge restate it.
Thanks,
Daniel
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Interesting -
1. why do you avoid the Bible in your challenge?
2. Why do you post as if everyone on this section of the board is SDA other than you?
Paul said this --
Acts 20
9 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.
1. What challenge did you meet??
I did not state any challenge -- I was just asking two questions -
1. why do you avoid the Bible in your challenge?
2. Why do you post as if everyone on this section of the board is SDA other than you?
To Expand on and illustrate question 1 --- we have your OP
Instead of saying "you will not find that combo in the scriptures" you choose a "not the scriptures" target "ECFs"
To expand on question 2 -
Your title and OP appear to single out SDAs as if they are the only other people on the forum. "of all your SDA doctrines" implies that nobody else is here other than SDAs. Why do that?
To expand on Acts 20
You appear to assume that Paul is wrong about his prediction that error will come in "immediately after my departure" as if ECFs writing centuries later could not have a single thought that was in error. Why do that?
By not addressing any of these points raised you force me to repeat and expand on them to try and get you to focus on the response so we can have dialogue
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If you want start another thread meeting my challenge for your church.
1. why do you avoid the Bible in your challenge?
Like anyone else they read their views into the Scriptures.
They claim that their views are those of the early church.
The early church fathers were taught by the Apostles themselves as such represent How the early church understood the Bible. It is about what the early church fathers taught.
2. Why do you post as if everyone on this section of the board is SDA other than you?
Huh, not sure I think I answered your question in number 1.
I am still developing my beliefs using historical sources to understand the Scriptures.
1. why do you avoid the Bible in your challenge?
Like anyone else they read their views into the Scriptures.
They claim that their views are those of the early church.
The early church fathers were taught by the Apostles themselves as such represent How the early church understood the Bible. It is about what the early church fathers taught.
2. Why do you post as if everyone on this section of the board is SDA other than you?
Huh, not sure I think I answered your question in number 1.
I am still developing my beliefs using historical sources to understand the Scriptures.
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Well, one doctrine, belief or teaching at a time should be considered, otherwise it could be distracting.
Secondly, would you consider those of the NT , such as Peter, James, John, Peter, Jude, part of the ECF or do you exclude these? Same goes for the OT members of the church (Acts 7:38), such as Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Job, Moses, Joshua, Samuel, and the prophets (Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremoah, etc), and kings such as, David, Solomon, etc, do you count them as part of the ECF?, or are you narrowly defining the ECF to anyone after the original Apostles died?
Also, I do have a question, in regards what you would accept as ECF, and in how many ECF does a doctrine have to be found, and does every doctrine have to be found in every ECF, when the ECF all believed and taught different things on differing subjects (yes, this may be documented, but is not the point of this thread).
So, Seventh-day Adventists, having read the material, teach that there are 3 eternal Persons/Beings that always have co-existed together:
[1] the Father
[2] the Son (Word)
[3] the Holy Ghost/Spirit (another Comforter)
"... The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the eternal Godhead ..." - Ms 45, May 14, 1904, par. 16; May 14, 1904
"… The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. ..." - Lt 12, January 21, 1901, par. 10; January 21, 1901
“... Lead them to understand that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are heaven’s loving, powerful agencies for the accomplishment of the work of representing God in the world. ...” - Lt 93, 1900 (July 3, 1900) par. 3
"... There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ. ..." - Ms 21, 1906 (November 1905) par. 11
"... Those who are baptized in the threefold name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, at the very entrance of their Christian life declare publicly that they have accepted the invitation, “Come out from among them, and be ye separate, ... and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.” [2 Corinthians 6:17, 18.] “Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and of the Spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of the Lord.” [2 Corinthians 7:1.] “If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.” [Colossians 3:1.] Ms27a-1900 (April 19, 1900) par. 8 …" - Ms 27a, 1900 (April 19, 1900) par. 8
"... Here is where the work of the Holy Ghost comes in, after your baptism. You are baptized in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. You are raised up out of the water to live henceforth in newness of life—to live a new life. You are born unto God, and you stand under the sanction and the power of the three holiest beings in heaven, who are able to keep you from falling. You are to reveal that you are dead to sin; your life is hid with Christ in God. Hidden “with Christ in God”—wonderful transformation. This is a most precious promise. When I feel oppressed and hardly know how to relate myself toward the work that God has given me to do, I just call upon the three great Worthies, and say: You know I cannot do this work in my own strength. You must work in me, and by me, and through me, sanctifying my tongue, sanctifying my spirit, sanctifying my words, and bringing me into a position where my spirit shall be susceptible to the movings of the Holy Spirit of God upon my mind and character. Ms95-1906 (October 20, 1906) par. 29
And this is the prayer that every one of us may offer. ..." - Ms 95, 1906 (October 20, 1906) par. 29
"... All the intelligences of heaven are in this army. And more than angels are in the ranks. The Holy Spirit, the representative of the Captain of the Lord's host, comes down to direct the battle. Our infirmities may be many, our sins and mistakes grievous; but the grace of God is for all who seek it with contrition. The power of Omnipotence is enlisted in behalf of those who trust in God. {DA 352.2} ..." - Desire of Ages 352.2 (1898)
The OT teaches this:
Gen_19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Isa_48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Zec_13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
The NT teaches this:
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
Col 2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Others, afterward taught this:
Tertullian (Adversus Praxeam, section II) stated:
"... the three Persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost ..." - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/0160-0220,_Tertullianus,_Adversus_Praxeam_[Schaff],_EN.pdf
"... I am bound to acknowledge, from the necessity of the case, that He who issues a command is different from Him who executes it. ..." - (Against Praxeas, chapter 12) - Tertullian (Roberts-Donaldson)
Ignatius (Ignatius to the Philadelphians) stated:
"... confesses the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost ..." - St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Philadelphians (Roberts-Donaldson translation)
Is this enough to substantiate the first point?
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When giving quotes please give the links to the primary sources, so they can be checked in context. Mrs White can be linked to at the Ellen White Estate site, where one can search all her writings.
In a later post, I did narrow it down to start with the investigated judgement.
No the Apostles are not ECF. Some of the ECF were alive and taught by the Apostles. They would tell us how the teachings of the Apostles were understood as historical documents.
Their differences are insignificant. And, since the SDA like the LDS claim to be teaching what the early church believed, then yes all their teachings, doctrines must be found in those historical sources.
I already granted that the Mainline SDA believes in a version of the Trinity elsewhere.
“Third Person of the Godhead” For most Adventists, Ellen White’s published statements are conclusive as to her teaching on this question. In The Desire of Ages she writes that “sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power” (p. 671). This is how the text has read since its first publication in 1898. So how do opponents escape its natural interpretation that there are three distinct persons in the Godhead? First, by suggesting that the expression found its way into The Desire of Ages through the influence of Ellen White’s assistants and/or Herbert Lacey or W. W. Prescott.1 Second, by pointing out
that the words “third person” are not capitalized in the original 1898 printing, signifying to them that the word “person” is used in a more “general sense.”2 Third, by suggesting that while there are in reality only two persons in the Godhead, “the net effect for us is that there are three divine beings,” since the Holy Spirit is called “another Comforter.” In this view, the Holy Spirit is “the Spirit (presence) of the Father and/or Christ,” and not in actuality a distinct third divine person.3 We will not pursue the third interpretation, except to look later at a further Ellen White statement that speaks of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, as “three distinct agencies” working together on behalf of humanity. But the first two observations are aimed at the authenticity of the text—our interest in this presentation. Can this passage in The Desire of Ages be trusted as representing what Ellen White actually penned? What does the original manuscript say? The White Estate often receives this type of inquiry from persons who question the reading or teaching of a published statement. Some are surprised when we tell them that Ellen White did not write out her chapters by longhand as they appear in books like Steps to Christ and those in the Conflict of the Ages Series.
https://media1.whiteestate.org/legacy/issues/TheTrinity.pdf
When quoting Mrs White, you need to check context, original document when possible.
The current edition of writings have been revised to fit mainline SDA current belief in the Trinity. In the past they were Semi- Arians and Arians. In fact, James White (Ellen's Husband) was a Christian Connextion Minister(an Arian).
Please stick with the historical sources of the Early Church Fathers.
Also, do not use I John 5:7 with Jehovah's Witnesses or with other Arians. Since, even they know it was an addition to the NT.
But keeping this prescriptive rule inviolate, still some opportunity must be given
for reviewing (the statements of heretics), with a view to the instruction and protection of divers
persons; were it only that it may not seem that each perversion of the truth is condemned without
examination, and simply prejudged;7783 especially in the case of this heresy, which supposes itself
to possess the pure truth, in thinking that one cannot believe in One Only God in any other way
than by saying that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are the very selfsame Person. As if in
this way also one were not All, in that All are of One, by unity (that is) of substance; while the
mystery of the dispensation7784 is still guarded, which distributes the Unity into a Trinity, placing
in their order7785 the three Persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost: three, however, not
in condition,7786 but in degree;7787 not in substance, but in form; not in power, but in aspect;7788 yet
of one substance, and of one condition, and of one power, inasmuch as He is one God, from whom
these degrees and forms and aspects are reckoned, under the name of the Father, and of the Son,
and of the Holy Ghost.7789 How they are susceptible of number without division, will be shown as...
http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/0160-0220,_Tertullianus,_Adversus_Praxeam_[Schaff],_EN.pdf
Thanks for the interesting perspective.
Thank you for giving the links, as I asked.
I already granted that the Main line SDA believes in the Trinity. While in Denver at Lowery AFB(late 1970's) --- I worked closely with their Missionaries and Doctors of Theology. When learning about a group, I use only primary sources and people in the know. I knew Erwin Roy Gane back then.
E. GANE M.A. Thesis. Ellen G. White a Trinitarian Monotheist
Trinity
I also, knew some who became pastors and professors in SDA today.
Valentine: Trinity -- How clear views of Jesus developed in the Adventist Church
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Try to find the investigated judgement in the ECF.
"Christ’s Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary Z24 There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle that the Lord set up and not humans. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. At His ascension, He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and, began His intercessory ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the holy place of the earthly sanctuary. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Lev. 16; Num. 14:34; Ezek. 4:6; Dan. 7:9"
https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf
This will be set up as a thread of its own here: Try to find the investigated judgement in the ECF.
"Christ’s Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary Z24 There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle that the Lord set up and not humans. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. At His ascension, He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and, began His intercessory ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the holy place of the earthly sanctuary. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Lev. 16; Num. 14:34; Ezek. 4:6; Dan. 7:9"
https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf
This will be set up as a thread of its own here: Try to find the investigated judgement in the ECF.
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Or choose the sola scriptura model and show it in scripture.
OR be willing to include the actual Bible Writers..NT writers in your list of "early church fathers".
OR admit that while it is true that the Bible teaches it - later errors came into the church where it was no longer popular to teach it just as Paul predicted in Acts 20
Acts 20
29 I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.
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Your claim is that those who wrote in Latin and Greek following the NT writers are more accurate and less to be distorted than the actual word of God?? seriously??
Consider this historical source then. It is the Gospel of Mark and the teaching of Christ -- two things the ECFs never complain about.
Mark 7
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?”
6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
There the tradition of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai - is being "hammered" sola scripture - by Christ Himself.
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ECF would tell us how the teachings of the Apostles were understood as historical documents.
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The challenge of this thread is for you all to find your teachings in historical documents outside the bible. Looks like you all are failing, my friend.
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Ah, who do you think made copies of the NT manuscripts? Hint: it was educated Christians which included the Church Fathers. If you can not trust there writings, then there is no reason for you to trust that the text of the NT was not corrupted too.
CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, IV.12 ... - New Advent
www.newadvent.org › ... › Against Heresies (St. Irenaeus)
For the tradition of the elders themselves, which they pretended to observe from the law, was contrary to the law given by Moses. Wherefore also Esaias ...
CHURCH FATHERS: Commentary on Matthew ... - New Advent
home.newadvent.org › fathers
Then there came to Him from Jerusalem Pharisees and scribes, saying, Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they wash not their ...
CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 51 on Matthew (Chrysostom)
www.newadvent.org › ... › Homilies on Matthew (Chrysostom)
But mark, I pray you, how even by the question itself they are convicted; in not saying, Why do they transgress the law of Moses, but, the tradition of the elders.
CHURCH FATHERS: Commentary on Matthew ... - New Advent
www.newadvent.org › ... › Commentary on Matthew (Origen
Then there came to Him from Jerusalem Pharisees and scribes, saying, Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they wash not their ...
CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, IV.12 (St ... - New Advent
w.w.w.newadvent.org › fathers
For the tradition of the elders themselves, which they pretended to observe from the law, was contrary to the law given by Moses. Wherefore also Esaias ...
CHURCH FATHERS: Harmony of the Gospels, Book II ...
www.newadvent.org › ... › The Harmony of the Gospels (Augustine)
Then came to Him scribes and Pharisees from Jerusalem, saying, Why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they wash not their hands ...
CHURCH FATHERS: Conference 15 (John Cassian)
www.newadvent.org › Fathers of the Church › Conferences (John Cassian)
The previous order of our discourse had brought us to the exposition of the system of spiritual gifts, which we have learned from the tradition of the Elders is a ...
CHURCH FATHERS: Harmony of the Gospels, Book II, Chapter 48 ...
home.newadvent.org › fathers
Then came to Him scribes and Pharisees from Jerusalem, saying, Why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they wash not their hands ...
CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, IV.9 (St. Irenaeus)
www.newadvent.org › ... › Against Heresies (St. Irenaeus)
... declare to those who were accusing His disciples of not observing the tradition of the elders: Why do you make void the law of God by reason of your tradition?
CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 36 (St. Augustine) - New Advent
www.newadvent.org › Fathers of the Church › Letters of St. Augustine
Moreover, as to his assertion, that the reason of the apostles eating on the seventh day (a thing forbidden by the tradition of the elders) was, that the time for their ...
CHURCH FATHERS: Conference 2 (John Cassian)
www.newadvent.org › Fathers of the Church › Conferences (John Cassian)
... or from the tradition of the Elders, if our crafty enemy makes a wrongful use of their grey hairs in order to deceive younger men: but without any cloak of shame ...
CHURCH FATHERS: Exposition on Psalm 119 (Augustine)
www.newadvent.org › ... › Expositions on the Psalms (Augustine)
Matthew 15:2 Behold the transgression of the tradition of the elders is objected to Him. But He who was wiser than His elders, let us hear what answer He made ...
CHURCH FATHERS: On the Trinity, Book IV (St. Augustine)
www.newadvent.org › Fathers of the Church › On the Trinity
... itself of the body of the Lord is found to have been brought in so many days to the birth, as the authority of the church maintains upon the tradition of the elders.
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Your claim is that those who wrote in Latin and Greek following the NT writers are more accurate and less to be distorted than the actual word of God?? seriously??
You are conflating "trust someone to copy the same Greek text accurately as another Greek text copy of it" with "whatever ideas come to mind writing prose also infallible as scripture if one can -- copy --".
Equivocating between those two ideas is not logical
Just because person A -- can "copy" does not mean person B -- can make stuff up and be considered infallible. Not even if both live during the same century and are contemporaries.
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Fruit of the tree. You are claiming the tree bears bad fruit.
Well fruit of that tree is both the Church Fathers and Copies of the Bible.
Latin translation did not come into play before Jerome, many years after the early church fathers.
So, it is common sense and very logical.
If A is rotten fruit and therefore can only produce rotten output.
And, A produced B & C therefore both B & C is rotten output.
Now, if A is good fruit and therefore produces good out put....
Well fruit of that tree is both the Church Fathers and Copies of the Bible.
Latin translation did not come into play before Jerome, many years after the early church fathers.
So, it is common sense and very logical.
If A is rotten fruit and therefore can only produce rotten output.
And, A produced B & C therefore both B & C is rotten output.
Now, if A is good fruit and therefore produces good out put....
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