IS THE HUMAN WILL FREE TO CHOOSE JESUS?

"But is it our choice that did it, or not...?"

Yes. God offers. Man accepts or rejects...CHOOSES!

Ron Gurley said:

"But is it our choice that did it, or not...?"

Yes. God offers. Man accepts or rejects...CHOOSES!

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Scripture for or against that (I suspect there is both, which is part of our problem)...?

See my post #6 for supporting Scripture.

Si_monfaith said:

Some believe that the human will is free to choose Jesus. Doesn't this belief betray one's trust in his will rather than the will of God in order to be saved?

Moreover, isn't the view that the human will is free leads one to trust in his/her works to be saved rather than trust only in the works of Jesus to be saved?

Are there any views in Christianity that address this issue apart from unconditional election, conditional election and the works-based salvation of Catholicism?

What does truth in the Bible say as to whether the human will is free or not?

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In Eastern Orthodox theology the human will must compete between its natural will and it's gnomic willing. In layman's terms the natural human will would always act in accordance with its divine principles. It would freely lead one to Christ without coercion. But due to fallen nature and partial knowledge, the gnomic inclinations towards deliberation based on imperfect information can lead to a contrary path. Self-determination means the rational creature is free to choose what it wishes but it was not meant to be directionless. The idea of the Gnomic will being inclined towards sin is not that it's intrinsic in man, only that it's a manner or mode of willing that requires deliberation based on the imperfect and partial knowledge available. Once you formulate your intentions based on ignorant deliberation and act upon it you actually strip yourself of free self determination towards the Creator. This is because these imperfect deliberation's and decisions is a form of coercion and manipulation which has unknowingly steered you away from your best interests.

Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.
Proverbs 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Proverbs 20:24 Man's goings are of the Lord; how can a man then understand his own way?

Of course, what the Bible has to say on this subject will be of little consequence. People will believe what they want to believe.

it is not the ability to choose, but the reason why people choose christ.

Si_monfaith said:

Some believe that the human will is free to choose Jesus. Doesn't this belief betray one's trust in his will rather than the will of God in order to be saved?

Moreover, isn't the view that the human will is free leads one to trust in his/her works to be saved rather than trust only in the works of Jesus to be saved?

Are there any views in Christianity that address this issue apart from unconditional election, conditional election and the works-based salvation of Catholicism?

What does truth in the Bible say as to whether the human will is free or not?

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God spiritually CALLS/DRAWS ALL Mankind. Each Man's spirit must CHOOSE ("free will") to ACCEPT God's gracious provisions unto the Salvation Event /Sanctification Process...OR...REJECT God unto eternal spiritual separation and JUST sentencing.

Si_monfaith said:

Some believe that the human will is free to choose Jesus. Doesn't this belief betray one's trust in his will rather than the will of God in order to be saved?

Moreover, isn't the view that the human will is free leads one to trust in his/her works to be saved rather than trust only in the works of Jesus to be saved?

Are there any views in Christianity that address this issue apart from unconditional election, conditional election and the works-based salvation of Catholicism?

What does truth in the Bible say as to whether the human will is free or not?

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If the human will could will itself to the Kingdom of God would it had been necessary for Christ to have appeared.

Faith is way beyond the human will and it is the door of faith which is Christ and if you are called to that door, He will knock.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Only those who are called hear.

Hethatreadethit

Si_monfaith said:

God can never be seen as the author of sin or evil regardless of the truth that all human choices originate in Him. Why?

If man hadn't chosen the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of eden, man could not know that whatever God did was evil or sin.

It was not God's will for man to possess the knowledge of good and evil.

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I would amend that last sentence to say "it was not God's will for man to prematurely possess the knowledge of good and evil."

A&E were born with 2 spiritual characteristics allowed by God:
1. "free will" to decide and choose
2. "sin nature": the innate natural tendency of Man's spirit to turn away from God and toward self.

Jennifer Rothnie said:

I have a friend who, after coming to an understanding of the gospel and agreeing with it (believing the message) still refused to actually come to Christ and repent/turn to God for about six months. Her reasoning was that if the Calvinist theory of irresistible grace was true, then she would not be able to delay or 'resist.'

After months of this holding out and purposefully resisting, she did finally reason that that was a very stupid excuse not to come to Christ. If she died the next day, explaining to God that she was disproving Calvinism by holding out wasn't going to keep her from hell. So, she did come to Christ/die to self and turn to God/life by the Spirit in faith at that juncture - from the realization that holding out was risky and dumb, not from any further revelation of Jesus' glory or further understanding of the gospel.

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Well maybe I just never knew the Gospel right and immediately accepted when I did, I don't know. I think Calvinism is wrong just for the record

Hethatreadethit said:

If the human will could will itself to the Kingdom of God would it had been necessary for Christ to have appeared.

Faith is way beyond the human will and it is the door of faith which is Christ and if you are called to that door, He will knock.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Only those who are called hear.

Hethatreadethit

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Hearing, in this sense, is to listen/attend to what one hears. Note that they need to hear & respond (open the door) - not just hear.

"But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did!
“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.” Rom 10:16-17

It's not just hearing, but accepting the message (opening the door to Christ in response.)

Mark 1 (NASB)...Jesus Preaches / First Sermon? in Galilee
14 Now after John (the Baptizer) had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the "gospel of God", 15 and saying,
“The time (PROPHECY) is fulfilled, and the "kingdom of God" is AT HAND;
(Jesus the Divine Messiah has come down/was sent dpwn from the heavenly realms to save Man = "gospel" = "GOOD NEWS!)
repent (turn to God) and BELIEVE in the "gospel".”

Si_monfaith said:

Some believe that the human will is free to choose Jesus.

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Of course it is.

Si_monfaith said:

Doesn't this belief betray one's trust in his will rather than the will of God in order to be saved?

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Of course not. What point is there of having such a thing as redemption if we are not involved?

Did Christians have this debate before Calvin introduced it?

Ron Gurley said:

I don't get it.
OP: "free will"
Discussion: Calvinistic "pre-destination"

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Paul states He was chosen while still in His Mothers Womb.
We know Christ was Predestine, and John the Baptist.
This is just a perspective, how about certain individuals who were part of God's plans being called from the Womb?
John The Baptist recieved the Holy Spirit in His Mothers Belly.
Why limit God?
Could some Prophets or other Men of God be chosen?
We know God is no respecter of persons,yet He still chooses people to carry out His Will.
Those who are not called for His purposes Have a choice.
Why do we look in two directions ,when God is unlimited.
Elect not elect is a limitation on our unlimited God.

now faith said:

Paul states He was chosen while still in His Mothers Womb.
We know Christ was Predestine, and John the Baptist.
This is just a perspective, how about certain individuals who were part of God's plans being called from the Womb?
John The Baptist recieved the Holy Spirit in His Mothers Belly.
Why limit God?
Could some Prophets or other Men of God be chosen?
We know God is no respecter of persons,yet He still chooses people to carry out His Will.
Those who are not called for His purposes Have a choice.
Why do we look in two directions ,when God is unlimited.
Elect not elect is a limitation on our unlimited God.

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Many non-Calvinists still believe God elects certain people to service for the sake of His eternal plan. And that God sends His Holy Spirit at times to influence people for the sake of that plan (Saul, John the Baptist, etc.)

1stcenturylady said:

Did Christians have this debate before Calvin introduced it?

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Calvin was not the original author.
St Auginstine
Quote:
He believed that the existence of goodness allows evil to exist, through the fault of humans. Augustine also influenced John Calvin, who supported Augustine's view that evil is the result of free will and argued that sin corrupts humans, requiring God's grace to give moral guidance.
UnQoute
Source Wikipedia.

John Wycliff had the same beliefs , not as much in the Genva translation , but in His cleft notes.
The Geneva Bible was the Puritian Bible of choice.
Puritan doctrine called for works based salvation , and limited atonement.

It would be a great day Sister if we did not have such divides among the Body.
Soon we will know all things , when Christ returns.

Jennifer Rothnie said:

Many non-Calvinists still believe God elects certain people to service for the sake of His eternal plan. And that God sends His Holy Spirit at times to influence people for the sake of that plan (Saul, John the Baptist, etc.)

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We have to because it was fortold in God's Word.
It make sense to me anyway.
God Bless