hostility for Trump

Presbyterian Continuist

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Yes absolutely. It is of the spirit of Christ to be discriminant in who you allow in your country based on their country of origin. If 20% of a country are Islamist supremacists and want to use jihad to conquer the free world. Then heck yes, if your a person of good will in Christ you will be very discriminatory in regards to that country about who you will and will not allow in.
Same with any other country that is beset by human maladies. The worse the maladies. Whether it be diseases, criminality, dangerous and destructive ideologies. The more discriminatory a good and just government has to be in who they will and not allow in.
In our local morning newspaper in the "sideswipe" section (the bit where there are snippets of unusual, often humous paragraphs), there was a notice which said, "Vote for Animal" with a picture of Animal the muppet, and underneath it says, "You'd probably get a muppet anyway!"
 
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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

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As my profile says, I live in Australia & not a US citizen, so I get rather mystified by the personal vitriol that is expressed towards President Trump. Of course it happens here too but basically we are just too busy playing cricket & football to get too worked up about our pollies.

The first US president I became aware of as a young teenager was Kennedy ... and yes I remember where I was when he was shot. So over the years I have taken a distant interest in US politics, becoming more aware of things in recent years through forums such as this. Unless I am beginning to 'disremember' there is not a time I can recall when there was such personal animus for a president.

I suppose everyone is aware of Trump's character flaws but I am surprised how often he is abused on a personal level by those Christians who dislike him ... which actually sounds like hate to me. In Australia there is a tendency to avoid attacks on a politician's character though there have been notable exceptions (eg Barnaby Joyce).

It seems those who engage in attacking Trump's character, rather than just objectively criticizing his policies, do so on the basis that it is "the truth". I'm not actually asking whether it is "the truth" that Trump is all the bad things people say, but whether as Christians we ought to adopt a different approach.
The bottom line is this. There are many Christians in the United States who hate Trump more than they love God and their country.
 
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childeye 2

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OP was asking about vitriol aimed at Trump. Do you deny that there is more of that from the left than there is from the right?
I don't accept the application of a left/right dichotomy as a descriptive tool for human vanity. Moreover, I would need to see an instance of "what is being called vitriol" towards Trump, before I could comment, but I am certain it's not from Trump supporters.
I agree it's a human issue, I work to correct people on the right myself.
A study into what vanity is and how it manifests would clear up much of this.
 
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childeye 2

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Yes absolutely. It is of the spirit of Christ to be discriminant in who you allow in your country based on their country of origin.
Christ never taught that or even implied that. It violates love others as yourself.
If 20% of a country are Islamist supremacists and want to use jihad to conquer the free world. Then heck yes, if your a person of good will in Christ you will be very discriminatory in regards to that country about who you will and will not allow in.
Same with any other country that is beset by human maladies. The worse the maladies. Whether it be diseases, criminality, dangerous and destructive ideologies. The more discriminatory a good and just government has to be in who they will and not allow in.
This is a red herring logical fallacy argument. The people Trump was specifically referring to were people who already had temporary protected status.

So my argument stands. It's a sentiment of discrimination based on one's country of origin which is classic racism. It's no accusation.
 
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childeye 2

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I also live in Australia, and basically what the hatred of Trump stems from, is people's inability to think for themselves. That's pretty much it, in a nutshell.
I think that Trump hatred is probably more about being frustrated with Trump followers not being able to think for their selves. Trump says Obama's not born in America and they believe it. Trump says the Democrats hate their country and his followers believe Him. Even Trump says he could shoot someone on the street and not lose a vote.

And to be sure, now with evidence mounting that Trump withheld security aid to the Ukraine because he wanted Zelensky to promote the theory that Russia was framed by the Democrats and the media and the Ukraine, they probably don't care. People on this site who are on record saying it was a lie invented by people who hate Trump, will probably next be saying there's nothing wrong with forcing a country to spread false narratives to help his political campaign. And they'll probably justify that with the hypocritical assertion that the Democrats do it.
 
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childeye 2

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Behavior is by nature, personal.
Only in the carnal aspect of the mind. The spiritual minded want to be corrected in their behavior, because it's not personal.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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Christ never taught that or even implied that. It violates love others as yourself.
This is a red herring logical fallacy argument. The people Trump was specifically referring to were people who already had temporary protected status.
Bull, total bull. You'll be advocating opening up your house to all the homeless in your neighborhood to let them sleep in your house with your small children then? Why not? Because there is a 50% chance of them being molested or worse. That is why.
The word Agape means good will. A person who's will is committed to what is best. It does not mean "love" as you define it. It does not abrogate you of your responsibilities towards your own children's welfare in favor of "helping" the homeless. In fact good will demands you keep your responsibility towards your children as paramount before God. Good will towards God and its fellow man for a nations leaders does not alleviate their responsibility towards their nation. Good will in fact compels them to take on their responsibilities.

Case and point. As of 9-11. 30,000 American citizens have died at the hands of illegal aliens. These are mostly innocent people who died in accidents with illegal aliens. At the hands of drunk illegal alien drivers or were murdered. That is just the number recorded by local, state and federal jurisdictions also. Many jurisdictions and states do not record if the person involved in the crime or accident were illegal aliens so the number could go as high as 100,000. The lie your propagating about what the scripture demands is obvious. It is not "love" that government officials were motivated by that caused the deaths of 30,000 mostly innocent American citizens. In fact it was the opposite of love. It was selfishness and a refusal to take upon themselves their God given responsibility as government officials to properly police our borders.

In the case of leftist fakes who love nothing more than to virtue signal about their own goodness and charitableness by demanding our government not properly police our borders. Their fake public "charity" came at the expense of 30,000 American citizens. This is why we have to be supremely careful in discerning what kind of principles God has ordained individuals to walk by from the principles God demands human government walk by. They are not the same and are both sets of principles if properly applied are intended to bring about the general welfare of everyone; including the welfare of corrupt neighboring nations.
 
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Kaon

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As my profile says, I live in Australia & not a US citizen, so I get rather mystified by the personal vitriol that is expressed towards President Trump. Of course it happens here too but basically we are just too busy playing cricket & football to get too worked up about our pollies.

The first US president I became aware of as a young teenager was Kennedy ... and yes I remember where I was when he was shot. So over the years I have taken a distant interest in US politics, becoming more aware of things in recent years through forums such as this. Unless I am beginning to 'disremember' there is not a time I can recall when there was such personal animus for a president.

I suppose everyone is aware of Trump's character flaws but I am surprised how often he is abused on a personal level by those Christians who dislike him ... which actually sounds like hate to me. In Australia there is a tendency to avoid attacks on a politician's character though there have been notable exceptions (eg Barnaby Joyce).

It seems those who engage in attacking Trump's character, rather than just objectively criticizing his policies, do so on the basis that it is "the truth". I'm not actually asking whether it is "the truth" that Trump is all the bad things people say, but whether as Christians we ought to adopt a different approach.

Trump has enough evidence to damn his character since before he became president. We don't care if reality stars are sociopaths; look at what reality TV is. However, some of us care when those same sociopaths preside over an entire nation - especially when they have made it historically clear that they do not "care" for specific looking and acting people who happen to be citizens.

It isn't hate; hate is the perceived emotion because the same people do not realize (or feign ignorance) the demagoguery of Donald Trump. So, people have to continuously bring up the same evidence and arguments highlighting what should be clear. Saying it is hate is one of the weakest things to say especially considering imperialism; the West has a generally poor attitude toward recognizing when their leaders are swindling them until decades later - when it is taught as history.

Our Father never gave us a spirit of confusion, He gives us discernment so that we can rightfully judge persons an situations. There is no need to ignore our God-given discernment about a man - especially when he has shown his fruits - simply for the sake of a "good conversation." There is an entire nation at stake, and particular people as targets.
 
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childeye 2

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Bull, total bull. You'll be advocating opening up your house to all the homeless in your neighborhood to let them sleep in your house with your small children then? Why not? Because there is a 50% chance of them being molested or worse. That is why.
The word Agape means good will. A person who's will is committed to what is best. It does not mean "love" as you define it. It does not abrogate you of your responsibilities towards your own children's welfare in favor of "helping" the homeless. In fact good will demands you keep your responsibility towards your children as paramount before God. Good will towards God and its fellow man for a nations leaders does not alleviate their responsibility towards their nation. Good will in fact compels them to take on their responsibilities.

Case and point. As of 9-11. 30,000 American citizens have died at the hands of illegal aliens. These are mostly innocent people who died in accidents with illegal aliens. At the hands of drunk illegal alien drivers or were murdered. That is just the number recorded by local, state and federal jurisdictions also. Many jurisdictions and states do not record if the person involved in the crime or accident were illegal aliens so the number could go as high as 100,000. The lie your propagating about what the scripture demands is obvious. It is not "love" that government officials were motivated by that caused the deaths of 30,000 mostly innocent American citizens. In fact it was the opposite of love. It was selfishness and a refusal to take upon themselves their God given responsibility as government officials to properly police our borders.

In the case of leftist fakes who love nothing more than to virtue signal about their own goodness and charitableness by demanding our government not properly police our borders. Their fake public "charity" came at the expense of 30,000 American citizens. This is why we have to be supremely careful in discerning what kind of principles God has ordained individuals to walk by from the principles God demands human government walk by. They are not the same and are both sets of principles if properly applied are intended to bring about the general welfare of everyone; including the welfare of corrupt neighboring nations.
None of this is relevant to Trumps statement.
 
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childeye 2

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Trump has enough evidence to damn his character since before he became president. We don't care if reality stars are sociopaths; look at what reality TV is. However, some of us care when those same sociopaths preside over an entire nation - especially when they have made it historically clear that they do not "care" for specific looking and acting people who happen to be citizens.

It isn't hate; hate is the perceived emotion because the same people do not realize (or feign ignorance) the demagoguery of Donald Trump. So, people have to continuously bring up the same evidence and arguments highlighting what should be clear. Saying it is hate is one of the weakest things to say especially considering imperialism; the West has a generally poor attitude toward recognizing when their leaders are swindling them until decades later - when it is taught as history.

Our Father never gave us a spirit of confusion, He gives us discernment so that we can rightfully judge persons an situations. There is no need to ignore our God-given discernment about a man - especially when he has shown his fruits - simply for the sake of a "good conversation." There is an entire nation at stake, and particular people as targets.
Way to stand for Truth.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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100% relative and 100% the context of Trumps statements and policies. Your just being reckless false accuser who is slandering him and putting his statements in a fake context of your own making and that tends towards your own self destruction in the end. Exactly as my first post you answered pointed out.
 
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childeye 2

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100% relative and 100% the context of Trumps statements and policies. Your just being reckless false accuser who is slandering him and putting his statements in a fake context of your own making and that tends towards your own self destruction in the end. Exactly as my first post you answered pointed out.
The record shows I have forthrightly corrected you three times concerning the context of Trump's statement that I provided. These are all just the same unproven assertions you posted before being proven wrong. They therefore carry no conviction for me.
 
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martymonster

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I think that Trump hatred is probably more about being frustrated with Trump followers not being able to think for their selves. Trump says Obama's not born in America and they believe it. Trump says the Democrats hate their country and his followers believe Him. Even Trump says he could shoot someone on the street and not lose a vote.

And to be sure, now with evidence mounting that Trump withheld security aid to the Ukraine because he wanted Zelensky to promote the theory that Russia was framed by the Democrats and the media and the Ukraine, they probably don't care. People on this site who are on record saying it was a lie invented by people who hate Trump, will probably next be saying there's nothing wrong with forcing a country to spread false narratives to help his political campaign. And they'll probably justify that with the hypocritical assertion that the Democrats do it.

Yeah, this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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The record shows I have forthrightly corrected you three times concerning the context of Trump's statement that I provided. These are all just the same unproven assertions you posted before being proven wrong. They therefore carry no conviction for me.
You can say and believe what you want. The judgement comes for accepting truth or lies as reality regardless. God is moving in America politically. Get on the wrong side of what he is doing. Regardless of what you believe to be the “facts;” and you will face the consequences of that. That goes for everyone. Christian or non Christian. God’s aim in all of this is to right the world. Policy wise. Trump is doing the things he can do that point us in that direction. Despite all his flaws.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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Bigotry? Prejudice? Wow, no dead giveaway about your political leanings in that statement. Bigotry? Prejudice?
That’s not the definition of bigotry and prejudice? When a person declares people who voted or support Trump don’t or can’t think for themselves? Strange new world of definitions you guys are coming up with.
 
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martymonster

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That’s not the definition of bigotry and prejudice? When a person declares people who voted or support Trump don’t or can’t think for themselves? Strange new world of definitions you guys are coming up with.

Um, I don't have a problem with people who voted for Trump. Um?
 
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