Fellow Protestants. Wwhat do you guys think of these free grace pastors going around saying this?

Neostarwcc said:

So these days YouTube and Roku ..etc. Is virtually full of these free grace pastors that say that the ONLY way to be saved is to completely accept the work that Christ did on the cross for you and trust in absolutely nothing else for your salvation including your baptism, outside works, or getting to heaven basically any other way. ALL other people are going to hell. What do you think about this?

They use Matthew 7:21-23 as "proof" of their claims. But notice what Christ says in verse 21. He says "only those that do the will of my father will enter the kingdom of heaven." We learn what the will of the Father is in John 6:37-40. In it Christ says that you have to be given to him from God the Father to be saved (see verse 37). In other words your predestination when God chose you from before he formed the world. Now I'm not here to argue limited atonement or unlimited atonement but one key thing to know here is that you CANNOT go to God unless God the Father unheardens your heart and draws you (see John 6:44 & what God says in Exodus 33:19.)

So essentially the free grace movement is false. God has to CHOOSE you for salvation. This could mean that he chose everyone who would believe or it could mean that God chooses some and throws out the rest. Either or? GOD IS A JUST GOD!

Think the other side is unfair? Technically NONE of us deserve to go to heaven so even if God only chose to save ONE person would prove his grace and mercy. But thankfully`, the saved in Heaven just cannot be counted (see Revelation 7:9). Sl it doesn't matter what happens, A LOT of people are going to be saved.

Either or, it is GOD that saves you not yourself. When we come to God it is because God already knew we were going to be saved. Period. He chose us before he formed the world. We were on his mind before he created anything. We are SPECIAL to God.

Anyway, what do you guys think of these free grace preachers? Yay or nay?

Click to expand...

They are all destined to hear..."I never knew you, depart from me ye workers of iniquity".

Neostarwcc said:

So these days YouTube and Roku ..etc. Is virtually full of these free grace pastors that say that the ONLY way to be saved is to completely accept the work that Christ did on the cross for you and trust in absolutely nothing else for your salvation including your baptism, outside works, or getting to heaven basically any other way. ALL other people are going to hell. What do you think about this?

They use Matthew 7:21-23 as "proof" of their claims. But notice what Christ says in verse 21. He says "only those that do the will of my father will enter the kingdom of heaven." We learn what the will of the Father is in John 6:37-40. In it Christ says that you have to be given to him from God the Father to be saved (see verse 37). In other words your predestination when God chose you from before he formed the world. Now I'm not here to argue limited atonement or unlimited atonement but one key thing to know here is that you CANNOT go to God unless God the Father unheardens your heart and draws you (see John 6:44 & what God says in Exodus 33:19.)

So essentially the free grace movement is false. God has to CHOOSE you for salvation. This could mean that he chose everyone who would believe or it could mean that God chooses some and throws out the rest. Either or? GOD IS A JUST GOD!

Think the other side is unfair? Technically NONE of us deserve to go to heaven so even if God only chose to save ONE person would prove his grace and mercy. But thankfully`, the saved in Heaven just cannot be counted (see Revelation 7:9). Sl it doesn't matter what happens, A LOT of people are going to be saved.

Either or, it is GOD that saves you not yourself. When we come to God it is because God already knew we were going to be saved. Period. He chose us before he formed the world. We were on his mind before he created anything. We are SPECIAL to God.

Anyway, what do you guys think of these free grace preachers? Yay or nay?

Click to expand...

The Bible is clear that the only thing a person must do to be saved is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts of the Apostles 16:30-31). Anything beyond that is going about to establish your own righteousness through the law (Romans 10:1-3).

Neostarwcc said:

So these days YouTube and Roku ..etc. Is virtually full of these free grace pastors that say that the ONLY way to be saved is to completely accept the work that Christ did on the cross for you and trust in absolutely nothing else for your salvation including your baptism, outside works, or getting to heaven basically any other way. ALL other people are going to hell. What do you think about this?

They use Matthew 7:21-23 as "proof" of their claims. But notice what Christ says in verse 21. He says "only those that do the will of my father will enter the kingdom of heaven." We learn what the will of the Father is in John 6:37-40. In it Christ says that you have to be given to him from God the Father to be saved (see verse 37). In other words your predestination when God chose you from before he formed the world. Now I'm not here to argue limited atonement or unlimited atonement but one key thing to know here is that you CANNOT go to God unless God the Father unheardens your heart and draws you (see John 6:44 & what God says in Exodus 33:19.)

So essentially the free grace movement is false. God has to CHOOSE you for salvation. This could mean that he chose everyone who would believe or it could mean that God chooses some and throws out the rest. Either or? GOD IS A JUST GOD!

Think the other side is unfair? Technically NONE of us deserve to go to heaven so even if God only chose to save ONE person would prove his grace and mercy. But thankfully`, the saved in Heaven just cannot be counted (see Revelation 7:9). Sl it doesn't matter what happens, A LOT of people are going to be saved.

Either or, it is GOD that saves you not yourself. When we come to God it is because God already knew we were going to be saved. Period. He chose us before he formed the world. We were on his mind before he created anything. We are SPECIAL to God.

Anyway, what do you guys think of these free grace preachers? Yay or nay?

Click to expand...

There are Protestant preachers that will be full-on Calvinists - to them it's all about God's choice - but they will also say that saving faith will be in what Christ did alone, rather than in baptism, outside works, etc. So the two stances you seem to be comparing here are not mutually exclusive.

Neostarwcc said:

...the ONLY way to be saved is to completely accept the work that Christ did on the cross for you and trust in absolutely nothing else for your salvation including your baptism, outside works, or getting to heaven basically any other way. ALL other people are going to hell.

What do you think about this?

Click to expand...

I think it is the truth, as the Bible presents it .. e.g. John 3:16, 18, 5:24, 14:6; Acts 4:12, Romans 2:12-16, 3:28, 4:5, 10:9-10; Ephesians 2:8-10, Titus 3:5.....

"Free Grace" preachers go astray from the truth when they go beyond the above, Biblical teaching, by saying that our justification/salvation need not ~result~ or show itself in changes to our nature and/or in fruit of any kind, ever.

They are wrong when they teach that a person can simply say or pray a few words, claim and perhaps even believe themselves to have become Christians as a result, but then continue to act with disregard to God, His holiness and righteousness like they always have (IOW, that it's just fine for such "claimants/CINO" to continue on forever in the same worldly, sinful lifestyle that they've always lived in, and consider themselves to be truly saved anyway).

This is where "Free Grace" teaching becomes "false" teaching

God's saving grace is "free" .. e.g. Romans 6:23, but there are things that always accompany* His gracious salvation of us, things that tell us whether our "claim" of becoming a Christian is true or not .. cf 2 Corinthians 13:5.


As my Calvin quote says below, "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone".

--David

Hello again @Neostarwcc, here is one last thought concerning some of what I said above.

We need to be both innocent and righteous to stand before our holy God .. but we are neither .. so Jesus is our ~only~ innocence, our ~only~ righteousness, and the ~only~ atonement and satisfaction for our sins (and for the wrath of His Father) .. cf Romans 5:8-10.

As someone once said, we are saved from God, by God, for God

--David

Neostarwcc said:

So these days YouTube and Roku ..etc. Is virtually full of these free grace pastors that say that the ONLY way to be saved is to completely accept the work that Christ did on the cross for you and trust in absolutely nothing else for your salvation including your baptism, outside works, or getting to heaven basically any other way. ALL other people are going to hell. What do you think about this?

They use Matthew 7:21-23 as "proof" of their claims. But notice what Christ says in verse 21. He says "only those that do the will of my father will enter the kingdom of heaven." We learn what the will of the Father is in John 6:37-40. In it Christ says that you have to be given to him from God the Father to be saved (see verse 37). In other words your predestination when God chose you from before he formed the world. Now I'm not here to argue limited atonement or unlimited atonement but one key thing to know here is that you CANNOT go to God unless God the Father unheardens your heart and draws you (see John 6:44 & what God says in Exodus 33:19.)

So essentially the free grace movement is false. God has to CHOOSE you for salvation. This could mean that he chose everyone who would believe or it could mean that God chooses some and throws out the rest. Either or? GOD IS A JUST GOD!

Think the other side is unfair? Technically NONE of us deserve to go to heaven so even if God only chose to save ONE person would prove his grace and mercy. But thankfully`, the saved in Heaven just cannot be counted (see Revelation 7:9). Sl it doesn't matter what happens, A LOT of people are going to be saved.

Either or, it is GOD that saves you not yourself. When we come to God it is because God already knew we were going to be saved. Period. He chose us before he formed the world. We were on his mind before he created anything. We are SPECIAL to God.

Anyway, what do you guys think of these free grace preachers? Yay or nay?

Click to expand...

I honestly don't understand your rebuttal to the "free grace preachers." From what it seems, your issue is with those that say salvation is completely through the work of Christ and not according to our works in the least. Your rebuttal to this is saying that God chooses you for salvation not according to anything you've done. You would agree obviously that God chooses one for salvation through the work of Christ, thus making it free to all who are saved.

Yet you're saying they're wrong? I'm not Calvinist, and correct me if I'm wrong - but Calvinists believe in the easiest salvation there is. So easy, in fact, that one gets regenerated (born again) prior to even placing their faith in Christ (Irresistible Grace via Unconditional Election as it were). You condemn them for having "free grace" (whatever that means), yet you (as a reformed believer) have grace that doesn't even require faith to access. However, the Bible teaches "grace through faith," (Ephesians 2:8-9). The Bible teaches that we are sealed with the Spirit AFTER we receive the word of truth (Ephesians 1:13), that, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17). We access the grace of God, which has appeared to all men (Titus 2:11) by faith (Romans 5:1-2). You condemn them for saying they're preaching a free gospel - yes, it is free - free because of what Jesus did. Yet you preach that God chooses you for salvation - also free, friend.

Grace by definition is that which is unmerited favor and providence. God, through his grace, provided for our salvation by the righteousness of Jesus; he caused his grace to come upon all men, that all have the chance to receive it and drink of the water of life. Gospel means "good news." So much is it good news that Christ likens salvation as easy as drinking water, or eating bread - it wouldn't be good news if salvation wasn't free.

Neostarwcc said:

So these days YouTube and Roku ..etc. Is virtually full of these free grace pastors that say that the ONLY way to be saved is to completely accept the work that Christ did on the cross for you and trust in absolutely nothing else for your salvation including your baptism, outside works, or getting to heaven basically any other way. ALL other people are going to hell. What do you think about this?

Click to expand...

The first thing I think is that what is said here does not conflict with predestinarian theology which you go on to say you support.

Anyway, what do you guys think of these free grace preachers? Yay or nay?

Click to expand...

I haven't encountered any of these people, so I should probably say little about this. However, it might be that their preaching mainly represents a reaction against the loosey-goosey theology that has overtaken many denominations, saying basically that God loves everyone so believe and do whatever you want.

Nicolaus Mourer said:

The Bible is clear that the only thing a person must do to be saved is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts of the Apostles 16:30-31). Anything beyond that is going about to establish your own righteousness through the law (Romans 10:1-3).

Click to expand...

Glory to God, the fruits of that belief will be manifested to all.

Neostarwcc said:

So these days YouTube and Roku ..etc. Is virtually full of these free grace pastors that say that the ONLY way to be saved is to completely accept the work that Christ did on the cross for you and trust in absolutely nothing else for your salvation including your baptism, outside works, or getting to heaven basically any other way. ALL other people are going to hell. What do you think about this?

They use Matthew 7:21-23 as "proof" of their claims. But notice what Christ says in verse 21. He says "only those that do the will of my father will enter the kingdom of heaven." We learn what the will of the Father is in John 6:37-40. In it Christ says that you have to be given to him from God the Father to be saved (see verse 37). In other words your predestination when God chose you from before he formed the world. Now I'm not here to argue limited atonement or unlimited atonement but one key thing to know here is that you CANNOT go to God unless God the Father unheardens your heart and draws you (see John 6:44 & what God says in Exodus 33:19.)

So essentially the free grace movement is false. God has to CHOOSE you for salvation. This could mean that he chose everyone who would believe or it could mean that God chooses some and throws out the rest. Either or? GOD IS A JUST GOD!

Think the other side is unfair? Technically NONE of us deserve to go to heaven so even if God only chose to save ONE person would prove his grace and mercy. But thankfully`, the saved in Heaven just cannot be counted (see Revelation 7:9). Sl it doesn't matter what happens, A LOT of people are going to be saved.

Either or, it is GOD that saves you not yourself. When we come to God it is because God already knew we were going to be saved. Period. He chose us before he formed the world. We were on his mind before he created anything. We are SPECIAL to God.

Anyway, what do you guys think of these free grace preachers? Yay or nay?

Click to expand...

No one is perfect, so anyone who condemns anyone else that Jesus or the apostles did not clearly condemn is wrong.

Did Christ or the apostles say that full understanding of free grace is necessary for salvation? I think not. John is clear: (1 Jn. 5:1) "Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God."

So then, if anyone is saying that you can't be saved unless you believe in such-and-such doctrine, don't listen to them. Or, hear them out as far as the reasoning goes to correct interpretation of scripture. They may be right about that. But if they condemn people because they don't have the right interpretation, they're wrong about that.

Like I said, no one is perfect. We try to be, but still fall far short.
TD

Neostarwcc said:

...
Anyway, what do you guys think of these free grace preachers? Yay or nay?

Click to expand...

I think the problem is that they seem to have only half of the truth. It is true that forgiveness and deliverance from judgment is free. But it is not the same as eternal life. Forgiveness gives a new start, but eternal life is for righteous. If person is not righteous, he doesn’t get eternal life. And if person is righteous, it will be seen also in his actions.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

Neostarwcc said:

in John 6:37-40. In it Christ says that you have to be given to him from God the Father to be saved (see verse 37). In other words your predestination when God chose you from before he formed the world. Now I'm not here to argue limited atonement or unlimited atonement but one key thing to know here is that you CANNOT go to God unless God the Father unheardens your heart and draws you (see John 6:44 & what God says in Exodus 33:19.)

So essentially the free grace movement is false. God has to CHOOSE you for salvation. This could mean that he chose everyone who would believe or it could mean that God chooses some and throws out the rest. Either or? GOD IS A JUST GOD!

Click to expand...

John 12:32 "I will draw ALL mankind to Me"
2 Peter 3 "God is not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance"
John 1:11 "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not"
Matthew 23 "O Jerusalem...how wanted... but you would not"
Isaiah 5:4 "What more could I have done that I have not already done"
John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD -- yes really"
1 John 2:2 "He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"
1 John 4:14 "God sent His Son to be the savior of the WORLD"

Neostarwcc said:

... So essentially the free grace movement is false. God has to CHOOSE you for salvation. ...

Click to expand...

God has chosen all in Christ Jesus, since Jesus is the elect of the Father.

Isa_42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Mat 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Thus, God has chosen to save all of humanity, in Christ.

2Co_1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Rom_3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom_8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1Co_15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Eph_1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

The question then is, how does one get into Christ Jesus? For no man(kind) before was in Him:

Rom_5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Rom_5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Rom_12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Rom_16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

1Co_1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

It is through faith:

Gal_3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Act_16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The ark of Noah is the type.

Neostarwcc said:

So these days YouTube and Roku ..etc. Is virtually full of these free grace pastors that say that the ONLY way to be saved is to completely accept the work that Christ did on the cross for you and trust in absolutely nothing else for your salvation including your baptism, outside works, or getting to heaven basically any other way. ALL other people are going to hell. What do you think about this?

They use Matthew 7:21-23 as "proof" of their claims. But notice what Christ says in verse 21. He says "only those that do the will of my father will enter the kingdom of heaven." We learn what the will of the Father is in John 6:37-40. In it Christ says that you have to be given to him from God the Father to be saved (see verse 37). In other words your predestination when God chose you from before he formed the world. Now I'm not here to argue limited atonement or unlimited atonement but one key thing to know here is that you CANNOT go to God unless God the Father unheardens your heart and draws you (see John 6:44 & what God says in Exodus 33:19.)

So essentially the free grace movement is false. God has to CHOOSE you for salvation. This could mean that he chose everyone who would believe or it could mean that God chooses some and throws out the rest. Either or? GOD IS A JUST GOD!

Think the other side is unfair? Technically NONE of us deserve to go to heaven so even if God only chose to save ONE person would prove his grace and mercy. But thankfully`, the saved in Heaven just cannot be counted (see Revelation 7:9). Sl it doesn't matter what happens, A LOT of people are going to be saved.

Either or, it is GOD that saves you not yourself. When we come to God it is because God already knew we were going to be saved. Period. He chose us before he formed the world. We were on his mind before he created anything. We are SPECIAL to God.

Anyway, what do you guys think of these free grace preachers? Yay or nay?

Click to expand...

I agree with the apostle Paul who said, "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." Rom 4:4,5

I agree with Jesus who said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

But I disagree with the puppet theology of Calvinism.

Neostarwcc said:

So these days YouTube and Roku ..etc. Is virtually full of these free grace pastors that say that the ONLY way to be saved is to completely accept the work that Christ did on the cross for you and trust in absolutely nothing else for your salvation including your baptism, outside works, or getting to heaven basically any other way. ALL other people are going to hell. What do you think about this?

They use Matthew 7:21-23 as "proof" of their claims. But notice what Christ says in verse 21. He says "only those that do the will of my father will enter the kingdom of heaven." We learn what the will of the Father is in John 6:37-40. In it Christ says that you have to be given to him from God the Father to be saved (see verse 37). In other words your predestination when God chose you from before he formed the world. Now I'm not here to argue limited atonement or unlimited atonement but one key thing to know here is that you CANNOT go to God unless God the Father unheardens your heart and draws you (see John 6:44 & what God says in Exodus 33:19.)

So essentially the free grace movement is false. God has to CHOOSE you for salvation. This could mean that he chose everyone who would believe or it could mean that God chooses some and throws out the rest. Either or? GOD IS A JUST GOD!

Think the other side is unfair? Technically NONE of us deserve to go to heaven so even if God only chose to save ONE person would prove his grace and mercy. But thankfully`, the saved in Heaven just cannot be counted (see Revelation 7:9). Sl it doesn't matter what happens, A LOT of people are going to be saved.

Either or, it is GOD that saves you not yourself. When we come to God it is because God already knew we were going to be saved. Period. He chose us before he formed the world. We were on his mind before he created anything. We are SPECIAL to God.

Anyway, what do you guys think of these free grace preachers? Yay or nay?

Click to expand...

In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His Law. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In John 1:16-17, it says grace upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. In 2 Peter 3:17-18, grow in grace is contrasted with being taken away by the error of Lawless men. In Jude 1:4, the ungodly pervert God's grace into a license for immorality. Strong's defines grace as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His Law (Psalms 40:8). So grace is the power of God to overcome Lawlessness in our lives and it is by grace that God teaches us to obey His Law.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is essentially what God's Law was given to instruct us how to do. Furthermore, verse 14 says that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all Lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we accept the work of Christ on the cross, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's Law (Acts 21:20) and will not return to the Lawlessness that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from.

In Matthew 23:23, Christ said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Law, so obedience to it is what trusting in Christ looks like. God is trustworthy, so His Law therefore is also trustworthy, and a law that isn't trustworthy can't come from a God who is trustworthy. Our salvation is from sin and sin is defined as disobedience to God's Law (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's Law through faith is what being saved from living in disobedience to God's Law looks like.

Nicolaus Mourer said:

The Bible is clear that the only thing a person must do to be saved is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts of the Apostles 16:30-31). Anything beyond that is going about to establish your own righteousness through the law (Romans 10:1-3).

Click to expand...

Do you think that there a difference in behavior between someone who believes in Christ and someone who does not? Or do you think that any difference would be going beyond believing in Jesus?

Soyeong said:

Do you think that there a difference in behavior between someone who believes in Christ and someone who does not? Or do you think that any difference would be going beyond believing in Jesus?

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What do you mean by behavior?

Nicolaus Mourer said:

What do you mean by behavior?

Click to expand...

The sort of actions that someone generally takes.

Soyeong said:

The sort of actions that someone generally takes.

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Their ought to be a difference. An individual who is saved has their understanding enlightened to the gospel, knowing who Christ is and what he did. Paul exhorts Christians that, because our faith is in him, we ought to walk not as other gentiles walk in vanity of mind, but to put on our new man and walked renewed (Ephesians 4).

However, I don't believe it is a hard and fast rule that every born-again believer will walk in the new man, that is, in the Spirit. Why? Because even though we get saved and receive our new nature through the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, we still retain the old nature of our flesh, which Paul explains wars against the Spirit so that we could not do the things that we would (Galatians 5:17-22). After all, King Solomon observed that "there is not a just man (a righteous man) upon the earth that doeth good, and sinneth not," (Ecclesiastes 7:20).

Will a born-again believer's actions always be different? Not necessarily. Should they be? Absolutely. And it is part of our duty to exhort other Christians to that zeal.