hostility for Trump

A_Thinker

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As my profile says, I live in Australia & not a US citizen, so I get rather mystified by the personal vitriol that is expressed towards President Trump. Of course it happens here too but basically we are just too busy playing cricket & football to get too worked up about our pollies.

The first US president I became aware of as a young teenager was Kennedy ... and yes I remember where I was when he was shot. So over the years I have taken a distant interest in US politics, becoming more aware of things in recent years through forums such as this. Unless I am beginning to 'disremember' there is not a time I can recall when there was such personal animus for a president.

I suppose everyone is aware of Trump's character flaws but I am surprised how often he is abused on a personal level by those Christians who dislike him ... which actually sounds like hate to me. In Australia there is a tendency to avoid attacks on a politician's character though there have been notable exceptions (eg Barnaby Joyce).

It seems those who engage in attacking Trump's character, rather than just objectively criticizing his policies, do so on the basis that it is "the truth". I'm not actually asking whether it is "the truth" that Trump is all the bad things people say, but whether as Christians we ought to adopt a different approach.
I think that it has to do with his blatant flouting of our electoral process. That's why Nixon faced impeachment, as well, so it's not just particular to Trump.

Many don't see Trump's win ... as a legitimate one ... and we fear that our system continues to be vulnerable to repeated instances of such manipulation as brought him to power.
 
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A_Thinker

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I think some take the position that Trump is bad for the nation therefore he can be removed by fair means or foul. I understand politicians taking that view, but not Christians.
Trump has VIOLATED our electoral process ... and threatens to do so again. Such must be countered for the sake of the nation ...
 
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A_Thinker

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You really can't see that you are casting yourself in the role of "mind reader" which means you are placing a derogatory interpretation on the words because of your personal dislike of the man. Have you even considered a different explanation?
What is a better explanation ... for the man who constantly claims to be "the Greatest" ?

Don't you steer clear of such individuals in real life ?

As an example of Trump's contempt for the nation ... during his campaign, he discussed America's recognition of his fellow Republican politician (and war hero and veteran) John McCain. John McCain spent 5 and half years as a American POW in Vietnam ... and Trump's comment was ...

"He's a war hero because he was captured," "I like people that weren't captured."

Nuff said ...
 
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Tom 1

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Your attitude is what my OP was addressing - because you think something is true because of the sources you have used, you then think you have the right to accuse a person of corrupt behaviour. It's really no difference to calling people names and I am suggesting Christians can do better than that.

Well, the source being Trump I don't have an issue with pointing out that Trump said or did this or that.
 
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setst777

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I study semantics, propaganda, sophistry, and psychological manipulation. I've done so most all of my life. It's the sentiments being expressed behind the words that matter to me.

Hence I can tell you that what comes out of one's mouth reveals what's in the heart and mind. In this sense I indeed can see that I am reading someone's mind when I examine their words seeking to understand their meaning. And I am keenly aware of conjecture based on false premises.

For example, when you say definitively, "Which means" I am placing a derogatory interpretation on the words because of my personal dislike for the man, your reasoning is based on the premise that I can't see that I am casting myself as a mind reader. Since I have already admitted that I am reading someone's thoughts according to the sentiments they express in their words, then such a conclusion is invalid.

Moreover you state as definitive another unproven premise based on the invalid conclusion, which is that I place a derogatory interpretation on his words because I dislike the man, as if somehow I have a dislike of the man's words before he even said anything. That makes your sentiment an insinuation which isn't reasonable to be presented as definitive.

Finally, you ask if I have even considered a different explanation. Why should I not take him at his word when he says I will get Mexico to pay for the wall? It's not my interpretation that makes it derogatory to Trump, it's my belief that it's wrong to find a way to get someone else to pay for my stuff.

President Trump speaks what is on his mind; that is his character, and I find it refreshing.

Most times, I see that Trump speaks rightly against those who oppose our nation's security, safety, military strength, economy, trade, and jobs.

President Trump is definitely remaining true to his promises to the people that voted for him; however, the democrats are trying to block him in every way possible.

The personal attacks against President Trump are very surprising, and shows me how liberal and anti-American the left has become, which is clearly demonstrated within the democratic party in particular. And the democratic party is definitely in alliance with Islam.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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As my profile says, I live in Australia & not a US citizen, so I get rather mystified by the personal vitriol that is expressed towards President Trump. Of course it happens here too but basically we are just too busy playing cricket & football to get too worked up about our pollies.

The first US president I became aware of as a young teenager was Kennedy ... and yes I remember where I was when he was shot. So over the years I have taken a distant interest in US politics, becoming more aware of things in recent years through forums such as this. Unless I am beginning to 'disremember' there is not a time I can recall when there was such personal animus for a president.

I suppose everyone is aware of Trump's character flaws but I am surprised how often he is abused on a personal level by those Christians who dislike him ... which actually sounds like hate to me. In Australia there is a tendency to avoid attacks on a politician's character though there have been notable exceptions (eg Barnaby Joyce).

It seems those who engage in attacking Trump's character, rather than just objectively criticizing his policies, do so on the basis that it is "the truth". I'm not actually asking whether it is "the truth" that Trump is all the bad things people say, but whether as Christians we ought to adopt a different approach.

What a lot of Christians tend to forget is Paul and Peter both wrote to honor and obey those in authority, up to and including a national leader, in their case the emperor which translates in our case to the President/Prime Minister/etc.

Paul was murdered by having his head removed by the very Emperor he told people to honor and obey.

Peter was murdered by being crucified upside down by the very Emperor he wrote to honor and obey.

So it isn't just a matter of respecting the person in office, it's wholly a matter of if you aren't, you are actually sinning. Remember, God has appointed every. single. one. of these individuals to rule at exactly the moment in history they do so. So you aren't just opposing Trump, you are opposing God.

And don't get me wrong, it isn't just about Trump, Republicans in America did the exact same thing when Obama was in office. The ironic thing about it all is, Christians want to cry about having more godly leaders while how many of us live godly lives ourselves?

If we want change, stop looking to government officials and just effect the people around you. Can you imagine what the world would look like if the 2/3 billion people that say they are Christian would actually stop whining and bickering about government this and government that and just live in a Christlike manner. We don't even need to agree on what sanctification means, or how many prayers need said or how to say them. Just live a Christlike life!

1 John 4:16, "God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them."

1 John 3:17-18, "If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth."
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Of all the politicians running in 2020 Trump represents Christian values more than any of the others.

Yet, some don't support him.
The times we live in.
They are too blind to see.
Maybe these are the end times?
M-Bob
 
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A_Thinker

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What a lot of Christians tend to forget is Paul and Peter both wrote to honor and obey those in authority, up to and including a national leader, in their case the emperor which translates in our case to the President/Prime Minister/etc.

Paul was murdered by having his head removed by the very Emperor he told people to honor and obey.

Peter was murdered by being crucified upside down by the very Emperor he wrote to honor and obey.

So it isn't just a matter of respecting the person in office, it's wholly a matter of if you aren't, you are actually sinning. Remember, God has appointed every. single. one. of these individuals to rule at exactly the moment in history they do so. So you aren't just opposing Trump, you are opposing God.

And don't get me wrong, it isn't just about Trump, Republicans in America did the exact same thing when Obama was in office. The ironic thing about it all is, Christians want to cry about having more godly leaders while how many of us live godly lives ourselves?

If we want change, stop looking to government officials and just effect the people around you. Can you imagine what the world would look like if the 2/3 billion people that say they are Christian would actually stop whining and bickering about government this and government that and just live in a Christlike manner. We don't even need to agree on what sanctification means, or how many prayers need said or how to say them. Just live a Christlike life!

1 John 4:16, "God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them."

1 John 3:17-18, "If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth."
So ... we should just ignore all of the current government parallels with the German government in the 1930's ???
 
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public hermit

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People of good conscience can disagree over matters of importance. Such disagreements require a certain amount of mutual forbearance.

What is concerning to me is if these political divisions find a home within the body of Christ. Should not our faith, hope, and love given to us in Jesus Christ transcend the divisions bred in the world? Is everything, including our precious faith, becoming politicised? And if it is, who is supposed to stop it if not us?
 
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A_Thinker

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Of all the politicians running in 2020 Trump represents Christian values more than any of the others.

M-Bob
Hardly .. he's a cheat, a liar, and a serial adulterer. First wife Ivana, second wife Marla Maples, and Melania give testiment to this. Anyone who thinks he's going to do right by them ... is just drinking the koolaid ...
 
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GingerBeer

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Unless I am beginning to 'disremember' there is not a time I can recall when there was such personal animus for a president.
J F K was hated by some people because he was a Catholic. Some people even celebrated his assassination, albeit fairly quietly. That is rather more hostility than Donald Trump is receiving.
 
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Zanting

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The hostility is real and unwarranted...and everywhere...including among Christians...and it`s very sad and certainly not what our Father in heaven wants to see...man has no control over anything (in my Christian perspective) because I believe God is in control of everything. WIth such a belief...the POTUS is exactly who he is supposed to be to serve our Fathers purpose.

I experienced Trump hate first hand...before he was even elected (and why I became one of the silent majority for so long) and when I brought that experience up on CF...I was more or less called a liar with comments such as...hate is too strong a word...or democrats don`t really hate Trump...etc...which sadly was an attempt to minimize my experience just because some don`t want to address the actual violence that Trump hate has generated...instead, of course, it`s Trump`s fault for becoming the POTUS...he was never supposed to be elected.

I have faith that our Father in heaven will out the truth in His time for there is only one truth and as the scripture points out many times...for those with eyes to see and ears to hear...and not versions of it that cause division, and anger and hatred to brew...that`s Satan`s work and is not of God. God`s word tells us this many times and in many ways.

Luke 8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
 
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mothcorrupteth

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The people who dislike him do so for the same reason that the people who like him do so--because he dares show us the man behind the curtain. In terms of policy Trump is not substantially different from a 90's New York Democrat. But he says what everyone is thinking but is too fake and hypocritical to say themselves. It all reminds me of the Kubrick hidden gem Barry Lyndon; the elites are all just as corrupt as the Irish rogue who seeks to become one of them, but they nevertheless consider themselves to be his "betters" because they put on bowties and talk pretty and emptily.
 
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Rubiks

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President Trump speaks what is on his mind; that is his character, and I find it refreshing.

Most times, I see that Trump speaks rightly against those who oppose our nation's security, safety, military strength, economy, trade, and jobs.

President Trump is definitely remaining true to his promises to the people that voted for him; however, the democrats are trying to block him in every way possible.

The personal attacks against President Trump are very surprising, and shows me how liberal and anti-American the left has become, which is clearly demonstrated within the democratic party in particular. And the democratic party is definitely in alliance with Islam.

The criticisms against his character are relevant. We don't want a president who is incompetent and who is a borderline white nationalist.
 
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Mountainmanbob

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So ... we should just ignore all of the current government parallels with the German government in the 1930's ???

There are none.
We here in the US have nothing in common with what went on in Germany.
Stop scaring the little children.
Note -- no one truly believes that statement.
Hopefully -- not even you??
MB
 
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mothcorrupteth

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There are none.
We here in the US have nothing in common with what went on in Germany.
Stop scaring the little children.
Note -- no one truly believes that statement.
Hopefully -- not even you??
MB
Agreed. Where is the stalemate war we lost, hm? Where is the runaway inflation and subsequent Great Depression? (We are told that Obama made the economy better; is this not true?) The communist revolution that had to be put down through an alliance of conservative aristocracy and military veterans? The loss of territories historically considered part of the Empire? The landlocked economy that was starved by illegal naval blockade? The 70-year history of liberal nationalism that popularized anti-Semitism and made so-called "right-wing" (re: liberals who felt they could compromise with the aristocracy and its militarism) ethno-nationalism possible? Where is the Dolchstoßlegende claiming that we lost all this because of an ethnic minority's treachery? The preceding unification of our country under the banner of the only militaristic kingdom powerful enough to defend said unification from foreign incursion? The insecure monarch who claims our country hasn't been and still isn't receiving its due respect?

Liberals treat Nazi Germany as if it was a right-wing phenomenon that unfolded in two decades. They see high-profile ethno-nationalists and a populist leader who talks a big game, and that's all the puzzle pieces they think they need to build a coherent picture of rampant totalitarian sentiment. Our Ken Burns education in history conceals from us that Nazism was a left-wing phenomenon close to 100 years in the making with a number of puzzle pieces that all had to fall in precise places to produce the results they did. Hitler was not a "great man" who imposed his ideology on the world scene. He was simply an atom at the crest of a wave that was far more complicated and nuanced and stemmed from long-last distaste over the 17th-century European wars of religion. America has exactly two puzzle pieces that only look vaguely like völkisch thought and a failed Austrian painter.
 
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