Justified by Works? What Works?

newton3005

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The Book of James describes two types of works. There are the works that involve helping the poor, and there are works which demonstrate your belief in God. Of the former, James 2:15-17 says “If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace, be warmed and filled,’ without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also FAITH BY ITSELF, IF IT DOES NOT HAVE WORKS, is dead.” Of the latter, James 2:21 says “Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?” Regarding James 2:21, Abraham isn’t helping anyone, but his demonstration of his belief in God when he was willing to sacrifice his son is counted as works.

Jesus in the Parable of The Pharisee and the Tax Collector in Luke 18:10-14 tell of these two who go into the temple to pray. The Pharisee says to God that he gives tithes of what he gets. The tax collector just asks God to be merciful to him since he’s a sinner. The works of the Pharisee, therefore, involves helping to promote the faith in God, and the works of the tax collector involve showing his belief in God as Abraham showed his belief.

Jesus in the Parable implies that God will give deference to the tax collector. Does that further imply that if God had space in Heaven left for only one person, He would choose the tax collector? If so, then what is the value toward Heaven in the other things Jesus tells us to do, such as giving everything you have to the poor as he told a rich young man?

But let’s try and put this in perspective. In Jesus’ Beatitudes in Matthew 5:3-8 and Verse 10 he blesses the unfortunate. In Matthew 25:45-46 Jesus says that those who do nothing for the least of God’s people will go to hell. Also, in Matthew 25:31-40 he says that those who help the least of God’s people will go to Heaven. It seems from these verses in Matthew, both the unfortunate and those who help the unfortunate will go to Heaven. But in the Parable described above, greater justification is given to the tax collector who gives nothing except his faith in God, over the Pharisee who gives tithes to the temple. Could it be that giving justification, and rendering judgement, are two different things having nothing to do with eachother?

Or perhaps another way of looking at this is people like the Pharisee and the rich young man, who have been fruitful in their lives, will not be worthy of Heaven unless they give away EVERYTHING they have so they would be like those who have nothing and who will be allowed into Heaven. If so, then, what of God’s commandment in Genesis 1:28 for us to “be fruitful”? Perhaps the order of things is this: Be fruitful, then give away everything you have to the poor, and it will go a long way to assuring your place in Heaven. And as far as the unfortunate in Jesus’ Beatitudes goes, they have already been assured a place in Heaven without any works, except the works of showing their belief in God.
 
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SkyWriting

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The Book of James describes two types of works. There are the works that involve helping the poor, and there are works which demonstrate your belief in God. Of the former, James 2:15-17 says “If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace, be warmed and filled,’ without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also FAITH BY ITSELF, IF IT DOES NOT HAVE WORKS, is dead.” Of the latter, James 2:21 says “Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?” Regarding James 2:21, Abraham isn’t helping anyone, but his demonstration of his belief in God when he was willing to sacrifice his son is counted as works.

Jesus in the Parable of The Pharisee and the Tax Collector in Luke 18:10-14 tell of these two who go into the temple to pray. The Pharisee says to God that he gives tithes of what he gets. The tax collector just asks God to be merciful to him since he’s a sinner. The works of the Pharisee, therefore, involves helping to promote the faith in God, and the works of the tax collector involve showing his belief in God as Abraham showed his belief.

Jesus in the Parable implies that God will give deference to the tax collector. Does that further imply that if God had space in Heaven left for only one person, He would choose the tax collector? If so, then what is the value toward Heaven in the other things Jesus tells us to do, such as giving everything you have to the poor as he told a rich young man?

But let’s try and put this in perspective. In Jesus’ Beatitudes in Matthew 5:3-8 and Verse 10 he blesses the unfortunate. In Matthew 25:45-46 Jesus says that those who do nothing for the least of God’s people will go to hell. Also, in Matthew 25:31-40 he says that those who help the least of God’s people will go to Heaven. It seems from these verses in Matthew, both the unfortunate and those who help the unfortunate will go to Heaven. But in the Parable described above, greater justification is given to the tax collector who gives nothing except his faith in God, over the Pharisee who gives tithes to the temple. Could it be that giving justification, and rendering judgement, are two different things having nothing to do with eachother?

Or perhaps another way of looking at this is people like the Pharisee and the rich young man, who have been fruitful in their lives, will not be worthy of Heaven unless they give away EVERYTHING they have so they would be like those who have nothing and who will be allowed into Heaven. If so, then, what of God’s commandment in Genesis 1:28 for us to “be fruitful”? Perhaps the order of things is this: Be fruitful, then give away everything you have to the poor, and it will go long to assuring your place in Heaven. And as far as the unfortunate in Jesus’ Beatitudes goes, they have already been assured a place in Heaven without any works, except the works of showing their belief in God.


Let's stick to reality.
The only "work" required is giving up to God your sins.

theif-on-the-cross-930x523.jpg
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Let's stick to reality.
The only "work" required is giving up to God your sins.

theif-on-the-cross-930x523.jpg

I like it; the actual placement of the nails that is (palm bleeding stigmata notwithstanding).
 
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newton3005

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Let's stick to reality.
The only "work" required is giving up to God your sins.

Sin is anything that goes against what God wants. In that sense, any righteous works is "giving up your sins," from Abraham willing to sacrifice his son, to giving to the poor.
 
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eleos1954

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Let's stick to reality.
The only "work" required is giving up to God your sins.

theif-on-the-cross-930x523.jpg

and even then, it is the drawing power (work of the Lord) drawing power of God .... everyone is invited (drawn) .... but not all respond to (or ignore) the invitation.

Responding to the (an) invitation is not a work.
 
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SkyWriting

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The whole Bible can be summed up in the statement that anything that goes against what God wants is a sin, so start reading.
Try a third time...using scripture this time.
You'll be amazed at what it really says rather
than what people think it says.
 
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SkyWriting

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and even then, it is the drawing power (work of the Lord) drawing power of God .... everyone is invited (drawn) .... but not all respond to (or ignore) the invitation.

Responding to the (an) invitation is not a work.

The thief on the cross is not an example of any invitation.
not of repentance,
not of baptism.

Responding is the only "work" required.
 
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Mr.Beautiful

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The Book of James describes two types of works. There are the works that involve helping the poor, and there are works which demonstrate your belief in God. Of the former, James 2:15-17 says “If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace, be warmed and filled,’ without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also FAITH BY ITSELF, IF IT DOES NOT HAVE WORKS, is dead.” Of the latter, James 2:21 says “Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?” Regarding James 2:21, Abraham isn’t helping anyone, but his demonstration of his belief in God when he was willing to sacrifice his son is counted as works.

The Book of James is written to Jewish Christians as stated in James 1:1 which means contextually we would have to step into their mindset of things...

With James 2, it opens with how people would come into their synagogue (James 2:2-3) and there would be preferential treatment towards certain people because of how they look. So James 2 is speaking on relationship from people to people. This is why he says if a brother or sister is poorly clothed, and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them "Go in peace..." (James 2:15)

With God, one only needs faith to please Him (Romans 4:2-5 and Hebrews 11:6), however, with people, its a different situation because people don't use faith with each other rather their natural senses.

If someone needs something and you say you believe God, but don't demonstrate anything physical, then in their eyes, you aren't justified. You're just all talk and no walk.

"Was not Abraham our father justfied by works?" No Abraham was not justified by works because back in Genesis 15, God showed him the stars (The Gospel story in the sky) and he believed what God showed and told him. Same with Rahab, she told the 2 spies (Joshua 2) that she believed in their God because the Children of Israel crossed the Red Sea.

Now you're question is if Abraham was helping anyone. Yes he was. He was helping Issac. We know that Abraham was the person that God cut the covenant with back in Genesis. Abraham was willing to demonstrate physically to Issac that he does believe God by sacrificing him because when Issac was growing up, any father would tell their faith to their children. This story is based on how God the Father demonstrated His love for us to Jesus. He sent Him to die for us as proof to His Son that we are worth it. (John 3:16)

The second example was Rehab, she hid the 2 spies and when people came looking for them, she basically lied to them. Then when they left, she essentially told the spies she believed in their God (Joshua 2:8-11)

Both demonstrated physically what they believed to a physical people by demonstrating it.

But there is a really big caveat to all this. James contrasts both the Law (10 commandments) with the Perfect Law of Liberty (Grace) (James 2:8-13).

James audience were Jewish Christians, and many were struggling with "following Jesus" (Grace) and "following Moses" (Law).

People have always wondered why did James put both Abraham and Rehab as the examples for "Faith without works is dead?"

The reason? Both were not under the Law. Abraham lived 400 some odd years before the Law on Sinai was given, and Rehab was a Gentile that knew nothing of it. The only people under Law at the time were the Children of Israel. When time came to act, they were only cognizant of acting out their faith without fear of reproach.

Funny thing is in the same chapter of James 2, we see in in verse 11. "Do not commit adultery" and "Do not commit murder"

YET

A few verses down, Rehab was committing perpetual adultery because she was a harlot and Abraham was about to murder his child; however these were the people that were able to demonstrate their faith because of the perfect Law of Liberty is above the Royal Law.







 
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Soyeong

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The Book of James describes two types of works. There are the works that involve helping the poor, and there are works which demonstrate your belief in God. Of the former, James 2:15-17 says “If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace, be warmed and filled,’ without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also FAITH BY ITSELF, IF IT DOES NOT HAVE WORKS, is dead.” Of the latter, James 2:21 says “Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?” Regarding James 2:21, Abraham isn’t helping anyone, but his demonstration of his belief in God when he was willing to sacrifice his son is counted as works.

Jesus in the Parable of The Pharisee and the Tax Collector in Luke 18:10-14 tell of these two who go into the temple to pray. The Pharisee says to God that he gives tithes of what he gets. The tax collector just asks God to be merciful to him since he’s a sinner. The works of the Pharisee, therefore, involves helping to promote the faith in God, and the works of the tax collector involve showing his belief in God as Abraham showed his belief.

Jesus in the Parable implies that God will give deference to the tax collector. Does that further imply that if God had space in Heaven left for only one person, He would choose the tax collector? If so, then what is the value toward Heaven in the other things Jesus tells us to do, such as giving everything you have to the poor as he told a rich young man?

But let’s try and put this in perspective. In Jesus’ Beatitudes in Matthew 5:3-8 and Verse 10 he blesses the unfortunate. In Matthew 25:45-46 Jesus says that those who do nothing for the least of God’s people will go to hell. Also, in Matthew 25:31-40 he says that those who help the least of God’s people will go to Heaven. It seems from these verses in Matthew, both the unfortunate and those who help the unfortunate will go to Heaven. But in the Parable described above, greater justification is given to the tax collector who gives nothing except his faith in God, over the Pharisee who gives tithes to the temple. Could it be that giving justification, and rendering judgement, are two different things having nothing to do with eachother?

Or perhaps another way of looking at this is people like the Pharisee and the rich young man, who have been fruitful in their lives, will not be worthy of Heaven unless they give away EVERYTHING they have so they would be like those who have nothing and who will be allowed into Heaven. If so, then, what of God’s commandment in Genesis 1:28 for us to “be fruitful”? Perhaps the order of things is this: Be fruitful, then give away everything you have to the poor, and it will go a long way to assuring your place in Heaven. And as far as the unfortunate in Jesus’ Beatitudes goes, they have already been assured a place in Heaven without any works, except the works of showing their belief in God.

While it is true the Abraham believed God, so it was justified, it is also true that he believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac, so Abraham was not justified by his works as through it were something that he had earned, but rather the same faith by which he was justified was also expressed as obedience to God. So it is not about a different type of faith or works.

Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

The difference in Luke was not about doing different types of works, but about their attitude of showing humility before God. The Pharisee was taking pride in his works rather than depending upon God, he received his reward in this life, whereas the tax collector was depending on the mercy of God, and it was that faith in God by which he was justified.
 
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Chris35

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The Book of James describes two types of works. There are the works that involve helping the poor, and there are works which demonstrate your belief in God. Of the former, James 2:15-17 says “If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace, be warmed and filled,’ without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also FAITH BY ITSELF, IF IT DOES NOT HAVE WORKS, is dead.”


“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.


Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.


For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.


That is the work James and Paul is referring to. Love does not hold back in giving to those in need.
 
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klutedavid

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The whole Bible can be summed up in the statement that anything that goes against what God wants is a sin, so start reading.
Excuse me.

You can stop stealing but that has nothing to do with loving others as Christ has loved you.

One is resisting sin and the other is bearing the fruit of kindness, gentleness, patience, e.t.c.
 
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klutedavid

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The Book of James is written to Jewish Christians as stated in James 1:1 which means contextually we would have to step into their mindset of things...

With James 2, it opens with how people would come into their synagogue (James 2:2-3) and there would be preferential treatment towards certain people because of how they look. So James 2 is speaking on relationship from people to people. This is why he says if a brother or sister is poorly clothed, and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them "Go in peace..." (James 2:15)

With God, one only needs faith to please Him (Romans 4:2-5 and Hebrews 11:6), however, with people, its a different situation because people don't use faith with each other rather their natural senses.

If someone needs something and you say you believe God, but don't demonstrate anything physical, then in their eyes, you aren't justified. You're just all talk and no walk.

"Was not Abraham our father justfied by works?" No Abraham was not justified by works because back in Genesis 15, God showed him the stars (The Gospel story in the sky) and he believed what God showed and told him. Same with Rahab, she told the 2 spies (Joshua 2) that she believed in their God because the Children of Israel crossed the Red Sea.

Now you're question is if Abraham was helping anyone. Yes he was. He was helping Issac. We know that Abraham was the person that God cut the covenant with back in Genesis. Abraham was willing to demonstrate physically to Issac that he does believe God by sacrificing him because when Issac was growing up, any father would tell their faith to their children. This story is based on how God the Father demonstrated His love for us to Jesus. He sent Him to die for us as proof to His Son that we are worth it. (John 3:16)

The second example was Rehab, she hid the 2 spies and when people came looking for them, she basically lied to them. Then when they left, she essentially told the spies she believed in their God (Joshua 2:8-11)

Both demonstrated physically what they believed to a physical people by demonstrating it.

But there is a really big caveat to all this. James contrasts both the Law (10 commandments) with the Perfect Law of Liberty (Grace) (James 2:8-13).

James audience were Jewish Christians, and many were struggling with "following Jesus" (Grace) and "following Moses" (Law).

People have always wondered why did James put both Abraham and Rehab as the examples for "Faith without works is dead?"

The reason? Both were not under the Law. Abraham lived 400 some odd years before the Law on Sinai was given, and Rehab was a Gentile that knew nothing of it. The only people under Law at the time were the Children of Israel. When time came to act, they were only cognizant of acting out their faith without fear of reproach.

Funny thing is in the same chapter of James 2, we see in in verse 11. "Do not commit adultery" and "Do not commit murder"

YET

A few verses down, Rehab was committing perpetual adultery because she was a harlot and Abraham was about to murder his child; however these were the people that were able to demonstrate their faith because of the perfect Law of Liberty is above the Royal Law.
A very solid and well written post by you.

I like to see these types of posts!
 
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Chris35

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You can stop stealing but that has nothing to do with loving others as Christ has loved you.

Sure it does.
For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [a]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
 
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Chris35

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Sin is anything that goes against what God wants.

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love

If God is love, then anything that goes against love is a sin.


If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.


Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment;
 
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Chris35

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the other is bearing the fruit of kindness, gentleness, patience, e.t.c.

5“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.


9“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.


A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
 
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newton3005

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The Book of James is written to Jewish Christians as stated in James 1:1 which means contextually we would have to step into their mindset of things...

The Bible speaks to everyone.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 says, “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” Psalms 19:1 says “The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.” Galatians 3:28 says “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Do we ignore passages in the New Testament because of whom those passages were originally addressed to? Do we ignore, say, the Book of Romans because after all, it was addressed to Romans, or the Book of Galatians, or of Hebrews, etc., because those Books were addressed to those people, when we have 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Psalms 19:1 and Galatians 3:28 to contend with? Oh, wait, Galatians 3:28 was addressed to Galatians, wasn’t it, so does that mean we can, say, discriminate against everyone else?
 
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newton3005

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Excuse me.

You can stop stealing but that has nothing to do with loving others as Christ has loved you.

One is resisting sin and the other is bearing the fruit of kindness, gentleness, patience, e.t.c.

Can you read Matthew 25:41-46 and say the people Jesus refers to here did not sin? If so, what other reason would there be for someone to be denied entry to heaven if they didn't sin?
 
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