What are these verses saying?

MrMoe · Oct 5, 2019

Ecclesiastes 7:16 Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself? 17 Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time? 18 It is good that thou shouldest take hold of this; yea, also from this withdraw not thine hand: for he that feareth God shall come forth of them all. (KJV)

16 Do not be overrighteous,
neither be overwise—
why destroy yourself?
17 Do not be overwicked,
and do not be a fool—
why die before your time?
18 It is good to grasp the one
and not let go of the other.
Whoever fears God will avoid all extremes. (NIV)

16 Be not overly righteous, and do not make yourself too wise. Why should you destroy yourself? 17 Be not overly wicked, neither be a fool. Why should you die before your time? 18 It is good that you should take hold of this, and from that withhold not your hand, for the one who fears God shall come out from both of them. (ESV)

On face value it seems like they are basically saying don't be too good, which seems to go against what Jesus said in Matthew 5:48. So what are we to make of these verses?

spiritualchristian7 · Oct 5, 2019

I'm also waiting for answers...

icxn · Oct 5, 2019

There was another thread about this 'not long' ago.

Mark51 · Oct 5, 2019

Seeking and gaining knowledge and wisdom are good, but balance is necessary so that we do not become proud or conceited and bring harm to ourselves and become wicked.

For example, we may point out the errors of other people and become hypercritical. Ask yourself: Are you the type of person who feels self-righteous and argues and makes known their opinions to everyone, and quickly condemning anyone who does not live up to their personal standards? Are you the type of person who simply embarrasses others by being loud and boisterous? This can lead to anyone’s downfall, because such ones will begin to lose respect for those around them; and, may forget the weaknesses-which may be different from those of the people we criticizes-and the imperfection that we all inherited.-Matthew 7:1-5.

Compare: Matthew 6:1; 21:31; 23:12; Luke 18:9-14; James 4:6; 1 Peter 5:5.

roman2819 · Oct 5, 2019

I believe it might be referring to righteous ones who tried to fight injustice and corruption, and in doing so, angered the rich or powerful people, who in turn resorted to violence to silence them.

Jonaitis · Oct 5, 2019

MrMoe said:
Ecclesiastes 7:16 Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself? 17 Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time? 18 It is good that thou shouldest take hold of this; yea, also from this withdraw not thine hand: for he that feareth God shall come forth of them all. (KJV)

16 Do not be overrighteous,
neither be overwise—
why destroy yourself?
17 Do not be overwicked,
and do not be a fool—
why die before your time?
18 It is good to grasp the one
and not let go of the other.
Whoever fears God will avoid all extremes. (NIV)

16 Be not overly righteous, and do not make yourself too wise. Why should you destroy yourself? 17 Be not overly wicked, neither be a fool. Why should you die before your time? 18 It is good that you should take hold of this, and from that withhold not your hand, for the one who fears God shall come out from both of them. (ESV)

On face value it seems like they are basically saying don't be too good, which seems to go against what Jesus said in Matthew 5:48. So what are we to make of these verses?

This is one of the funniest passages in the Scriptures - especially verse 17. If you read it as sarcastic, it is funny.

Regardless, this passage is referring to the fleeting life of a man (who is lost), that as his days are he should enjoy them, and when they pass away they will never again enjoy anything under the sun. It is a way of saying that your life is so "vain" that you may as well take every advantage to make it enjoyable. If you live overly righteous, you will live a unpleasant life for nothing. If you are overly wicked, your life will be cut short and you won't enjoy it.

This is NOT Solomon saying that this life is truly vain and that we can do whatever we want, it is him preaching to the choir who will never come to Christ and will still remain unrepentant. "Might as well live your profitless life in pleasure, because this will be your only heaven and after this is your eternal home in darkness and silence."

So it is throwing the atheist worldview in their own face, sarcastically and rhetorically "encouraging" them in order to convict them and make them look for more than here and now. He even says this toward the end of the book:

"Rejoice, O young man, in your youth, and let your heart cheer you in the days of your youth. Walk in the ways of your heart and the sight of your eyes. But know that for all these things God will bring you into judgment." - Ecclesiastes 11:9

This book is evangelistic, if you think about it, to those who are so caught up in this life. This is one good book to preach from to win souls who are carried away by the cares of this life.

MrMoe · Oct 6, 2019

icxn said:
There was another thread about this 'not long' ago.

Thanks.

I have problems with those answers. They don't fully address everything that is said in those verses.

MrMoe · Oct 6, 2019

Mark51 said:
Seeking and gaining knowledge and wisdom are good, but balance is necessary so that we do not become proud or conceited and bring harm to ourselves and become wicked.

For example, we may point out the errors of other people and become hypercritical. Ask yourself: Are you the type of person who feels self-righteous and argues and makes known their opinions to everyone, and quickly condemning anyone who does not live up to their personal standards? Are you the type of person who simply embarrasses others by being loud and boisterous? This can lead to anyone’s downfall, because such ones will begin to lose respect for those around them; and, may forget the weaknesses-which may be different from those of the people we criticizes-and the imperfection that we all inherited.-Matthew 7:1-5.

Compare: Matthew 6:1; 21:31; 23:12; Luke 18:9-14; James 4:6; 1 Peter 5:5.

This is all well and good advice but your answer has the same problem I have with all the answers I've seen. It is that they focus only on the overly righteous part and downplays or ignores the next two verses.

"It is good to grasp the one
and not let go of the other."

This doesn't sound like the writer is simply talking about balance in being righteous. "not let go of the other." (I assume it's referring to wickedness) sounds like the writer is saying to embrace a little bit of wickedness.

MrMoe · Oct 6, 2019

Jonaitis said:
This is one of the funniest passages in the Scriptures - especially verse 17. If you read it as sarcastic, it is funny.

Regardless, this passage is referring to the fleeting life of a man (who is lost), that as his days are he should enjoy them, and when they pass away they will never again enjoy anything under the sun. It is a way of saying that your life is so "vain" that you may as well take every advantage to make it enjoyable. If you live overly righteous, you will live a unpleasant life for nothing. If you are overly wicked, your life will be cut short and you won't enjoy it.

This is NOT Solomon saying that this life is truly vain and that we can do whatever we want, it is him preaching to the choir who will never come to Christ and will still remain unrepentant. "Might as well live your profitless life in pleasure, because this will be your only heaven and after this is your eternal home in darkness and silence."

So it is throwing the atheist worldview in their own face, sarcastically and rhetorically "encouraging" them in order to convict them and make them look for more than here and now. He even says this toward the end of the book:

"Rejoice, O young man, in your youth, and let your heart cheer you in the days of your youth. Walk in the ways of your heart and the sight of your eyes. But know that for all these things God will bring you into judgment." - Ecclesiastes 11:9

This book is evangelistic, if you think about it, to those who are so caught up in this life. This is one good book to preach from to win souls who are carried away by the cares of this life.

This explanation makes the most sense so far. Thanks.

1213 · Oct 6, 2019

MrMoe said:
...On face value it seems like they are basically saying don't be too good, which seems to go against what Jesus said in Matthew 5:48. So what are we to make of these verses?

Don't be overly righteous, neither make yourself overly wise. Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16

I have understood the meaning is, if you look very righteous and wise to other people, they will hate you and probably even kill you. People often don’t like if someone looks much better than them. I think Jesus is good example of this. He was too good and got killed.

I think it doesn’t mean we should not be righteous and good. It is just that we should not let it show annoyingly.

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What are these verses saying?

MrMoe

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spiritualchristian7

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icxn

Bραδύγλωσσος αἰπόλος μαθητεύων κνίζειν συκάμινα

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Mark51

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roman2819

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Jonaitis

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MrMoe

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MrMoe

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MrMoe

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1213

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