The Normalizing Of Bastard Children

Are Bastard children acceptable?

  • Yes, I had some

    Votes: 6 27.3%
  • yes,people can do what that want even if it opposes Gods law

    Votes: 4 18.2%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 6 27.3%
  • No. All my kids are Blessed (Born in wedlock)

    Votes: 1 4.5%
  • No,Gods will is for children to be born in wedlock.

    Votes: 5 22.7%

  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .

St_Worm2

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No, not Antichrist. Just human, and prejudiced.
Sorry to be a bother, but do you mean that's true of all of his (I guess you could call them) personal statements in his Epistles, or just certain, personal comments of his?

Thanks again!

--David
 
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mama2one

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A person shouldn't need to rely on their grandparents or surrogate parents to raise them,they should have their own parents raise them.

it's not always possible for children to be raised by birthparents

there's a great loss when a child doesn't know their birthparents

so having people believe as the OP states
"they should have their own parents raise them"
is not helpful for an adopted child OR any child where one or both of their parents is out of the picture
 
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ChicanaRose

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the OP is deliberately trying to be crass just for clickbait and then hides behind "Gods language"

The poll answer options were biased that I couldn't vote.
 
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Sketcher

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Some people might complain about the word Bastard being used but I just want to say this is Gods language so it can never be unclean so please respect that. The problem is Christians have been influenced by the heathens of this world and been persuaded to abandon Gods clean sacred language. Here are some verses:

Deuteronomy 23 2
''A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.''


hebrews 12:7-8
''If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.''


So God clearly wants children to enter into the world in a certain manner. Just wandering if people here think having a Bastard child is acceptable or marriage before the child's birth is essential? The world keeps pushing for more and more of Gods will to be eliminated,please bear in mind this ultimately is an issue of how adults and potential parents conduct themselves,not an attack on children so curious how the forum felt on this issue. Thanks.
Remember that Deuteronomy 23:1-10 had more restrictions than that:

"No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the LORD.
"No one born of a forbidden union may enter the assembly of the LORD. Even to the tenth generation, none of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD.
"No Ammonite or Moabite may enter the assembly of the LORD. Even to the tenth generation, none of them may enter the assembly of the LORD forever, because they did not meet you with bread and with water on the way, when you came out of Egypt, and because they hired against you Balaam the son of Beor from Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse you. But the LORD your God would not listen to Balaam; instead the LORD your God turned the curse into a blessing for you, because the LORD your God loved you. You shall not seek their peace or their prosperity all your days forever.
"You shall not abhor an Edomite, for he is your brother. You shall not abhor an Egyptian, because you were a sojourner in his land.
Children born to them in the third generation may enter the assembly of the LORD.​

The New Testament however, spoke better of eunuchs (Matthew 19:12, Acts 8:26-39), and in fact of people of every nationality (Matthew 28:19-20, Mark 16:15-16, John 3:16-17, Colossians 3:11, Revelation 7:9-16). Furthermore, the curtain in the temple which separated the Most Holy Place from the rest of the temple, was torn when Jesus died (Matthew 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 23:45). The Old Covenant, with its restrictions on who could approach God and when, was put aside.

The example used in Hebrews 12:7-8 does not reinforce the Deuteronomy prohibition on bastards entering God's presence, but rather it was an example from society that was known by the people the author was writing to, which he then used to make a point.

Children should not be conceived out of wedlock, ideally. It's not good when it happens, but it happens. And when it happens, it's not the child's fault. There is no reason in line with the Gospel to treat such children as second class. Fornicators and adulterers must repent. Rapists, too. But the shame is 100% theirs, none of it belongs to the child.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Sorry to be a bother, but do you mean that's true of all of his (I guess you could call them) personal statements in his Epistles, or just certain, personal comments of his?

Thanks again!

--David

No bother at all. The ones that are merely cultural. For instance, a woman with short hair was the sign of a prostitute as part of an identifier. Jewish women were uneducated in the Torah, and if not a prophetess, could interrupt meetings with questions, so were to ask their husbands at home. Paul, brought up a Jew and a Pharisee no less would naturally not allow a woman to speak. As for Eve's sin in his reasoning, her's was unintentional, as she had never heard a lie before. Note that nothing happened when she ate. But Adam's was intentional, and it was his sin that opened their eyes and they saw they were both naked. Scripture always points to Adam's sin. Only Paul blames the woman. Hmmmmm Know the scriptures, and you can easily tell the difference between Spirit and personal opinion. It is usually men that can't tell the difference in this particular case. I wonder why? LOL

Women are educated today, and have been for decades. I almost said centuries, but its been only since the second world war that women have been recognized as having a brain. You know it was Jesus who set women free; but men who chained them back up.
 
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redleghunter

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No bother at all. The ones that are merely cultural. For instance, a woman with short hair was the sign of a prostitute as part of an identifier. Jewish women were uneducated in the Torah, and if not a prophetess, could interrupt meetings with questions, so were to ask their husbands at home. Paul, brought up a Jew and a Pharisee no less would naturally not allow a woman to speak. As for Eve's sin in his reasoning, her's was unintentional, as she had never heard a lie before. Note that nothing happened when she ate. But Adam's was intentional, and it was his sin that opened their eyes and they saw they were both naked. Scripture always points to Adam's sin. Only Paul blames the woman. Hmmmmm Know the scriptures, and you can easily tell the difference between Spirit and personal opinion. It is usually men that can't tell the difference in this particular case. I wonder why? LOL

Women are educated today, and have been for decades. I almost said centuries, but its been only since the second world war that women have been recognized as having a brain. You know it was Jesus who set women free; but men who chained them back up.
Adam blamed Eve.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Adam blamed Eve.

So did Paul.

But when Paul was in the Spirit, he said:

Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. (Not Eve)
 
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Cis.jd

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Do you have a view on if it's good or bad that the single mums got their bastard child rather than be married?

I think it's bad and reckless. I do know the type of women you are talking about btw. Most of them where spoiled rich girls.

The best thing we can do is pray that these women become good and responsible mothers.

Also, A child should not be faulted for the sins/mistakes of their parents and at the same time we should also take in note that just because we believe in Jesus doesn't mean we are automatically better people than anyone else. There are many Christians who are such horrible people, regardless of what they believe.

I don't like calling children "bastards", because in our vocabulary it has become derogatory and offensive to others. You can say "the Bible says it" but you have to understand the difference in times. These where times where many cultures took importance to inheritance (ex: the King's son would inherit the throne) hence the word "bastard" may not have been as offensive to people back then.
 
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redleghunter

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So did Paul.

But when Paul was in the Spirit, he said:

Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. (Not Eve)
He was communicating Holy Spirit inspired teachings in both situations.

Adam was responsible for the Fall because Eve came from Adam.

God’s creative order was God over man, woman came from man, man and woman over all creation.


Satan taking on the form of a serpent reversed the order when he tempted Eve

Satans order was animal, woman, man, man disobeys God thinking he can become like God.

So it is no wonder Paul taught Biblical truth in his epistles.
 
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coffee4u

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Yes, let's think of yet one more reason to drive people away from Christ. So who is going to be our next target after "bastard" children are all condemned and sent into everlasting perdition?

Also why I didn't answer.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
 
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Thir7ySev3n

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John: 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God
13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Those who believe in Him are part of God's family, and they need not worry about anything else.


As for society:

I Corinthians 5:9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.

As for the church:


11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

As for the repentant:


2 Corinthians 2:6 This punishment which was inflicted by the majority is sufficient for such a man, 7 so that, on the contrary, you ought rather to forgive and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one be swallowed up with too much sorrow. 8 Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love to him. 9 For to this end I also wrote, that I might put you to the test, whether you are obedient in all things. 10 Now whom you forgive anything, I also forgive. For b]">[b]if indeed I have forgiven anything, I have forgiven that one for your sakes in the presence of Christ, 11 lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices.

2 Corinthians 7:8 For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while. 9 Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.


Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

James 5:19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

This is the winner. Just Scripture putting everything in its proper and balanced place without all the personal worthless opinion. There is a severity against uncleanness and a tenderness towards genuine repentance. A time for discipline and a time for restoration, if the guilty person will rightly receive it. However, usually discipline and harshness are circumvented to cheat restoration, and consequently both perish together.
 
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Thir7ySev3n

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Some people might complain about the word Bastard being used but I just want to say this is Gods language so it can never be unclean so please respect that. The problem is Christians have been influenced by the heathens of this world and been persuaded to abandon Gods clean sacred language. Here are some verses:

Deuteronomy 23 2
''A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.''


hebrews 12:7-8
''If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.''


So God clearly wants children to enter into the world in a certain manner. Just wandering if people here think having a Bastard child is acceptable or marriage before the child's birth is essential? The world keeps pushing for more and more of Gods will to be eliminated,please bear in mind this ultimately is an issue of how adults and potential parents conduct themselves,not an attack on children so curious how the forum felt on this issue. Thanks.

As for bastard children, there is no question it is an unclean thing. However, the parents alone are guilty, though the children suffer the consequences (Ezekiel 18).

This is why I agree with the statement that there are no illegitimate children, only illegitimate parents, though the consequences of this moral uncleanness are inherited.
 
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zoidar

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In the Hebrew/Jewish scriptures "unclean" does not necessarily imply fault of any sort but refers to what is acceptable for ritual purposes mainly in the temple.

You can be unclean for having your period, you can also be unclean for touching a dead body. These are things that have to happen. Someone has to bury the dead and women have their period.

EDIT: This was what happened in the OT. I’m not advocating this view but merely stating facts.

But it's NT writing. For some reason Paul says it. Of course he is all for being married before having children, but it seems to be something more he wants to say. Why would he say it at all if it only has to do with the old covenant?
 
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DamianWarS

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I don't have a problem with King James language. I know the historical meaning of bastard, and don't hear very much in the way of swearing, so I'm not offended with the OP.
I know the meaning of the word and know that the OP is using the proper historical meaning but I question the motive behind using it as there are other ways of describing the same yet the OP makes it clear since this is "Gods [sic] language" that we should value it regardless what it's colloquial meanings may be.

Either it is a KJV only-st sentiment (which I'm not interested in)
or an insensitive sentiment just for shock value or to be overly argumentative (also not interested in)

using "bastard" tells a lot about the tone of the OP and it's just something I can't subscribe to. every child is valued by God regardless of what situation they are born into and I don't know the agenda here of the OP that we should ostracize children and their families born out of wedlock? There are biblical ways of dealing with immorality within the church and those should be followed but it would be counter-gospel to superimpose this to those outside the church, especially OT law which just misses the point altogether.
 
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DamianWarS

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The poll answer options were biased that I couldn't vote.
exactly...

the poll question and it's options are

Are Bastard children acceptable?
  1. Yes, I had some
  2. yes, people can do what that want even if it opposes Gods law
  3. Not sure
  4. No. All my kids are Blessed (Born in wedlock)
  5. No, Gods will is for children to be born in wedlock.
well what happened to just "yes" and "no". the entire poll is a trap and it just reinforces the bias the OP wants to present.

here is my answer.

Are Bastard children acceptable?
1. Yes, all children are acceptable to God and to say anything else would be counter-gospel.
 
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coffee4u

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I know the meaning of the word and know that the OP is using the proper historical meaning but I question the motive behind using it as there are other ways of describing the same yet the OP makes it clear since this is "Gods [sic] language" that we should value it regardless what it's colloquial meanings may be.

Either it is a KJV only-st sentiment (which I'm not interested in)
or an insensitive sentiment just for shock value or to be overly argumentative (also not interested in)

using "bastard" tells a lot about the tone of the OP and it's just something I can't subscribe to. every child is valued by God regardless of what situation they are born into and I don't know the agenda here of the OP that we should ostracize children and their families born out of wedlock? There are biblical ways of dealing with immorality within the church and those should be followed but it would be counter-gospel to superimpose this to those outside the church, especially OT law which just misses the point altogether.

Slightly OT, but this makes me think of Rahab and the woman caught in adultery.
Hebrews 11:31
31 By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.
John 8:7-9
7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”
8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
 
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Anguspure

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Ok how would you word the questions?
Like my Grandmother used to say: If you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.
 
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Anguspure

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Maybe people instead of being angry could show the fruit of the sprit-temperance.
Frankly, I think, given the nature of the OP, people have been exceedingly temperate and gentle.
 
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Anguspure

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Well I think it's very reasonable to judge people based on their behaviour. That's what God will do and it's fair,if a person feels shame for what they do.....don't do it.

Yeah we can have grace but don't pretend that the rebuke is the problem,because it's only the highlighter to the problem.
Name calling in this fashion only serves to alienate. Godly rebuke serves to correct and draw closer.
 
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