The Epistle of James > theology . . . love-ology (c:

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Well if we say that the ot books can help us walk with God, and you happen to come across the passage where God commanded the Jew who picked up sticks on the sabbath to be stoned, what will be your response?
One thing I think of, now, is the capital punishments show that "the wages of sin is death". And so we need Jesus who has taken our death penalty upon Himself.

Also, Jesus wants us to have "rest for your souls" > in Matthew 11:28-30. So, our rest can be every day, in our souls. And always do God's works, not our own works.

For me, this brings us back to something we and others have been discussing, about faith without works being dead. I see how the works are God's works through us. So, they are not just evidence, but what God does is essential.

So, what do you get about the guy getting stoned for picking up sticks?
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,774
1,309
sg
✟214,848.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
One thing I think of, now, is the capital punishments show that "the wages of sin is death". And so we need Jesus who has taken our death penalty upon Himself.

Also, Jesus wants us to have "rest for your souls" > in Matthew 11:28-30. So, our rest can be every day, in our souls. And always do God's works, not our own works.

For me, this brings us back to something we and others have been discussing, about faith without works being dead. I see how the works are God's works through us. So, they are not just evidence, but what God does is essential.

So, what do you get about the guy getting stoned for picking up sticks?

What you are saying is that Jesus's DBR has made that law irrelevant for us now. You can learn lessons from that incident, but you need not worry about its application to you.

Its therefore the same when you read the book of James. When you come across him saying "Faith without works is dead", you adopt the same principle "You can learn lessons from that incident, but you need not worry about its application to you".

You don't need to go thru hula hoops to reconcile James with Paul, there is no need to, just as you won't do that for Numbers 15:32-36.
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
James 3:9 >

"With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God." (James 3:9)

This comes right after James says the tongue is "an unruly evil, full of deadly poison."

I notice, here, how even while James is talking to the twelve scattered tribes, he is saying God is "our God and Father". And he says men "have been made in the similitude of God."

Now, I can see this means God does not want us to curse even wrong people. They are made in His similitude. And Jesus wants us to bless and not to curse > "bless those who curse you", we have in Matthew 5:44 and also in Luke 6:28. Also, Peter says we need to bless one another, relating as family with one another in Jesus >

"Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous; not returning evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary blessing, knowing that you were called to this, that you may inherit a blessing." (1 Peter 3:8-9)

So, this is not congratulating me. I might be too "smart" to be heard saying things that curse people, because pride can have me not wanting to look bad to people. But in my imagination, I can have very ungodly sessions with people who are a problem for me. So, my imagination's tongue can still be unruly and evil . . . not blessing. But now, more than before, I see James confronting me, yes, but with hope for us to do better . . . with God, submitting to how God corrects us and has us blessing.

And I consider how God blessed His creatures when He first made them. And look at how creatures are still going, even after all the evil they have faced. I see this is because of how God blessed them. So, this can show how much blessing can do. And we are with Jesus, for blessing for eternity, ministering God's own grace, not only keeping people alive on this earth for a while.

So, when Jesus and Paul and James and Peter indicate we should bless, this does not mean just to make a gesture.

Today, I got in a bad way and I knew I was in trouble. I was depressed and this after I had been pretty severe in my mind against some imagined people. And I knew the evil spirit of that paranoid cursing could be connected with the depression coming later. And I was thinking of the pastors recently committing suicide and I knew I was in trouble, unless God did real correction in me. So, I was for some while being quiet and waiting for how only God could change me to peace and goodness of love and loving and praying. And He did have mercy on me, and then I was being kind and friendly with different people, and I would say God used this to get me into right by loving, you might say.

And I was kind instead of criticizing, and being encouraging with people. And then I was with my lady friend, for a while. So, here we are :)

And I think of something, with this > if people aren't blessing you . . . not loving you > they are not having a nice day; so instead of letting wrong and nasty people have power to make us victims, we need to have compassion on them. But Jesus even on the cross was praying forgiveness to people. With God, we are ones who can help people, be their example, but be gentle and humble about it :)
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
When you come across him saying "Faith without works is dead", you adopt the same principle
I offer I understand what you are saying. But James is not talking about works of the law or works of righteousness which we have gotten ourselves to will to do.

His examples of works, in chapter two, are works of love . . . works like the New Testament tells us to do. And we do need to live in His love which makes our faith and works alive the way God's love is alive.

James does not say works of the Law.

Plus, later in this epistle, James describes wisdom which is from above. And this description for me is a match with how Jesus is and how Paul describes love in 1 Corinthians 13. So, I would say it is or can be understood that James means not only outward works of the Law, but works of this wisdom in our character.

This is not what we find brought out, never mind emphasized, in Numbers.
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,774
1,309
sg
✟214,848.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I offer I understand what you are saying. But James is not talking about works of the law or works of righteousness which we have gotten ourselves to will to do.

His examples of works, in chapter two, are works of love . . . works like the New Testament tells us to do. And we do need to live in His love which makes our faith and works alive the way God's love is alive.

James does not say works of the Law.

Then how would you understand Acts 21, where he told Paul to pay for the expenses for those Nazarites shaving their heads?

Was that works of the Law or works of love, and what was the purpose of Paul doing that?
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Then how would you understand Acts 21
I have been asked about this, before . . . somewhere.

It can mean Paul understood he was a Jew and so he needed to keep the Law. This is what a number of people say.

It can mean Paul goofed and gave in to pressure, even after all he shares in Galatians 2:11-13. The fact that Paul did that does not automatically mean he was obligated by our New Testament to do that. It is Canon Scripture saying that's what he said and did; but whether it was right and accurate, what he said and did, is not necessarily true. After all, among other things, Paul and Barnabas did have that fight, and it appears Paul was wrong. But Barnabas who was more mature did not give up on Mark. So, the fact he did those things does not necessarily mean he should have.

Except . . . also . . . for another possibility > Paul did it in order to be all things to all men > 1 Corinthians 9:19-23. With Jews, Paul was as a Jew. But he does share things which support that he no longer considered his true identity to be Jewish.

My personal prejudice is that Paul knows he is no longer truly of flesh and blood Jewish identity. And he is not under the Law. But there are reported times, when he refuses to go along with Law-Jewish things; but at other times he does go along. This can be inconsistency, and/or it can be reaching different people at their level.

What he really needed was his thorn in the flesh experience, I think. This dealt with him deeper than flesh and blood identity and technicalities about what outward rules to keep.

And the emphasis of James is Christian character and submission to God, and things about how to love. He also does not make a special point or project of saying anyone needs to keep the Law.
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
James 3:10 >

"Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so." (James 3:10)

One might ask how it is that a person of one's character is capable of both blessing and cursing people. My opinion is the person's blessing is not real. It might be like how a street alcoholic begging for spare change can say God bless you when you give, but can be cussing when someone does not.

James is giving a strong confrontation, here. But there is the understood encouragement to become family with God and join in God's blessing. I notice how James calls the readers "My brethren" > so, James is not talking down to us, but he is sharing with us as his family. But this needs correction of our nature so that out of the abundance of our hearts we truly are ministering blessing and not only speaking it.

I think of how Abraham, by the way, has gotten "all the nations of the earth" "blessed" >

"'In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.'" (Genesis 22:18)

This is what the LORD says to Abraham after Abraham offered up his son Isaac.

So, blessing does not come only with speaking and praying blessing to people. But obedience to God works to bless even any and all people . . . like how "all the nations of the earth" have been blessed because of the obedience of Abraham. God is all-loving; so, by obeying God who is all-loving, Abraham has gotten an all-loving result.

And I see how this is our example. We can personally hear from God and be guided by God so we are blessing in His all-loving love. Abraham did not only copy-cat a rule, but God personally told Abraham what to do, in some detail.

So > do what God has you do in the ruling of His peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,774
1,309
sg
✟214,848.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
And the emphasis of James is Christian character and submission to God, and things about how to love. He also does not make a special point or project of saying anyone needs to keep the Law.

But in v20, it was explicitly stated that

“You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law

Isn't it clearly stated that, to James and the elders, they believe that the Jews need to believe in Jesus AND keep the law of Moses?

You have a different interpretation of what v20 is saying?
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
But in v20, it was explicitly stated that

“You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law

Isn't it clearly stated that, to James and the elders, they believe that the Jews need to believe in Jesus AND keep the law of Moses?
That's what they said. I notice how they use the "everybody else is doing it" argument. And what they say could be true or an exaggeration . . . for all I know. They do not directly say he must do it because of something Jesus has said.

And, like I said, James does not use works of the Law, in his examples of works of faith, in chapter two of the epistle of James. These works . . . to me, anyway . . . look like they are more about personal loving with personal communication involved > with people or personal communication with God, like with Abraham offering up his son Isaac.
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,774
1,309
sg
✟214,848.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That's what they said. I notice how they use the "everybody else is doing it" argument. And what they say could be true or an exaggeration . . . for all I know. They do not directly say he must do it because of something Jesus has said.

And, like I said, James does not use works of the Law, in his examples of works of faith, in chapter two of the epistle of James. These works . . . to me, anyway . . . look like they are more about personal loving with personal communication involved > with people or personal communication with God, like with Abraham offering up his son Isaac.

The Book of James was written before the events in Acts 21.

So when an event in the future tells you what James was thinking about, but you choose to ignore it because you are trying to "fit Paul into James", that to me is unnecessarily mental gymnastics.

To me, James meant literally what he stated in his chapter 2, faith without works is indeed dead, and his point to Paul in Acts 21 reinforced it.

James is not a poor communicator, he does not need any of us to try to explain to 21st century readers what "he really meant". He meant what is stated.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
But in v20, it was explicitly stated that

“You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law

Isn't it clearly stated that, to James and the elders, they believe that the Jews need to believe in Jesus AND keep the law of Moses?
Looking only at that quote of verse 20 >
That's what they said. I notice how they use the "everybody else is doing it" argument. And what they say could be true or an exaggeration . . . for all I know. They do not directly say he must do it because of something Jesus has said.
But now I have read some of the context, and it does look like James was telling Paul to show that he keeps the Law. And Paul was going to go into the Temple and do what James said.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Guojing
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,774
1,309
sg
✟214,848.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Looking only at that quote of verse 20 >
But now I have read some of the context, and it does look like James was telling Paul to show that he keeps the Law. And Paul was going to go into the Temple and do what James said.

And the saddest thing I felt when I read Acts 22-24 when Paul was defending against the same hostile Jews, none of them, neither James nor the elders, even bothered to come and defend him.

It is as if they are somewhat glad that this "troublemaker is finally gone from them".
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
neither James nor the elders, even bothered to come and defend him.

It is as if they are somewhat glad that this "troublemaker is finally gone from them".
I think they were more approving of Paul, than that. But it is true how Peter withdrew from Gentiles, at Antioch > Galatians 2:11-13. And possibly they, too, were not as strong as they could have been.

But . . . then . . . was that the James who wrote this epistle of James? I do not find obvious conflict of this epistle with the theology of Paul. Without even trying, I offer, I keep finding how Paul and John and Jude and Peter all provide what is helpful commentary on what I am now reading and feeding on in James.

But I realize ones are even very displeased with this epistle. So, I made a point of putting this in "General Theology" so others are as free as possible to speak for themselves about they have been blessed through the epistle of James.
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
James 3:11 >

"Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening?" (James 3:11)

I think of how Jesus says,

"'Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.'" > Matthew 12:34. So, Jesus says an evil person is incapable of speaking what is good. And James is saying, I see he means, that your heart can not at the same time be good and evil so we can say good and evil things.

But I see this means what really is evil or what really is good. This does not mean an evil person can't fake good by saying, for example, "God bless you", when the person does not mean it. Evil people can fake talking what is good. But they can't minister God's own grace from their hearts, like Paul says to do > Ephesians 4:29.

And Luke 6:45 says,

"'A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.'"

So, I see this shows that we can not be speaking both good and evil from the same heart. So, we can see, I think, how the Holy Spirit through James, here, means we need the character of Jesus in us, so we can speak what is truly good and not just a show. Jesus in us is our Creator . . . who creates the good things we speak. And this, of course, ministers grace >

"Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers." (Ephesians 4:29)

This comes with growing in Christ in our hearts. Jesus in us makes us life-giving, more and more . . . ministering God's own grace which makes us more and more mature in Jesus and how Jesus is "life-giving" > 1 Corinthians 15:45.

And Peter says,

"not returning evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary blessing, knowing that you were called to this, that you may inherit a blessing." (1 Peter 3:9)

So, yes we do have the power to speak blessing which ministers God's own grace. But we need to . . . must . . . not speak what is reviling.

And our Apostle Paul says,

"Do all things without complaining and disputing," (in Philippians 2:13-16)

This means, like James says, that we are not to have evil words and good words coming out of the same opening. There is to be no complaining and arguing, and then acting like we are blessing and worshiping God. Arguing and complaining are anti-love, anti- becoming like Jesus. Paul says if we do every single thing and every m-a-r-r-i-e-d thing "without complaining and disputing" > we can > "become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation".

So, the focus of not speaking what is bitter is that we become like Christ . . . in our hearts, so that out of the abundance of Jesus in us, we can minister God's own grace.

So, we have a very high standard here, commanded by James and Peter and Paul, all along with Jesus. God commands this, because God knows it is realistic to expect this because

"The things which are impossible with men are possible with God,"


Jesus says in Luke 18:27.

I am sure this is what James means, because you can not have only right things coming out of your mouth, unless our hearts are being changed to be like Jesus > as Paul does say . . . and prays this for us >

"that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith," in Ephesians 3:17.

And, of course, the Holy Spirit really is the One who means this through our writers of Canon Scripture.
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
James 3:12 >

"Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh." (James 3:12)

Well, I believe that both olives and figs are good to eat. But I think I see James' point. I personally get how genetics of a plant can decide which fruit it is capable of bearing. And this could be representative of how we need to have the character of Jesus so we can bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit. And we grow in this.

And we have how a spring can't produce both salty water and fresh water. Like this > if we are in the Holy Spirit of "living water" John 7:37-39 > this is fresh and sweetly pleasing to our Father. I see how James is saying we can not be putting out sweet and loving water, and at the same time be able to have bitter and nasty stuff in us.

Possibly, for commentary on this, then, we can feed on Philippians 2:13-16 which includes >

"Do all things without complaining and disputing," (Philippians 2:14)

Complaining and arguing are not sweet and refreshing in Jesus' love. They, then, are anti-love. And so we need to put them away > "that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation" (also in Philippians 2:13-16).

And there are things which can help to cause arguing and complaining; our Apostle Paul says >

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice." (Ephesians 4:31 > note James 3:14-16)

By putting away the evil things that can help to cause arguing and complaining, this can help us to get more into living in God's love and spreading the grace of how God's love effects us (Ephesians 4:29, 1 Peter 4:9-10).

But yes there are people who say their arguments can be creative . . . discussion to bring out issues they are concerned about. So, in any case, we need to be prayerful, and be about how God's love can have us becoming "blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation".

And Jesus says He is "gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30) So, being gentle and humble in how we relate is included >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

So, I see that if we are gentle and quiet in God's love, our opening will have sweet water coming out. And God's love is all-loving . . . like Jesus on the cross was loving any and all people, with hope for any evil person, at all; so in this gentle and quiet love we share with Jesus on the cross, and we can be sweetly pleasing to our Father, like how Jesus was on the cross; and this is commanded >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
James 3:13 >

"Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom." (James 3:13)

So, to me it looks like James here is saying that if we are "wise and understanding", we should be doing things "in the meekness of wisdom."

But "meekness", I have understood, is not a thing of intellectual ability, of being smart. "Meekness" has to do with how our character is.

Jesus says,

"'Blessed are the meek;
. For they shall inherit the earth.'"

. . . . . . . (Matthew 5:5)

Here, "meek" is a way to be, which I would think, then, means how to be in our character.

And I understand "meekness" is a quality of the character of Jesus, because Jesus says, "I am meek and lowly in heart" in Matthew 11:28-30.

So, I can see James is talking about wisdom which is ability, and this is ability of God's love . . . creative ability in our Creator's love. And James connects God's way of wisdom to "meekness" which can have us inherit the whole earth.

Therefore, force and intelligence and independence and ingenuity of ego, and deceit and charm and financial cleverness are not what are guaranteed to accomplish what really matters. These are the ways of conquerors, but God's word says >

"Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us." (Romans 8:37)

So, now I think it might be good to check what my Strong's Greek dictionary has for definitions >

According to this source, "meekness" has to do with humility, gentleness, mildness.

And "wisdom" means . . . wisdom :)

So, I consider that God's word, here, is saying our ability needs to be in the meekness of Jesus. And this means in sharing with Jesus our Lord and Savior. So, this is so very good, how God does desire to share so personally with each of us, in His own love with His own creativity for how to please and submit to Him and how to love each and every person . . . in this all-loving love.

In our character being meek, Jesus is living in our character, and so our works are pleasing to God, by being done in the character of Jesus who is so pleasing to our Father.

"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." (Galatians 2:20)

So, in meekness I see we are not forcing and making things happen, and we are not controlling people. But we be submissive to God in His peace with His personal guiding in us > Colossians 3:15 > and we lead by example >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

And James says to "show by good conduct" > I see this includes being a good example . . . which we do show, but with humility > "meekness of wisdom".

So - - - thank You, God; the glory is to You.
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
James 3:14 >

"But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth." (James 3:14)

This is what God's word says; and God's word accomplishes what His word means to God > Isaiah 55:11. So, even if we know something in God's word, still we need His word to work what He means.

I think of how our Apostle Paul says >

"For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe." (1 Thessalonians 2:13)

So, yes God's word "works" in us. So, I see and consider, it is good to read and feed on every word of God, trusting how God will have His word do in us all He pleases . . . all He means.

And it is clear and good to know how "bitter envy and self-seeking" are wrong. And James here says bitter envy and self-seeking can be in our "hearts" > so, bitterness and selfishness are not just physical brain function psychological problems, I can see, but in our "hearts" they would be problems of character.

So, I see, then, how circumstances and talking and drugs and reforming our behavior can not cure how our hearts make us able to give in to bitterness and selfishness, since these are spiritual, of character, not what physical things and action can reach and change.

And so we need how God's word spiritually works to change us in our character so we do not give in to bitter stuff and selfish stuff. And discover how to love, instead. Do not lie about it and do not be in denial, but seek how our Father is able to change us to loving like Jesus. And, of course, know how God does use us to help one another, by our prayer and good example and sharing in God's word with each other :pray::groupray::idea::clap::amen::pray::prayer:
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
"But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic." (James 3:14-15)

I notice how James talks about "envy and self-seeking" as being "wisdom". And this word for "wisdom" is translated from the same word which talks about God's wisdom. So, I guess this means there are good and bad ways to be wise . . . like how there can be love of money and there can be love of God > the same word can be talking about exact opposite things.

And the wrong way of wisdom has its wrong way of being in character > "earthly, sensual, demonic". But in God's wisdom, we are meek . . . so we can receive God's word in "meekness of wisdom", like we have in James 3:13.

This to me can mean . . . meekness in the disposition of our character. Wisdom, then, can involve how our character is, and our character can have a lot to do with what we are capable of thinking, believing, and how we are or are not able to share with God and submit to Him in His peace and love people the way Jesus wants.

"Envy and self-seeking" keep us from how we can share with God in His love.

And, with this, we have

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation," (in Philippians 2:13-16)

So, I see from this, how arguing and complaining can keep us from becoming "blameless and harmless" and "without fault" in God's love. So, the wisdom of arguing and complaining is "earthly, sensual, demonic", then, I can see. But Jesus is "meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30) By being in the wisdom of meekness, then, we share with Jesus who is "meek", and we have rest in our souls . . . because of how Jesus in us has our character become; so our wisdom is not about just how we act and think, but how our character is becoming.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
"But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic." (James 3:14-15)

Looking at my Berry interlinear Greek Bible >

"bitter envy" can be "emulation bitter" >

I see that envy can mean desire for what someone else has, emulation can mean effort to be or do more than someone else >

According to my Strong's Concordance Greek dictionary, the Greek word can mean hot or boiling with zeal or desire > this can be good or bad desire,

But if it is bitter it is not good.

And "self-seeking", or strife, of course, is not denying ourselves and taking up our cross daily and following Jesus > Luke 9:23. This is also believed to mean contention, and can involve provoking to anger, and intrigue and faction, according to my Concordance.

And James says this is not God's wisdom, but it is "earthly, sensual, demonic". And yes we understand that Satan wanted to take over Heaven. And now ones want to take over us and church things, and this in a self-seeking way, with anger and struggling and arguing and complaining. And this is "demonic" . . . not >

"submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21)

"swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath" (in James 1:19-20)

"He who answers a matter before he hears it,
. It is folly and shame to him."
. . . . . . . . . .. . . . . (Proverbs 18:13)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
James 3:16 >

"For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there." (James 3:16)

So, from this I see how by wanting what someone else has, and mainly caring only about my own self, I can get into confusion and "every" kind of evil. I see that every sort of evil person started with envy and self-seeking, but then got worse enough to do what he or she has done >

"But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:13)

People become worse enough to do what they do.

Each of us can start with a seed.

For example, ones allow the seed attitude in themselves to feel that rain is a pain. They even judge and condemn God's blessing of rain > your children can actually hear people on TV calling rain "bad" weather. They allow this blasphemy in their heart, but then they have doomed themselves to have a lousy time, whenever it rains; because they are not thanking God for blessing us with water that we so need to live, on this planet. And so, they get dismal and gloomy, instead. After accepting that little seed of considering rain to be bad - - how they will keep reaping all that lousy-feeling time they will have, for the rest of their lives!! . . . unless they get wise to this.

And we see how people became able to even hate and torture and murder God's own Son. Mommies and daddies, even, became able to curse their own children with the blood of Jesus > Matthew 27:25 >

"And all the people said, 'His blood be on us and on our children.'" (Matthew 27:25)

These people included, I would say, respectable religious working family people who became able to call for the murder of Jesus, because they were self-seeking and capable of envy. Just by being self-seeking, we stay available to do any evil, at all, without even knowing this.

I notice how Germany was a well-established culture with education and religion and technology, but Adolph Hitler was able to get enough Germans to work his S.S. and fight to destroy the whole world. Self-seeking maintained them to stay available for such Satanic activity.

"'If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.'" (in Luke 9:23)

Our cross includes the love which had Jesus so suffering and dying for any and all of us, with hope for any person, at all > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7)

But if we are in self-seeking, a rainy day can have us losing hope to have a good day with God!! And then people wonder why they can be breaking down in various mental and emotional trouble, boredom and loneliness; but I think it is very simple to understand > in the weakness of our self-seeking, we are weak enough to break down into more and more deep trouble. We reap so much more than our little seeds we have allowed to start growing in us.

So, now may God restart us, update us, in His love.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0