Visualizing "Fire from Heaven" (Rev 20:9)

LittleLambofJesus

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I was just comparing it to known second coming passages in the NT. Fire isn't used against the enemy at the second coming.
You can't have a burning City without fire............
70AD Apostate Jerusalem was the enemy of Christ and the NC Saints

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 17:16
And the ten Horns which thou saw and the Beast, These shall be hating the harlot,
and They shall be making Her desolate<2049> and naked,
and the fleshes of Her they shall be eating
and shall be burning Her in fire.

17 For the GOD gives<1325> into Their hearts to do<4160> the mind<1106> of Him, and to do One mind
and to give Their kingdom to the Beast
until shall be being finished<5055> the words of the GOD.

Revelation 18:18
And they cried<2896>, observing the smoke of Her burning, saying, "What like to the great City?"
19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried<2896>, lamenting<2799>, weeping and mourning<3996>, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships<4143> in the sea, out of Her preciousness<5094>,
for to one hour was She was desolated<2049>.
--===============================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ;

The tumult and disorder which ensued upon this event, it is impossible (says Josephus) for language to describe. The Roman legions made the most horrid outcries ; the rebels, finding themselves exposed to the fury of both fire and sword, screamed dreadfully ; while the unhappy people who were pent up between the enemy and the flames, deplored their situation in the most pitiable complaints. Those on the hill and those in the city seemed mutually to return the groans of each other. Such as were expiring through famine, were revived by this hideous scene, and seemed to acquire new spirits to deplore their misfortunes. The lamentations from the city wore re-echoed from the adjacent mountains, and places beyond Jordan.
The flames which enveloped the Temple were so violent and impetuous, that the lofty hill. on which it stood appeared, even front its deep foundations, as one large body of fire.

==========================
Chris Strevel: Rome or Jerusalem? A Comparative Analysis of the Harlot Imagery in Revelation 17 (2005)

By Chris Strevel
Statement of the Question

The purpose of this paper is to investigate the harlot imagery utilized by the apostle John in Revelation 17 and to determine as far as possible its historical referent. My purpose may be more narrowly defined. Through the judgment of the great harlot, was John referring to the destruction of the imperial city of Rome or of the city of Jerusalem? Though all schools of interpretation have wrestled with the identity of the harlot, the question is especially important for the preterist. Though many commentators are willing to recognize that John made use of these historical cities as his literary and historical background, they refuse to admit that it was his chief purpose to foresee the divine judgment upon them. Because preterists believe that John was writing to the seven churches in Asia concerning events that were to occur in their immediate lifetimes, they maintain that the cities and movements of that day were the primary referent of the majority of John’s prophecies. It is inappropriate, therefore, to continue searching for the harlot of Revelation 17. This prophetic symbol has been realized in one of these two historical cities.

The Jerusalem Interpretation

Strong evidence exists for the view that the harlot is the apostate city of Jerusalem. Milton Terry and James Stuart Russell were two leading advocates of this view in the 19th century. A resurgence of this view may be seen in the through the commentaries and writings of J. Massyngberde Ford, Cornelius Vanderwaal, Ken Gentry, and the late David Chilton. The initial strengths of this view are its conformity to the analogy of Scriptural in determining the significance of “harlot,” consistent application of John’s symbolism, and understanding of the significance of Jerusalem’s fall in A.D. 70 for redemptive history. Gentry summarizes the evidence for the Jerusalem=harlot interpretation.

Briefly, the evidence for the identifying of Jerusalem as the Harlot is based on the following: (1) Both are called ‘the great city’ (Rev. 14:8; 11:8). (2) The Harlot is filled with the blood of the saints (cp. Rev. 16:6; 17:6; 18:21,24; w/ Matt. 23:34-48; Luke 13:33; Acts 7:51,52). (3) Jerusalem had previously been called by pagan names quite compatible with the designation ‘Babylon’ (cp. Rev. 14:8 and 17:5 with 11:8). (4) Rome could not fornicate against God, for only Jerusalem was God’s wife (Rev. 17:2-5; cp. Isa. 1:20; Jere. 31:31). (5) There is an obvious contrast between the Harlot and the chaste bride (cp. Rev. 17:2-5 with Rev. 21:1ff.) that suggests a contrast with the Jerusalem below and the Jerusalem above (Rev. 21;2; cp. Gal. 4:24ff.; Heb. 12:18). (6) The fact that the Harlot is seated on the seven-headed Beast (obviously representative of Rome) indicates not identify with Rome, but alliance with Rome against Christianity (cp. Matt. 23:37ff.; John 19:16ff.; Acts 17:7)..............

If that is the case, why do the majority of commentators dismiss the Jerusalem=harlot view with small footnotes and passing allusions? The answer to this question is complex. It centers around the failure of theologians and commentators to grasp or admit the significance of the Fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 for God’s redemptive program in history.................

Conclusion

It has not been my intention in this paper to explicate every textual detail in chapters 17 and 18 related to the judgment of the great harlot. Rather, I have endeavored to demonstrate that advocates of the Jerusalem=harlot view have a strong case to offer the Church of Christ in her ongoing attempt to correctly understand the final book of our English Bibles.

If that is the case, why do the majority of commentators dismiss the Jerusalem=harlot view with small footnotes and passing allusions? The answer to this question is complex. It centers around the failure of theologians and commentators to grasp or admit the significance of the Fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 for God’s redemptive program in history.

This event was a dramatic shift from the Jerusalem-based kingdom of God in the Old Testament and certainly required explication from the biblical authors. This is why Jesus spoke so often to the subject, and ultimately why he had John dedicate the final book of the New Testament to the one climactic event that would reveal the end of the old Jewish order in the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple environs in A.D. 70.
 
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ewq1938

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Something just came to mind.

Zechariah 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

This could simply be the fulfillment of the following. Don't know why I didn't think of this earlier.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Now it doesn't have to involve fire, thus doesn't need to involve Revelation 20:9.

Rev 19 shows death by brute force ie: a sword. The other passage in the OT shows flesh melting away which is most likely some type of extreme heat although it could be something like a flesh eating disease or something but it's not the type of death found in Rev 19.
 
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BABerean2

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Clearly not the second coming. The second coming and the slaughter is in Rev 19 and no fire is used and no one is at Jerusalem.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


Rev_18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,


Rev_18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!


Rev_19:3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

.
 
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Vicky gould

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Hi, my understanding is both anti-Christ and Christ are coming back as lightening. This I believe is what men who are describing something that is indescribable. For the Lord it will be the Shekinah Glory for anti-Christ as an angel he will counterfeit Christ and come as an angel of fire. I believe that the brightness of even the angels inferior counterfeit Shekinah Glory they will be so bright to be overwhelming. When the Lord returns He will defeat anti-Christ, the false prophet and their army of fallen angels with the , speaking of Christ, with the splendor of His coming His Shekinah Glory. What a God.
 
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Erik Nelson

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upload_2019-10-3_12-51-0.png


Jesus Christ has been mystically present, from his Assumption c.30 AD onwards (Matthew 28:20)

Thus, in a mystical spiritual sense, Christ never left

So, the resurrected martyred Saints could "reign with Christ" whether or not Revelation 19 depicts the 2C

---

Matthew 28:20 alludes to Matthew 24:3 and Matthew 13:40-49, "end of the age"

Matthew 24:3 lists three events in sequence:
  1. destruction of the temple (70 AD)
  2. signs of the Parousia (2C ?)
  3. end of the age (2C ?)
Matthew 13:40 equates the "end of the age" with the wicked being "burned in the fire...thrown into the blazing furnace" -- surely a reference to the Lake of Fire at FJ ?

Matthew 13:49 equates the "end of the age" with an Angelic "net" being lowered into a "lake" to extract "fish" -- surely a reference to the Lake of Fire at FJ ?

---

Thus, FJ is depicted as some sort of "surgically-accurate orbital strike", such that while the wicked are vaporized in fire, the righteous are raptured to safety, "one is taken the other left"
 
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Erik Nelson

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Rev 19 shows death by brute force ie: a sword. The other passage in the OT shows flesh melting away which is most likely some type of extreme heat although it could be something like a flesh eating disease or something but it's not the type of death found in Rev 19.
"sword" of the mouth, tongue?

Symbolizing evangelizing & preaching the Gospel ?

Everything in Rev symbolizes something, never was or will there be a 7-headed monster romping around on earth... the "Beast" is a symbol [plausibly of the pagan Roman empire, the 4th Kingdom & "Beast" of Daniel] ?

If so, even the Christ-like figure of Revelation 19 is also a similar symbol...
  • Beast --> pagan Roman empire
  • Babylonian harlot --> apostate 1st century Jerusalem & leadership
  • Beast defeats Babylon at Armageddon --> pagan Roman conquest of Jerusalem [in 70 AD]
  • Christ figure --> Church, "body of Christ" on earth
  • sword tongue --> evangelization
  • sword-swinging victory of Christ figure over Beast --> Church evangelizing, converting & so over-coming the pagan Roman empire [in 4th century AD]
 
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keras

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Lightning.
Very close; robycop!
Many prophesies tell of the lightning flashes and the rain of fiery coals, etc. Habakkuk 3:4, Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:14, that the Lord will send on His Day of fiery wrath.
The means He will use is described here:

The Electrical Nature of the Universe:
Conventional teaching is that the sun and stars obtain their energy by nuclear reaction, that is: atoms splitting to become a less complex elements, thereby releasing energy. However there are several things about that theory that cannot be explained, such as: how can this continuing reaction be controlled, so as not to totally explode and disintegrate? Why isn’t the sun just a dead ball of helium by now, or at least showing signs of degeneration? Why do the stars have coronas – something not associated with nuclear explosions?

The fact is that the stars, including our sun consist of plasma, at least on their surface, which is a kind of fourth state of matter. On earth we are familiar with solid, liquid and gaseous forms of matter. Ice, water and steam are examples, but we witness lightning and can produce plasma effects in the laboratory, both are high energy states where electrons are so excited that they leave their atoms. Our sun is a huge ball of plasma, lacking electrons - it is actually an incredibly powerful positive charge, but free electrons are present in the solar system. This system is just like a capacitor and if anything bridges the gap between the sun and the planets, an electrical discharge can take place. Just the normal, cyclical sunspot activity does this and we have seen many Coronal Mass Ejections, that fortunately have not been large or not directed toward earth. A comet can trigger this effect, as demonstrated by comet Hale-Bopp, that caused the sun to be active for quite a while. CMEs occur when the suns magnetic field is interrupted – called a ‘Zenor breakdown’. This results in a tremendous release of energy and matter [superheated hydrogen plasma] is explosively thrown away to whatever direction the sun is facing at the time.

Our sun is at the center of a heliosphere that reaches out way beyond Pluto and earth is an integral part of the system, with its own magnetic field. Our magnetic field, the Van Allen belt, protects us from most CMEs; they just cause auroras and some radio interference. However, we have had the bad news that lately, there has been substantial reduction to; and even holes forming, in our magnetic shield.

The ancient prophet states in Isaiah 30:26-28: that on the Day that the Lord takes action in His creation, to ‘sieve the nations for destruction…the sun will shine with seven times its normal brightness’. [brightness: is better translated as ‘strength’] This perfectly clear and understandable prophecy, tells us that a CME of unprecedented magnitude, directed straight at earth, will fulfill all the graphic, detailed prophecies of how the Lord will reset our civilization – as He did once before, in the days of Noah.

References: www.electric-cosmos.org/sun.htm
 
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Vicky gould

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There are two instances of what is going to be fire from heaven. One instance will be with lying sign and wonder while the other will be done with the return of the Lord. In both cases the material that both the false fire from heaven will look like the true fire. The key is that it will look like the false fruit
 
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Erik Nelson

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(2) Mankind will not have peace until it turns with trust to My Mercy. —St. Faustina’s Diary 300

(3) Let all mankind recognize My unfathomable mercy. It is a sign for the end times; after it will come the day of justice. Diary 848

(4) He who refuses to pass through the door of My mercy must pass through the door of My justice... Diary 1146

(5) Souls perish in spite of My bitter Passion. I am giving them the last hope of salvation; that is, the Feast of My Mercy. If they will not adore My mercy, they will perish for all eternity. Diary 965​

17 Things Jesus Revealed to St. Faustina About Divine Mercy
 
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keras

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Hebrews 10:27..the terrifying judgement of a fierce fire, that will consume God’s enemies

2 Peter 3:7 By the Word of God, the present heavens and earth are being reserved for burning; they are being kept until the Day of judgement when the godless will be destroyed. Matthew 3:10-12, Isaiah 34:2-3, Revelation 6:12-17

The Apostles are telling us the next time that the Lord will judge and punish, it will be with fire. In the days of Noah, He destroyed the antediluvian civilization with water and the rainbow is His promise that He will never again flood the earth. It is frightening to think it, but there are a great many unfulfilled prophecies that describe this coming fire judgement. It will be the way that He will destroy His enemies, in the soon to happen confrontation in the Middle East and the entire world will be affected.

This terrible and shocking event, will be so severe that every person will be revealed for what they really are. This crisis will show the real nature of the worlds enmity against God. At the same time it will reveal the true condition of every Christian. 1 Corinthians 3:13 Many of us are well fed, enjoying a very comfortable lifestyle and can sing Hallelujah, Amen, with great fervour, but when the terrifying fire judgement hits the earth, will we stand firm in our trust for His protection? When electric power fails, when all telephone, radio and internet communications are gone, food supplies cut off and our modern infrastructure destroyed? Isaiah 24:10-13

Isaiah 29:13-14 Because this people worship Me with empty words and pay Me lip service while their hearts are far from Me and their religion is but a human precept, learned by rote: therefore I shall shock them, adding shock to shock, The wisdom of their wise will vanish and understanding will be lost. Matthew 11:25



A large percentage of the Bible is a message to us, today in the end times. Most of the events, such as the Exodus and the history of the Israelites are previews of what we will now and will soon experience. 1 Corinthians 10:11 We must learn from them and be prepared for huge changes. The ancients had to face it, why not us?

Although I am not a theologian, I can read plain words, words that mean things and provided you don’t ignore or allegorize what the prophets are trying to tell us, then a literal and logical understanding will enlighten us as to what will soon happen to this world.



I do not subscribe to the pretentious and impossible theory, which says that God’s people are going to be ‘raptured’ and removed from the earth before this time of trial comes. The whole message of salvation, of discipleship, and coming into the maturity of a Christian is a preparation for a time of testing. 1 Peter 4:12

1 Corinthians 10:13 So far you have faced no trial beyond human endurance. God will not test you beyond your powers, but when the test comes he will enable you to endure under it.

Luke 21:34-36 Be on your guard, keep alert, so that the great Day does not catch you unready, for that Day will come on everyone the whole world over. Pray for the strength to pass safely through all that is coming and then to stand in His presence.

Acts 14:22....that to enter the Kingdom of God, we must undergo many hardships.

Hebrews 12:7-9 You must endure God’s discipline, He is treating you like His children. .......If you avoid it, then you are illegitimate and not true children.

Ref: REB, some verses abridged
 
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