A near death experiencer describes hell???

DennisTate · Oct 1, 2019

I bring up Soul Sleep because I personally believed in this terribly flawed doctrine for about fifteen years until I read the following:

Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience

c. His Experience of the "Receiving Station"

Jesus then takes Ritchie to another realm and is shown a kind of "receiving station" where spirits would arrive in a deep hypnotic sleep because of a particular religious belief they held to be true. Here there were "angels" trying to arouse them and help them realize, "God is truly a God of the living and that they did not have to lie around sleeping until Gabriel or someone came along blowing on a horn." These are the spirits of people who believe they must sleep in their grave until the second coming of Christ (i.e., soul sleep.)

yeshuaslavejeff said:
(I don't know why you bring up souls sleep, it doesn't matter for this topic)

I'm not positive this is about what Howard Storm teaches, and can't confirm it at this time, perhaps you can ?
>>>
"Quote:

Bottom line, we are not condemned for sinning. Just ask for forgiveness. And try to learn from your mistakes so you don't make them anymore.

That sounds pretty Christian, doesn't it?
No. It really doesn't. Christianity doesn't teach that there no consequences for sin. It teaches that God became flesh, lived among us, then died on a cross to pay the penalty for our sin. It was a big consequence.

If this guy is saying that we are forgiven and we just need to "try harder" then he's teaching a false Gospel--and should not be believed."

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 1, 2019

DennisTate said:
I bring up Soul Sleep because I personally believed in this terribly flawed doctrine for about fifteen years until I read the following:

That nde is false (or if it happened, it is misleading) ....
Most thoughts about soul sleep are not in line with Scripture either, but then that is the same (most is out of line with Scripture) for more teachings today than ever before....

Shrewd Manager · Oct 2, 2019

DennisTate said:
Messiah Yeshua - Jesus warned about hell more than any other
in the Bible. Hell is real......

Hell is real, so it's a good thing that God will consume it in His holy fire in Rev 20:14. His essence of life and love also destroys sins of unbelief, cowardice, falsehood, idolatry etc.

So the sinner can be purified and emerge repentant.

DennisTate said:
but since the kingdom of Messiah will increase and increase and increase... it seems like a time is coming when something changes about hell..... but... I do believe the testimonies of people who saw hell.

God is love and light, there's no darkness in Him. He is good and good wins. Yeshua is His Salvation, the aleph and the tav. Good news for all. What more is there?

nolidad · Oct 2, 2019

DennisTate said:
But if you take the time to study some of these near death experience accounts you will find that they do fit very well with many scriptures.

I think that there is a good percentage of unconverted people who could be led to salvation partly through these testimonies.

Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience

Well I compare so many 0f these near death or death experiences where people swear they saw the Father or the Son, I compare them to Scripture of people who actually saw God or HIs backside!

Moses, Isaiah, Paul. these people saw god and it radically altered their life! MOst of these people write a book, get a few interviews and disappear from view and their lives are maybe somewhat altered! I hear many of their messages and they just don't jibe with Scripture!

nolidad · Oct 2, 2019

Shrewd Manager said:
Hell is real, so it's a good thing that God will consume it in His holy fire in Rev 20:14. His essence of life and love also destroys sins of unbelief, cowardice, falsehood, idolatry etc.

So the sinner can be purified and emerge repentant.

God is love and light, there's no darkness in Him. He is good and good wins. Yeshua is His Salvation, the aleph and the tav. Good news for all. What more is there?

biblically, hell is sheol/hades/the grave- the place where the bodies and souls of the dead go! That is destroyed in the final place of eternal torment- the lake of fire!

So you believe in a modified version of the catholic purgatory.
The sinner is purified by the blood of the Lamb! No fire or suffering or anything else. Add to that and you have corrupted the gospel.

nolidad · Oct 2, 2019

BobRyan said:
You are looking for the greek term in Luke 16 for Abraham? It's probably something like
Ἀβραάμ Abraam

Well I do know the the following;

1. no text in OT or NT says that - only this parable where we have prayers to the dead. And even it does not say "until Jesus ascended into heaven all the saved went to the compartment of hell known as Abrahams Bosom/Paradise"

2. what is more NO TEXT in OT or NT says that another name for Paradise is "Abrham's bosom"

3. There are in fact only 3 uses of the term "paradise" in all of scripture and none say they are abraham's bosom

if you read the Bible 100 times you will never find that hell has a compartment in it called "Paradise" or that Paradise is one of the compartments in hell, or that Paradise is the first compartment of hell or any such thing as that in scripture.

Now my statement is pretty well a blanket statement covering all of scripture -- so I am making it as easy as could possibly be for someone who actually has such a text to prove that I am mistaken.

And there is not text in either ther OT or NT that says that thing with four wheels and tires and body and wheels is called a car, so why do you call it that??

Luke 16:22
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

No I was not looking for Abraham in the Greek, if you read my post carefully- pray is an old English word from the greek areatoo which means to ask, beg or beseech- He was not praying to Abraham!

Hell is simply the grave! Sheol and Hades are the greek words. The righteous did not go to heaven for one simple fact- Jesus had not shed His blood! That is why in Ephesians it says when Jesus ascended he led captivity. Also in James the Spirits Jesus preached to were the righteous dead!

Most Jews, even into the intercalary period believed in the Kingdom and they would arise from Abrahams bosom to enter the physical kingdom.

There was no need for a discourse on the fact that paradise and Abrahams bosom were different or the righteous dead were in hell /the grave. It was common knowledge that all including Jesus knew. He didn't have to give the Jews a teaching on this- they already knew it! Remember Jesus first was a Jew and the Jewish Messiah. He grew up and knew that culture!

BTW I await your translation of what you say is the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

BobRyan · Oct 2, 2019

nolidad said:
Well the rich man wasn't praying to Abraham. That is an old English word!

You are looking for the greek term in Luke 16 for Abraham? It's probably something like
Ἀβραάμ Abraam

nolidad said:
Second , I guess you do not know that until Jesus ascended into heaven all the saved went to the compartment of hell known as Abrahams Bosom/Paradise.

Well I do know the following;

1. no text in OT or NT says that - only this parable where we have prayers to the dead. And even it does not say "until Jesus ascended into heaven all the saved went to the compartment of hell known as Abrahams Bosom/Paradise"

2. what is more NO TEXT in OT or NT says that another name for Paradise is "Abrham's bosom"

3. There are in fact only 3 uses of the term "paradise" in all of scripture and none say they are abraham's bosom

nolidad said:
Second , I guess you do not know that until Jesus ascended into heaven all the saved went to the compartment of hell known as Abrahams Bosom/Paradise. The other two compartments are called the place of torments and Tartarus.

if you read the Bible 100 times you will never find that hell has a compartment in it called "Paradise" or that Paradise is one of the compartments in hell, or that Paradise is the first compartment of hell or any such thing as that in scripture.

Now my statement is pretty well a blanket statement covering all of scripture -- so I am making it as easy as could possibly be for someone who actually has such a text to prove that I am mistaken.

nolidad said:
And there is not text in either ther OT or NT that says that thing with four wheels and tires and body and wheels is called a car, so why do you call it that??

I am perfectly happy admitting that the whole "car" thing is not a doctrinal statement about anything and is not a statement on theology or the afterlife. IT is a totally man-made thing.

What is your point?

Are you claiming that what I do in the case of man-made-stuff like cars... you do with religious doctrine??

BobRyan · Oct 2, 2019

nolidad said:
No I was not looking for Abraham in the Greek, if you read my post carefully- pray is an old English word from the greek areatoo which means to ask, beg or beseech- He was not praying to Abraham! .

communion with the dead - by any other name... still the same.

This is one of the reasons that R.C Sproul admitted Luke 16 is most certainly a parable.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 2, 2019

BobRyan said:
communion with the dead - by any other name... still the same.

This is one of the reasons that R.C Sproul admitted Luke 16 is most certainly a parable.

The 16 to 28 page pdf study online, by e.w.bullinger, shows with and from all Scripture without Scripture contradicting itself (as many traditions force), the truth about lazarus and the rich man. (No possibility it was what most people think it was)

DennisTate · Oct 2, 2019

nolidad said:
Well I compare so many 0f these near death or death experiences where people swear they saw the Father or the Son, I compare them to Scripture of people who actually saw God or HIs backside!

Moses, Isaiah, Paul. these people saw god and it radically altered their life! MOst of these people write a book, get a few interviews and disappear from view and their lives are maybe somewhat altered! I hear many of their messages and they just don't jibe with Scripture!

You could be correct.......
many near death experiencers go off toward what could be referred to perhaps as "Cyrus Consciousness"... which is not exactly the same thing as Billy Graham Consciousness........

The Cyrus Challenge Experiment proposed....

DennisTate · Oct 2, 2019

Shrewd Manager said:
Hell is real, so it's a good thing that God will consume it in His holy fire in Rev 20:14. His essence of life and love also destroys sins of unbelief, cowardice, falsehood, idolatry etc.

So the sinner can be purified and emerge repentant.

God is love and light, there's no darkness in Him. He is good and good wins. Yeshua is His Salvation, the aleph and the tav. Good news for all. What more is there?

TRuly well said...........
Here is a verse that over about twenty years got me quite close to the idea that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus may have plan B, Plan C, plan D and on and on and on and on until higher and higher and higher numbers of us are saved...........

My conversation with the Rabbi.....

"but the goat on which the lot fell for Aza'zel shall be presented alive before the LORD
to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness
to Aza'zel." (Leviticus 16:10)

In the Book of Enoch Azazel was king over two hundred and eight Watchers.... the same word used here:

Daniel 4:17 "This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men."

A Pastor Tom Horn can add quite a bit to this topic but... to some degree I have wondered if Azazel is the name of the metaphorical General Abner type........ or the King of Nineveh types...... who repents at the preaching of somebody like Jonah......... causes division in the kingdom of Satan........

... and causes it to fall??????

Mat 12:25

And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

Luk 11:17

But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

DennisTate · Oct 2, 2019

BobRyan said:
communion with the dead - by any other name... still the same.

This is one of the reasons that R.C Sproul admitted Luke 16 is most certainly a parable.

So... do you mean that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is NOT allowed to commune with the deceased saints?????

What about Lazarus... while he was dead for four days??????

Was Lazarus allowed to talk to the dead...... while he was dead?????

DennisTate · Oct 2, 2019

BobRyan said:
communion with the dead - by any other name... still the same.

This is one of the reasons that R.C Sproul admitted Luke 16 is most certainly a parable.

What about the souls of the saints under the throne????/

Rev 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? "

ARe YOU going to condemn the Apostle John for writing this?????

Did you know that the Romans attempted to kill John several times but he didn't die so easily?

Could John have gotten this vision one of those times while the Romans were trying to kill him?????

What about Lazarus after he came back from being dead for four days????

Was he not allowed to talk about what he may have seen or heard?????

charsan · Oct 2, 2019

DennisTate said:
Could this be accurate?????

Messiah Yeshua -Jesus did promise to......in the future.....speak plainly of the Father!

John 16:25 "These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."

It could be, not everything is going to be in the Bible. I had an NDE as a teen and it turned my life aroud

DennisTate · Oct 2, 2019

charsan said:
It could be, not everything is going to be in the Bible. I had an NDE as a teen and it turned my life aroud

EXACTLY!!!!!

Jhn 21:25

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

DennisTate · Oct 2, 2019

Two brilliant Christian authors were shown details about hell that in my opinion make their works comparable with that of C. S. Lewis.........

Anna Rountree and Rick Joyner......

After the 2:00:00 mark in this audio video is an account that sounds like a Life Review.... by somebody who had already died........ A really shy man who didn't accomplish much for Messiah Yeshua Jesus even though he was a Christian..... He reported that his Life Review..... seemed as long as his life...... and was rough.... when he realized that he had lived selfishly.........

BobRyan · Oct 2, 2019

DennisTate said:
What about the souls of the saints under the throne????/

Rev 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? "

ARe YOU going to condemn the Apostle John for writing this?????

Nope. He sees a dragon in heaven whose tail sweeps away a third of the stars... as well.

Lot's of symbolism in those apocalyptic books.

I am ok with that.

Did you know that the Romans attempted to kill John several times but he didn't die so easily?

ok - but none of that counts as NDE right?

What about Lazarus after he came back from being dead for four days????

Yep - it would be great if he had said "Hey guess what I was doing while I was dead..."

Shrewd Manager · Oct 3, 2019

nolidad said:
biblically, hell is sheol/hades/the grave- the place where the bodies and souls of the dead go! That is destroyed in the final place of eternal torment- the lake of fire!

So hell is destroyed by the power of hell? Can the devil be destroyed by the power of the devil? No he cannot. He can, however, be consumed and overcome by the heavenly powers of light and love. Why do you think he is tormented so? It's not because his tail's being singed, but due to him resisting God's grace. Good luck with that!

nolidad said:
So you believe in a modified version of the catholic purgatory.

No, it's the other way around. The Catholics had to bring in purgatory otherwise (as they rightly surmised) EVERYONE would be roasted, for everybody sins (1 Jn 1:8). It's a clawback from universal blowdown. The Greek word for 'fire' here is the same as 'pure', and the word for sulphur/ brimstone is 'theion' (same as God, theos). The lake of fire is not a literal thing, any more than death and hell are literal objects.

If you follow the fire back to its source, you'll find it comes direct in a stream from the throne.

nolidad said:
The sinner is purified by the blood of the Lamb! No fire or suffering or anything else. Add to that and you have corrupted the gospel.

Revelation: the lake of fire IS the blood of the Lamb. Life abundant. Mercy boasting over judgment. Grace abounding over sin. Evil repayed with good. Love conquers all.

I'm not seeing how the angel's gospel of glad tidings of great joy for all (Lk 2:10-11) is corrupted by a faith in the ultimate salvation of all. Maybe you can enlighten me?

Shrewd Manager · Oct 3, 2019

DennisTate said:
Here is a verse that over about twenty years got me quite close to the idea that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus may have plan B, Plan C, plan D and on and on and on and on until higher and higher and higher numbers of us are saved...........

God deals in absolutes. He made everything. He promised Abraham that all the nations of the world would be blessed. He sent Jesus to save the world. The nations will be saved (Rev 21:24-26) and enter the City for healing (Rev 22:2).

Plus God knows the end from the beginning. And it has a name, Salvation.

The pattern of history as recorded in the Bible is that evil men wax worse and worse, creation groans under the weight, people perish through lack of knowing God, leading to the abomination of desolation, then the tribulation, then repentance and redemption.

Good example I think of God's perfect forward planning is Isa 42-53, where He says to Israel, in effect 'You were my servant to be a light to the world, but you've mucked up and been broken and imprisoned, but don't worry, I've got you covered, I'll send in a second (suffering) servant to do the job, it will be great but you won't see it coming.'

DennisTate said:
"but the goat on which the lot fell for Aza'zel shall be presented alive before the LORD
to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness
to Aza'zel." (Leviticus 16:10)

The Barabbas/ goat of Azazel comparison is enlightening, thank you for sharing!

DennisTate said:
A Pastor Tom Horn can add quite a bit to this topic but... to some degree I have wondered if Azazel is the name of the metaphorical General Abner type........ or the King of Nineveh types...... who repents at the preaching of somebody like Jonah......... causes division in the kingdom of Satan........

... and causes it to fall??????

Could be, we're sent forth as sheep among wolves...with prophecy it's always hard to say! I tend to think more the devil and his minions will get something reflecting the following:

He who digs a pit will fall into it, And he who rolls a stone, it will come back on him. (Pro 26:27)

Because God's has made things with His divine poetic justice and for rejoicing in the life of the spirit.

nolidad · Oct 3, 2019

DennisTate said:
But if you take the time to study some of these near death experience accounts you will find that they do fit very well with many scriptures.

I think that there is a good percentage of unconverted people who could be led to salvation partly through these testimonies.

Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience

I do not have the time to read all teh death/near death experiences, so I don't know. The ones I have read or seen on TV all have been very unbiblical and the lives of the people are not consistent with those in Scripture who say God!

As for converting people, God uses all tools, as long as the gospel is part of that tool. Without trusting in the death, burial and physical resurrection of Jesus- no one is saved!

A near death experiencer describes hell???

Newbie

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Junior Member

Junior Member

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

Charismatic Episcopal Church

Newbie

Newbie

Junior Member

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

Well-Known Member

Similar threads