Is God really Omnipotent?

Davidz777

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When I read the OT, I see much as not something a theoretical omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence god might do. For instance god apparently used angels and others to do much while if he could do anything, he would never need to. Likewise in Genesis he could have created the universe in an instant but even there it becomes an elaborate process. Or have removed the whole human race except Noah and family versus the elaborate flood explanation that reflects something primitive people would conjure up and in this science era reads as nonsense. The 3 OOO's in any case arguably lack logic that has endlessly been debated elsewhere. I don't have any issue believing god to be a vastly intelligent entity with limitations, especially if he is moral and offers us eternal life.

Under "Attributes and nature" the God_in_Christianity wikipedia page, it shows the omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence were among other attributes of god that were gradually folded into Christian religious dogma over centuries and are not something explicitly stated in the Bible unless one exaggerates the scope of terms used. Certainly was not something Jesus spoke about, an indication it was not a matter of importance beyond understanding God has great powers. I likewise view predestination, being eternal, or in some other plane of existence, and impossible miracles as also illogical. I'm fine with believing in a power, knowledge, and location limited, loving God and that still fits everything in the OT and NT including what Jesus said as long as one discards the many denomination varying and inconsistent interpretations in scripture. Of course just consider what Jesus felt about centuries of Levite priestly sect laws after Moses's time that God apparently didn't bother to correct. So just because many human philosophers and scholars create ideas does not mean they are valid even if they've existed as dogma for millennia.
 
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redleghunter

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When I read the OT, I see much as not something a theoretical omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence god might do. For instance god apparently used angels and others to do much while if he could do anything, he would never need to. Likewise in Genesis he could have created the universe in an instant but even there it becomes an elaborate process. Or have removed the whole human race except Noah and family versus the elaborate flood explanation that reflects something primitive people would conjure up and in this science era reads as nonsense. The 3 OOO's in any case arguably lack logic that has endlessly been debated elsewhere. I don't have any issue believing god to be a vastly intelligent entity with limitations, especially if he is moral and offers us eternal life.

Under "Attributes and nature" the God_in_Christianity wikipedia page, it shows the omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence were among other attributes of god that were gradually folded into Christian religious dogma over centuries and are not something explicitly stated in the Bible unless one exaggerates the scope of terms used. Certainly was not something Jesus spoke about, an indication it was not a matter of importance beyond understanding God has great powers. I likewise view predestination, being eternal, or in some other plane of existence, and impossible miracles as also illogical. I'm fine with believing in a power, knowledge, and location limited, loving God and that still fits everything in the OT and NT including what Jesus said as long as one discards the many denomination varying and inconsistent interpretations in scripture. Of course just consider what Jesus felt about centuries of Levite priestly sect laws after Moses's time that God apparently didn't bother to correct. So just because many human philosophers and scholars create ideas does not mean they are valid even if they've existed as dogma for millennia.
What does your Catechism say? You show Catholic.

How do you think those theologians cane to their conclusions? Sacred Scriptures.

If you want Biblical evidence of OOO then read Isaiah chapters 40-66. All of it.
 
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marineimaging

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I've started to realize that God may not be fully omnipotent. For instance he doesn't make the world a perfect place, but heaven he does? He doesn't answer all prayers? So is he omnipotent?

Can you prove that He is omnipotent?
Hebrew phrase, 'ehyeh 'ăšer 'ehyeh - "I am who I am" or "I will be what I will be" or even "I create what I create. English translation, "I am that I am." I sincerely do not understand why it is hard to accept, and is fully sufficient for the soul and all that we need to carry to the grave, that our God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, and all powerful. Since I do not propose to spend my short life on earth delving into thousands of years of biblical history I rely on those who have made it their life purpose. I have conversed with many, heard many, and contemplated what many scholars have said. The ones who walk in the same forest I do and talk the same language I do all agree. God, our Heavenly Father is omnipotent from ever to ever, without end. Using that as a basis for my belief I find that everything in the King James Version of the Bible fits neatly. No, it is man and nature that are limited and broken and what we are supposed to recognize as we bow a knee before the King of all kings? Are we not supposed to admit our sins, and give ourselves over to His son? I would not worry about the dinosaurs and galaxies and their pitiful life and death. We will all die when it is our time. It is what we do with our life that matters.
 
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devin553344

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Hebrew phrase, 'ehyeh 'ăšer 'ehyeh - "I am who I am" or "I will be what I will be" or even "I create what I create. English translation, "I am that I am." I sincerely do not understand why it is hard to accept, and is fully sufficient for the soul and all that we need to carry to the grave, that our God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, and all powerful. Since I do not propose to spend my short life on earth delving into thousands of years of biblical history I rely on those who have made it their life purpose. I have conversed with many, heard many, and contemplated what many scholars have said. The ones who walk in the same forest I do and talk the same language I do all agree. God, our Heavenly Father is omnipotent from ever to ever, without end. Using that as a basis for my belief I find that everything in the King James Version of the Bible fits neatly. No, it is man and nature that are limited and broken and what we are supposed to recognize as we bow a knee before the King of all kings? Are we not supposed to admit our sins, and give ourselves over to His son? I would not worry about the dinosaurs and galaxies and their pitiful life and death. We will all die when it is our time. It is what we do with our life that matters.

Thanks, I'm still unsure if God is omnipotent, but I'm open to the idea :)
 
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redleghunter

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Hebrew phrase, 'ehyeh 'ăšer 'ehyeh - "I am who I am" or "I will be what I will be" or even "I create what I create. English translation, "I am that I am." I sincerely do not understand why it is hard to accept, and is fully sufficient for the soul and all that we need to carry to the grave, that our God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, and all powerful. Since I do not propose to spend my short life on earth delving into thousands of years of biblical history I rely on those who have made it their life purpose. I have conversed with many, heard many, and contemplated what many scholars have said. The ones who walk in the same forest I do and talk the same language I do all agree. God, our Heavenly Father is omnipotent from ever to ever, without end. Using that as a basis for my belief I find that everything in the King James Version of the Bible fits neatly. No, it is man and nature that are limited and broken and what we are supposed to recognize as we bow a knee before the King of all kings? Are we not supposed to admit our sins, and give ourselves over to His son? I would not worry about the dinosaurs and galaxies and their pitiful life and death. We will all die when it is our time. It is what we do with our life that matters.
Well said brother.
 
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redleghunter

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Thanks, I'm still unsure if God is omnipotent, but I'm open to the idea :)
Understand you are searching. But whatever conclusion you come to will not change God is truly omnipotent. I mean God is the uncreated Creator Who exists out of space and time.

As I offered the OP. Read Isaiah 40-66 or all of it for that matter. God truly reveals His Divine attributes in the book of Isaiah. Totally blows you away.
 
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BobRyan

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I've started to realize that God may not be fully omnipotent. For instance he doesn't make the world a perfect place, but heaven he does? He doesn't answer all prayers? So is he omnipotent?

Can you prove that He is omnipotent?

He makes the entire universe from nothing -- omnipotent, omniscient
He makes the earth perfect and sinless ... paradise - so he is all powerful, kind and loving
He gives his creation free will -- so he is loving and kind
He is not a jin or a Genie in a bottle so not trapped into giving those in rebellion against Him -- instant answers
 
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Davidz777

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I'm not going to read all of Isaiah 40>65 today but did Google search "Isaiah omni" and re-read verses I've read in the past. My point above is there is a logical difference between what are obviously immense powers beyond anything we humans can imagine is possible and stretching that to cover the three OOO's infinite terms that philosophers created. And I also disagree that it matters one way or the other if limitations exist. Not something I am going to dig up scriptures for evidence on or continue to argue about at length. There is much we cannot know with certainty and rather need to have faith about while that obviously scares religious authorities, something that really blew up during the reformation era. Of course unlike many on this board I'm not one that takes the Bible literally or believes it inerrant or infallible. In other words I have an open mind seeking truth and tend to understand issues relatively instead of black and white beliefs.
 
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BobRyan

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I'm not going to read all of Isaiah 40>65 today but did Google search "Isaiah omni" and re-read verses I've read in the past. My point above is there is a logical difference between what are obviously immense powers beyond anything we humans can imagine is possible and stretching that to cover the three OOO's infinite terms that philosophers created. And I also disagree that it matters one way or the other if limitations exist. Not something I am going to dig up scriptures for evidence on or continue to argue about at length. There is much we cannot know with certainty and rather need to have faith about while that obviously scares religious authorities, something that really blew up during the reformation era. Of course unlike many on this board I'm not one that takes the Bible literally or believes it inerrant or infallible. In other words I have an open mind seeking truth and tend to understand issues relatively instead of black and white beliefs.

Unlike that I am one who accepts the Bible as the Word of God - just as Christ declared it to be in Mark 7:6-13. When dealing with the Creator of heaven and earth - and then trying to shoe-horn him into the finite tiny mind of a single human who sets himself to outguess God - I choose to go with God.

If you have a man ten times the intellect of Einstein to follow in a physics test - vs - "a guy who slept at a Holiday Inn and loves to claim the first guy aitn-all-that-smart" --- which one would you choose?

Same here!!
 
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Jipsah

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Yeah but to create the galaxy one only needs to create an explosive weapon powerful enough that it would create a galaxy.
I don't think setting off a firecracker results in the creation of a galaxy no matter how big it is. I think the process is a bit more involved.

We as humans have created nuclear weapons that demonstrate similar effects.
Well no, not really. Just louder bombs, is all.

And we are not omnipotent.
Not even showing any symptoms.

Does God really sustain the galaxy, allowing comets and asteroids to destroy it? Allowing super novas to destroy solar systems?
I 'spect He has it all under control.
 
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Jipsah

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Agreed. But notice that same "solution" is tried in each of the post-response sequences... simply "ignore the texts that refute Calvinism - and post something else"
Funny, I find that to be true of Sabbatarians, as well. "No, that's not what it really means..." is their favorite rejoinder.
 
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Jipsah

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Well I believe that God is omnipotent but my question is ... is Christ at this time?
Matt.28 Verses 18 to 20
[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:[20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
 
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BobRyan

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I am ignoring it because it is downplayed, mocked, and laughed at. I won't respond to people who treat these doctrines like that.

Not veryone agrees with a certain doctrine on any given subject - but still serious questions should be addressed.
 
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BobRyan

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Oh my! Calvinism never ends.

Agreed. But notice that same "solution" is tried in each of the post-response sequences... simply "ignore the texts that refute Calvinism - and post something else"

Funny, I find that to be true of Sabbatarians, as well. "No, that's not what it really means..." is their favorite rejoinder.

"No that's not what the text means" was not in my post above.

I have no doubt that some folks do promote the wrong meaning of a given text.. but that is not the point I make in my post.
 
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I've started to realize that God may not be fully omnipotent.
Then you are on a very dangerous path, which only leads to destruction.

For instance he doesn't make the world a perfect place
Wait for it. Be patient. It's coming. Just remember it started out perfect, and it was mankind who brought the ruin by listening to the devil.

, but heaven he does?
There was war even in Heaven, and sin, which Lucifer brought about. So, even there, was suffering. Yet, this was the reason why God created mankind, to fix all things.

He doesn't answer all prayers?
What do you mean?

So is he omnipotent?
I believe Jesus:

Mat_28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

"All power" = omni potent.

Again:

Mat_19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Mar_9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Mar_10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
Mar_14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

Jer_32:17 Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:

Ecc_8:4 Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou?

Job_37:23 Touching the Almighty, we cannot find him out: he is excellent in power, and in judgment, and in plenty of justice: he will not afflict.

Psa_62:11 God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto God.

Psa_66:7 He ruleth by his power for ever; his eyes behold the nations: let not the rebellious exalt themselves. Selah.

Psa_147:5 Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

Can you prove that He is omnipotent?
I do not have to, since His word speaks for Him. If you do not believe His word, why would you believe anything I say or do?
 
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