Who gets cast into the everlasting lake of fire?

Bible Highlighter said:

Also read Romans 2:25. It is referring to circumcision. This was a part of the Old Law and not the New Law.

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I think you're throwing out perfectly applicable scripture that I already provided. But more to the point, how will you be saved? Thru grace or works? What do you proclaim?

devin553344 said:

I think you're throwing out perfectly applicable scripture that I already provided. But more to the point, how will you be saved? Thru grace or works? What do you proclaim?

Click to expand...

The reason why I'm pointing this out, it because if our works are required for salvation but faith and Grace will be the salvation truely, then how do you know you're sinning any less than the next sinner. The list of sins is quite large in the NT, and I doubt anyone could follow that in a holy manner as Jesus commands.

And that was the point of the scripture that I pointed out.

Romans 2:17-24

17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

I will try to expound what my doctrine is, it is certainly not hyper grace, or sin as much as you like continually without repentance and God will forgive you.

I believe:

1) We are saved by the work that Jesus performed on the cross, as we see from all of scripture, this was a sin offering. It covers our sin.

Rom 4:2-8 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

Note Paul used Abraham as the example describing faith, not by works, but by belief/faith. Abraham did not even have the law. So we see that works refers to a general working of effort towards salvation, not trusting in God to justify us.

2) When we are saved we receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit or the seed of God, causes us to move away from sin. As the bible says He the Holy Spirit "will convict the world of sin", and "he (us) can not sin for the seed of God remains in him (us)". This is not to say it is impossible for a Christian to sin, no rather it involves pushing away the drawing of the Holy Spirit to do so. That is why there are verses in the bible that say "if we sin we have an advocate with the father Jesus the righteous", "if we confess our sin he is faithful and just to forgive us, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness".

3) Whether we ultimately make it to heaven is determined by the way we live our lives. It is possible for a believer to loose their salvation. As the bible says "we should fear, for if God did not spare the natural branches, he may not spare us either (if we sin)".

4) From this I say, a Christian will be led by the Holy Spirit to not sin. The bible tells us that "the one who sins (habitually) has not known God". To know God is to move away from sin.

5) However we will never be justified by our works, we all have some sin. Jesus is the only one who lived his life sinless. However this is not an excuse for sloppy living, we can't just run off and commit adultery, ignore our children, or have no care for the people around us. But,

David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

devin553344 said:

I think you're throwing out perfectly applicable scripture that I already provided. But more to the point, how will you be saved? Thru grace or works? What do you proclaim?

Click to expand...

We are saved by God's grace through faith (Justification) and Sanctification by the Spirit (holy living) that follows.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 says,
"God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"

So you need a belief in the truth, and Sanctification as a part of salvation according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Romans 8:13 also says, "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

As for Romans 8:17-24:

Again, nowhere does the passage say you cannot keep the Law. That is purely your imagining that the passage does not say. It is referring to the Old Law (or the OT Law of Moses - the 613 laws given to Israel) because it is talking about circumcision. The passage is also referring to hypocrisy, as well.

Romans 2:1-2 says,

1 "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things." (Romans 2:1-2).

A similar thing is said in the passage you quote:

21 "thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?" (Romans 2:21-22).

In other words, you are not only not reading the passage correctly, but you are also not reading the context.

devin553344 said:

The reason why I'm pointing this out, it because if our works are required for salvation but faith and Grace will be the salvation truely, then how do you know you're sinning any less than the next sinner. The list of sins is quite large in the NT, and I doubt anyone could follow that in a holy manner as Jesus commands.

Click to expand...

Our faith rests in what God's Word says, and not in our feelings or what we think is possible or not possible. Jesus says with God, all things are possible.

2 Corinthians 7:1 says,


Do you believe that verse, or do you feel that you need to change the plain meaning of this verse so as to fit your belief?

As for whether or not we know we are know we are sinning:

Well, according to John 16:8-9: the Spirit will reprove (convict) the world of it's sin. So if the Spirit does this for the people of the world, how much more do you think the Spirit will do for those who are seeking to be faithful to the Lord?

You said:

And that was the point of the scripture that I pointed out.

Romans 2:17-24

17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

Click to expand...

Offering no commentary to the passage does not prove that what you said by it is true. Nowhere do I see anything in this passage about how you cannot keep God's laws under the New Covenant. But this passage is not talking about New Covenant Law. That is what you do not understand. it is referring to OT Law.

FutureAndAHope said:

I will try to expound what my doctrine is, it is certainly not hyper grace, or sin as much as you like continually without repentance and God will forgive you.

I believe:

1) We are saved by the work that Jesus performed on the cross, as we see from all of scripture, this was a sin offering. It covers our sin.

Rom 4:2-8 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

Note Paul used Abraham as the example describing faith, not by works, but by belief/faith. Abraham did not even have the law. So we see that works refers to a general working of effort towards salvation, not trusting in God to justify us.

2) When we are saved we receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit or the seed of God, causes us to move away from sin. As the bible says He the Holy Spirit "will convict the world of sin", and "he (us) can not sin for the seed of God remains in him (us)". This is not to say it is impossible for a Christian to sin, no rather it involves pushing away the drawing of the Holy Spirit to do so. That is why there are verses in the bible that say "if we sin we have an advocate with the father Jesus the righteous", "if we confess our sin he is faithful and just to forgive us, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness".

3) Whether we ultimately make it to heaven is determined by the way we live our lives. It is possible for a believer to loose their salvation. As the bible says "we should fear, for if God did not spare the natural branches, he may not spare us either (if we sin)".

4) From this I say, a Christian will be led by the Holy Spirit to not sin. The bible tells us that "the one who sins (habitually) has not known God". To know God is to move away from sin.

5) However we will never be justified by our works, we all have some sin. Jesus is the only one who lived his life sinless. However this is not an excuse for sloppy living, we can't just run off and commit adultery, ignore our children, or have no care for the people around us. But,

David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

Click to expand...

Sorry, we are not forced to be slaves to God after we made a one time decision for the Lord Jesus Christ.


Endure temptation suggests something that one has to do and it is not because they have been preprogrammed to do so automatically.


Why do we told to be faithful unto death to receive the crown of life if it is something that is automatic to true believers?


How can names be blotted of the book of life? What do you think causes names to be blotted out of the book of life?


Why are we told to keep ourselves in the love of God if we are automatically kept in God's love by some automatic means?

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

Again, why are we told to continue in God's grace, continue in the faith, and continue in God's goodness if these things were automatic to all true born again regenerated believers? I do not get the impression that we are love robots after we are saved. We have to choose this day (every day) in whom we will serve.

FutureAndAHope said:

I will try to expound what my doctrine is, it is certainly not hyper grace, or sin as much as you like continually without repentance and God will forgive you.

I believe:

1) We are saved by the work that Jesus performed on the cross, as we see from all of scripture, this was a sin offering. It covers our sin.

Rom 4:2-8 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

Note Paul used Abraham as the example describing faith, not by works, but by belief/faith. Abraham did not even have the law. So we see that works refers to a general working of effort towards salvation, not trusting in God to justify us.

2) When we are saved we receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit or the seed of God, causes us to move away from sin. As the bible says He the Holy Spirit "will convict the world of sin", and "he (us) can not sin for the seed of God remains in him (us)". This is not to say it is impossible for a Christian to sin, no rather it involves pushing away the drawing of the Holy Spirit to do so. That is why there are verses in the bible that say "if we sin we have an advocate with the father Jesus the righteous", "if we confess our sin he is faithful and just to forgive us, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness".

3) Whether we ultimately make it to heaven is determined by the way we live our lives. It is possible for a believer to loose their salvation. As the bible says "we should fear, for if God did not spare the natural branches, he may not spare us either (if we sin)".

4) From this I say, a Christian will be led by the Holy Spirit to not sin. The bible tells us that "the one who sins (habitually) has not known God". To know God is to move away from sin.

5) However we will never be justified by our works, we all have some sin. Jesus is the only one who lived his life sinless. However this is not an excuse for sloppy living, we can't just run off and commit adultery, ignore our children, or have no care for the people around us. But,

David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

Click to expand...

1 John 3:6, and 1 John 3:9 is not talking about habitual sin. 1 John 3:15 says that if we hate our brother, we are like a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

#1. Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes on act of murder to be a murderer.

#2. Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes on act of adultery to be an adulterer.

#3. Jesus Himself regarded just looking at woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).

#4. Proverbs 6:32 says "Whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."

In other words, it takes only one grievous sin to be separate a person from God and for them to lose their salvation. What do you think happened in the Garden of Eden? It only took one sin (by Adam) to cause a separation between God and man (Whereby the whole entire race would need a Savior).

FutureAndAHope said:

I will try to expound what my doctrine is, it is certainly not hyper grace, or sin as much as you like continually without repentance and God will forgive you.

I believe:

1) We are saved by the work that Jesus performed on the cross, as we see from all of scripture, this was a sin offering. It covers our sin.

Rom 4:2-8 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

Note Paul used Abraham as the example describing faith, not by works, but by belief/faith. Abraham did not even have the law. So we see that works refers to a general working of effort towards salvation, not trusting in God to justify us.

2) When we are saved we receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit or the seed of God, causes us to move away from sin. As the bible says He the Holy Spirit "will convict the world of sin", and "he (us) can not sin for the seed of God remains in him (us)". This is not to say it is impossible for a Christian to sin, no rather it involves pushing away the drawing of the Holy Spirit to do so. That is why there are verses in the bible that say "if we sin we have an advocate with the father Jesus the righteous", "if we confess our sin he is faithful and just to forgive us, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness".

3) Whether we ultimately make it to heaven is determined by the way we live our lives. It is possible for a believer to loose their salvation. As the bible says "we should fear, for if God did not spare the natural branches, he may not spare us either (if we sin)".

4) From this I say, a Christian will be led by the Holy Spirit to not sin. The bible tells us that "the one who sins (habitually) has not known God". To know God is to move away from sin.

5) However we will never be justified by our works, we all have some sin. Jesus is the only one who lived his life sinless. However this is not an excuse for sloppy living, we can't just run off and commit adultery, ignore our children, or have no care for the people around us. But,

David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

Click to expand...

Also, if Hyper Grace (sin as much as you want is not true), then Belief Alone in Jesus for salvation cannot be true because to sin and still be saved would be the name of the game in Belief Alone-ism. Nothing would be needed but a belief to be saved. So no sin could separate a believer from God. They can sin and still be saved. Many in the Belief Alone camp will make it worse for themselves and say that future sin is forgiven them. But if this is true, then why confess of sin to be forgiven of sin according to 1 John 1:9?

Also, if Hyper Grace or Antinomianism offends you, then how does your view of the saint today in living holy compare to those who are Antinomian? What is the difference morally speaking?

What if your telling others that you are saved by a belief alone on Jesus leads them to treat God's grace as a license to sin because you did not get a chance to tell them that they must live holy as a part of a true saving faith?

Bible Highlighter said:

We are saved by God's grace through faith (Justification) and Sanctification by the Spirit (holy living) that follows.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 says,
"God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"

So you need a belief in the truth, and Sanctification as a part of salvation according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Romans 8:13 also says, "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

As for Romans 8:17-24:

Again, nowhere does the passage say you cannot keep the Law. That is purely your imagining that the passage does not say. It is referring to the Old Law (or the OT Law of Moses - the 613 laws given to Israel) because it is talking about circumcision. The passage is also referring to hypocrisy, as well.

Romans 2:1-2 says,

1 "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things." (Romans 2:1-2).

A similar thing is said in the passage you quote:

21 "thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?" (Romans 2:21-22).

In other words, you are not only not reading the passage correctly, but you are also not reading the context.

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Sure but you're position is warning others of the lake of fire from sin. And you feel your sanctified? And others are sinners?

Bible Highlighter said:

1 John 3:6, and 1 John 3:9 is not talking about habitual sin. 1 John 3:15 says that if we hate our brother, we are like a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

#1. Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes on act of murder to be a murderer.

#2. Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes on act of adultery to be an adulterer.

#3. Jesus Himself regarded just looking at woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).

#4. Proverbs 6:32 says "Whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."

In other words, it takes only one grievous sin to be separate a person from God and for them to lose their salvation. What do you think happened in the Garden of Eden? It only took one sin (by Adam) to cause a separation between God and man (Whereby the whole entire race would need a Savior).

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No in this you are not correct. One sin does not separate a Christian from God. God gives every person, the believer included TIME to repent from their sins. The fact is that sin has a hardening effect.

Heb 3:12-13 Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

This hardening effect effects a person in the following way. If a person sins, they begin to have doubts, around their security, it gives the devil access to condemn. The person will feel terrible, they will have guilt. If this guilt is not addressed though eventual repentance, the person will begin to feel un-forgiven, and may walk themselves away from faith, never to return. But if at any time the person repents (and turns from the sin) God will forgive them.

Job 36:9-12 then he declares to them their work and their transgressions, that they are behaving arrogantly. He opens their ears to instruction and commands that they return from iniquity. If they listen and serve him, they complete their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasantness. But if they do not listen, they perish by the sword and die without knowledge.

Notice that if the person does not repent, they will die "without knowledge", this knowledge if the knowledge of salvation, or faith in God.

2Th 2:10-12 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

God allows certain people to be deluded, to no longer believe the truth. But notice He uses the word "BELIEVE what is false".

Every Christian is saved by faith, in the finished work of the cross, but if they persist in sin Jesus "spews them out of his mouth".

So we must live soberly, even though we are saved by faith.

Your doctrine is a wrong one, one sin does not kill a believer and send them to hell. Persistent sin, leading to death, does.

Bible Highlighter said:

Our faith rests in what God's Word says, and not in our feelings or what we think is possible or not possible. Jesus says with God, all things are possible.

2 Corinthians 7:1 says,

"...let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."​

Do you believe that verse, or do you feel that you need to change the plain meaning of this verse so as to fit your belief?

As for whether or not we know we are know we are sinning:

Well, according to John 16:8-9: the Spirit will reprove (convict) the world of it's sin. So if the Spirit does this for the people of the world, how much more do you think the Spirit will do for those who are seeking to be faithful to the Lord?



Offering no commentary to the passage does not prove that what you said by it is true. Nowhere do I see anything in this passage about how you cannot keep God's laws under the New Covenant. But this passage is not talking about New Covenant Law. That is what you do not understand. it is referring to OT Law.

Click to expand...

So you feel your saved, while you warn others they are not? You don't see anything strange about that? And you're sure of your salvation?

devin553344 said:

So you feel your saved, while you warn others they are not? You don't see anything strange about that? And you're sure of your salvation?

Click to expand...

This thread is not about me. It is about what the Bible says. Besides, the Bible is the standard of living and my life is not the standard. The Bible is true regardless of what men do in this life. Anyways, please address the points I made with Scripture.

Bible Highlighter said:

Also, if Hyper Grace or Antinomianism offends you, then how does your view of the saint today in living holy compare to those who are Antinomian? What is the difference morally speaking?

What if your telling others that you are saved by a belief alone on Jesus leads them to treat God's grace as a license to sin because you did not get a chance to tell them that they must live holy as a part of a true saving faith?

Click to expand...

As the bible says there will be people who:

Jud 1:4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

The fact that certain people do not obey the truth is not based upon the message, but rather their own hearts.

Jer 7:24 But they did not obey or incline their ear, but walked in their own counsels and the stubbornness of their evil hearts, and went backward and not forward.

The truth is that a true believer has God's Holy Spirit, and KNOWS instinctively not to sin. They don't need some one to teach them.

Heb 8:10-12 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.”

The problem with your doctrine is you are preventing people who stumble for continuing in the faith, due to your unrighteous view that one sin can eternally separate a Christian from God.

Bible Highlighter said:

This thread is not about me. It is about what the Bible says. Besides, the Bible is the standard of living and my life is not the standard. The Bible is true regardless of what men do in this life. Anyways, please address the points I made with Scripture.

Click to expand...

OK not about you, lets discuss each others beliefs then, unless you don't want to defend your position... You agree with the op, that sinners go to the lake of fire. At least that's what I got from your posts. But you have failed to address all of my important questions. I'm trying to figure out what kind of belief system proclaims that sinners go to the lake of fire seeing that we all are sinners.

Then what I have to take away from that is that we all go to the lake of fire. At least that's what your proclaiming in my opinion.

But you also said we are saved by grace so that God is the judge.

What I'm trying to figure out is why you feel its important to tell sinners they're headed for the lake of fire. Aren't we all without grace and Gods judgement.

Or do you feel you could be justified thru works?

FutureAndAHope said:

No in this you are not correct. One sin does not separate a Christian from God. God gives every person, the believer included TIME to repent from their sins. The fact is that sin has a hardening effect.

Heb 3:12-13 Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

This hardening effect effects a person in the following way. If a person sins, they begin to have doubts, around their security, it gives the devil access to condemn. The person will feel terrible, they will have guilt. If this guilt is not addressed though eventual repentance, the person will begin to feel un-forgiven, and may walk themselves away from faith, never to return. But if at any time the person repents (and turns from the sin) God will forgive them.

Job 36:9-12 then he declares to them their work and their transgressions, that they are behaving arrogantly. He opens their ears to instruction and commands that they return from iniquity. If they listen and serve him, they complete their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasantness. But if they do not listen, they perish by the sword and die without knowledge.

Notice that if the person does not repent, they will die "without knowledge", this knowledge if the knowledge of salvation, or faith in God.

2Th 2:10-12 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

God allows certain people to be deluded, to no longer believe the truth. But notice He uses the word "BELIEVE what is false".

Every Christian is saved by faith, in the finished work of the cross, but if they persist in sin Jesus "spews them out of his mouth".

So we must live soberly, even though we are saved by faith.

Your doctrine is a wrong one, one sin does not kill a believer and send them to hell. Persistent sin, leading to death, does.

Click to expand...

No. Hebrews 3:12-13 is talking about having a hard heart (via by sin) whereby they would depart from the living God. Meaning, they would apostatize or reject Christ in some way.

Anyways, the Bible clearly teaches that it only takes one sin to die spiritually.


All liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. Not just some. If one lies just once, they are a liar (unless they seek forgiveness of such a sin with Jesus).


No murderer has eternal life abiding in him. Meaning any murderer. For how many murders does it take for a person to be a murderer?

Then there is Ananias and Sapphira. They lied to the Holy Ghost and were instantly killed. They each lied (Which is a one time sin for each of them). When the church heard about this, a great fear came upon them. Now, if they were never saved to begin with, the emotion of fear would not make any sense because why be afraid for those who are unbelievers who deserve what they get for living sinful and unbelieving lives? If Ananias and Sapphira were saved believers: It still does not make sense that the church would experience the emotion of fear. Why would they fear if they are safely in the arms of Jesus? Is not to live is Christ and to die is gain? The only reason why the emotion of fear makes sense for the church over their deaths is if the something similar could happen to them, too.

Bible Highlighter said:

This thread is not about me. It is about what the Bible says. Besides, the Bible is the standard of living and my life is not the standard. The Bible is true regardless of what men do in this life. Anyways, please address the points I made with Scripture.

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The point I'm getting at, which is really about all of us. Is that if we are saved by grace and sanctified by works thru the holy spirit. How do we know who God will judge saved by grace and and how do we know who's works he will accept? After all I'm sure you don't say that you are the judge of people. Do you?

So then who are we warning about going to the lake of fire for sinning? Who is that?

devin553344 said:

OK not about you, lets discuss each others beliefs then... You agree with the op, that sinners go to the lake of fire. At least that's what I got from your posts. But you have failed to address all of my important questions. I'm trying to figure out what kind of belief system proclaims that sinners go to the lake of fire seeing that we all are sinners.

Then what I have to take away from that is that we all go to the lake of fire. At least that's what your proclaiming in my opinion.

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You are falsely assuming that all believers live in sin when this is not the case.
The 144,000 are found without fault before the throne of God (and this is context to their behavior) (See: Revelation 14:3-5). Zacharias and Elisabeth were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless (Luke 1:5-6).

We are told to cleanse ourselves from ALL (not some) filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God in 2 Corinthians 7:1. How can you do this if you believe as you do? You simply can't.

You said:

But you also said we are saved by grace so that God is the judge.

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But God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (See: Titus 2:11-12). Somehow you don't think this is possible. What do you think Titus 2:11-12 says?

What I'm trying to figure out is why you feel its important to tell sinners they're headed for the lake of fire. Aren't we all without grace and Gods judgement.

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Well, things are not as we prefer them to be. Again, the true imputation of Christ's sacrifice is applied if we walk in the light as Christ is in the light.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

You said:

Or do you feel you could be justified thru works?

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It's a justification in God's grace through faith that is then followed by Sanctification by the Spirit (Which is a justification by works of faith). We are saved both in Justification in God's grace and Sanctification. Please read 2 Thessalonians 2:13 very slowly.

As for justification by works:

James says,

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
(James 2:24).

In short, James says we are justified by works and not by faith alone.

devin553344 said:

The point I'm getting at, which is really about all of us. Is that if we are saved by grace and sanctified by works thru the holy spirit. How do we know who God will judge saved by grace and and how do we know who's works he will accept? After all I'm sure you don't say that you are the judge of people. Do you?

So then who are we warning about going to the lake of fire for sinning? Who is that?

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Any believer who justifies sin is not going to make it. God is holy and He cannot agree with a person's thinking that they can sin and be in His good graces.