where is the limit judging other?

Halbhh said:

You gotta listen for yourself. Blessings.

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We are listening.....

Halbhh said:

While we could get the situation that makes verse 24 clear from verse 23, best for us is to read the full passage, from verse 1 through 24. With verses 1 and 23 though, we do see what He is addressing here in 24 clearly.

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1After these things Jesus was walking in Galilee, for He was unwilling to walk in Judea because the Jews were seeking to kill Him. 2Now the feast of the Jews, the Feast of Booths, was near. 3Therefore His brothers said to Him, “Leave here and go into Judea, so that Your disciples also may see Your works which You are doing. 4“For no one does anything in secret when he himself seeks to be known publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world.” 5For not even His brothers were believing in Him. 6So Jesus said to them, “My time is not yet here, but your time is always opportune. 7“The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil. 8“Go up to the feast yourselves; I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come.” 9Having said these things to them, He stayed in Galilee.

10But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as if, in secret. 11So the Jews were seeking Him at the feast and were saying, “Where is He?” 12There was much grumbling among the crowds concerning Him; some were saying, “He is a good man”; others were saying, “No, on the contrary, He leads the people astray.” 13Yet no one was speaking openly of Him for fear of the Jews.

14But when it was now the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and began to teach. 15The Jews then were astonished, saying, “How has this man become learned, having never been educated?” 16So Jesus answered them and said, “My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me. 17“If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself. 18“He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

19“Did not Moses give you the Law, and yet none of you carries out the Law? Why do you seek to kill Me?” 20The crowd answered, “You have a demon! Who seeks to kill You?” 21Jesus answered them, “I did one deed, and you all marvel. 22“For this reason Moses has given you circumcision (not because it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and on the Sabbath you circumcise a man. 23“If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses will not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made an entire man well on the Sabbath? 24“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”


In this case it means that the laws of religion fail compared to the actions of God and his mercy. It is similar to the normal usage of treating all people fairly regardless of station.


2 Thessalonians 1:5
Romans 2:5
John 7:24
Romans 1:32
Deuteronomy 16:18
Psalm 9:4
Psalm 119:160
Zechariah 8:16
2 Peter 2:5

When we judge others we should never be surprised when those others judge us.

lambofgod43985889 said:

to say the truth about something bad is not to judge.
million examples

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If we judge someone fairly, it seems okay.

This means carefully considering the person's situation / circumstances in life. "Putting yourself in their shoes" so to speak. Trying your best to understand what they're going through.

And then you can make a fair assessment.

"So his fellow servant fell down and begged him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you back.’ But he refused. Instead, he went and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay his debt. When his fellow servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed, and they went and recounted all of this to their master. Then the master summoned him and declared, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave all your debt because you begged me. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had on you?’ In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed. That is how My Heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.” (Matthew 18:29-35).

"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you" (Matthew 7:2 NIV).

Having been forgiven an enormous debt, I personally do not want to face the wrath of God for harbouring an attitude of judgement and unforgiveness towards others. My advice is that if anyone takes it upon themselves to judge others, they should tread extremely carefully.

JackRT said:

When we judge others we should never be surprised when those others judge us.

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When I'm judged, I go like this

lambofgod43985889 said:

to say the truth about something bad is not to judge.
million examples

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John 7:24 teaches us to judge with righteous judgment. That means we have to judge against the light of scripture. So when we see someone committing adultery we are free to judge them against the light of scripture, for they obviously are committing a sin.

We do need to be careful that we aren't judging people for issues that scripture is silent on. Liberty of conscience is important. I find believers are particularly harsh with one another over what amounts to personal preferences. The fact that someone doesn't share the same personal preferences as you is not indicative of sin in their lives.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

So? It can still be wrong, harmful, deceitful, proud, something to be ashamed of, etc.

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It is NEVER wrong. We all know lying is a sin. Therefore, lying for ANY reason is a sin. To God, it is on the same level as adultery, murder, theft, and creating idols. You might as well curse God's name if you only care about making other people happy by lying to them.

I just don't get why believers do not think we cannot judge. The Bible actually tells us to in many places. Granted, I do not set out to judge people, but if I see something wrong, it is not wrong for me to point it out. Paul says have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Reprove them means to correct them or judge them.

On the forums it is different. There are rule in place that do not allow for the personal judgment of others. So I stick with things like "I believe..." and "The Bible says," in reference to describing the truth and or correcting against untruth.

Besides, a person who says that it is wrong to judge is judging. They are judging that it is wrong to judge. So they are making a judgment by even saying that. It is pretty silly.

Bible Highlighter said:

On the forums it is different. There are rule in place that do not allow for the personal judgment of others. So I stick with things like "I believe..." and "The Bible says," in reference to describing the truth and or correcting against untruth.

Besides, a person who says that it is wrong to judge is judging. They are judging that it is wrong to judge. So they are making a judgment by even saying that. It is pretty silly.

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In this case, the OP has posed a question to us on the forums and has invited our response. There is no judging here of anyone, just a personal and honest answer to that question based on our understanding of what the scriptures teach us.

Bible Highlighter said:

I just don't get why believers do not think we cannot judge. The Bible actually tells us to in many places. Granted, I do not set out to judge people, but if I see something wrong, it is not wrong for me to point it out. Paul says have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Reprove them means to correct them or judge them.

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We can indeed carefully judge actions people do, words, deeds, teachings, doctrines...along of course with mere things of the world.

But, there are judgements that we are entirely 100% prohibited from making, and getting clear on that is so crucial, so I wrote it out carefully in post #13 above, which might be too brief. (Let me know if something is unclear.)

Halbhh said:

We can indeed carefully judge actions people do, words, deeds, teachings, doctrines...along of course with mere things of the world.

But, there are judgements that we are entirely 100% prohibited from making, and getting clear on that is so crucial, so I wrote it out carefully in post #13 above.

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I don't agree. The passage you cite is in reference to hypocritical judgment. Believers can overcome grievous sin. They are supposed to do so as a part of God's grace (See: Titus 2:11-12). Also see 2 Corinthians 7:1.

lambofgod43985889 said:

to say the truth about something bad is not to judge.
million examples

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Well. I'm not sure. But what I DO know is that a viper by any other name is still a viper ...

Bible Highlighter said:

I don't agree. The passage you cite is in reference to hypocritical judgment. Believers can overcome grievous sin. They are supposed to do so as a part of God's grace (See: Titus 2:11-12).

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This could help: consider whether you yourself are authorized to judge souls. (one can learn the answer to that by reading through the gospels, where we learn Who is authorized to be the Judge on the day to come).

Possibly the misunderstood thing might be it's not yet clear that I've used the phrase "judge people" as totally unalike to judging a person's actions. So...since I'm saying we can rightfully judge a person's actions....then when I say we cannot judge a person, what precisely did I mean???

For example, someone might better respond to me: "What do you mean when you say we can judge a person's actions, but should not judge a person? That sounds like a contradiction."

And then I'd know I'd not written in a clear enough way, and it needs a longer explanation, to help them get the difference I'm pointing at.

We can know a tree by its fruit -- that's "judging actions/words/deeds".

We are not the only authorized Judge of souls though. Whole different thing.

Notice this specific use of the word 'condemn' -- that's what it means to judge a person (as a soul). Those who judge persons as persons, as souls, will themselves be condemned, just as they have condemned others (unless they confess and repent to the Lord! and show that is real repentance by ceasing to do it further):

Luke 6:37 Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

So, none of us is ever authorized to judge others' souls, to condemn them. We can though carefully judge actions.

Perhaps I should append this clarification to post #13, do you think?

SkyWriting said:

1After these things Jesus was walking in Galilee, for He was unwilling to walk in Judea because the Jews were seeking to kill Him. 2Now the feast of the Jews, the Feast of Booths, was near. 3Therefore His brothers said to Him, “Leave here and go into Judea, so that Your disciples also may see Your works which You are doing. 4“For no one does anything in secret when he himself seeks to be known publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world.” 5For not even His brothers were believing in Him. 6So Jesus said to them, “My time is not yet here, but your time is always opportune. 7“The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil. 8“Go up to the feast yourselves; I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come.” 9Having said these things to them, He stayed in Galilee.

10But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as if, in secret. 11So the Jews were seeking Him at the feast and were saying, “Where is He?” 12There was much grumbling among the crowds concerning Him; some were saying, “He is a good man”; others were saying, “No, on the contrary, He leads the people astray.” 13Yet no one was speaking openly of Him for fear of the Jews.

14But when it was now the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and began to teach. 15The Jews then were astonished, saying, “How has this man become learned, having never been educated?” 16So Jesus answered them and said, “My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me. 17“If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself. 18“He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

19“Did not Moses give you the Law, and yet none of you carries out the Law? Why do you seek to kill Me?” 20The crowd answered, “You have a demon! Who seeks to kill You?” 21Jesus answered them, “I did one deed, and you all marvel. 22“For this reason Moses has given you circumcision (not because it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and on the Sabbath you circumcise a man. 23“If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses will not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made an entire man well on the Sabbath? 24“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”


In this case it means that the laws of religion fail compared to the actions of God and his mercy. It is similar to the normal usage of treating all people fairly regardless of station.


2 Thessalonians 1:5
Romans 2:5
John 7:24
Romans 1:32
Deuteronomy 16:18
Psalm 9:4
Psalm 119:160
Zechariah 8:16
2 Peter 2:5

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Attempting to paraphrase what I think you might be saying, do you mean that people tend to judge on just appearances, according to 'station'? If that's what you meant, sounds like we are agreeing then, since judging just by who has what station is simply a specific instance of disobeying John 7:24 then (it's wrong to judge according to station/status/reputation/appearances instead of by true fairness and righteousness).

Judgment becomes excessive when you say something like "I believe you are wrong about (****) and you are going to hell." Here you are appropriating to yourself a judgment that belongs to God alone.

JackRT said:

Judgment becomes excessive when you say something like "I believe you are wrong about (****) and you are going to hell." Here you are appropriating to yourself a judgment that belongs to God alone.

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BINGO!

ChristianForCats said:

It is NEVER wrong. .

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This is not true.

ChristianForCats said:

Therefore, lying for ANY reason is a sin.

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This is not truth.

ChristianForCats said:

To God, it is on the same level as adultery, murder, theft, and creating idols.

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This is wrong.

Others (several others) have already expained this from Scripture, simply, elsewhere.
(so I wont derail the thread here again with this)

Yeshua, NO Christian should think we should EVER sin for ANY reason. That IS the truth.

If you don't believe me, read Exodus 20.