Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil

bling said:

You have inspired people in the New Testament talking about Adam and Eve like they were real people.

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So how do you tell someone was inspired 2000 years ago ?

Jonathan Walkerin said:

So how do you tell someone was inspired 2000 years ago ?

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In spirit and in truth I reckon.

People can be inspired and still not know every single thing about reality. Theology has developed in time. So has science. Apparently humans develop in time. Even Christ came at the appropriate time.

Noxot said:

People can be inspired and still not know every single thing about reality. Theology has developed in time. So has science. Apparently humans develop in time.

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Apparently. So who is to say that those saying Adam and Eve are just fictional figures are not inspired ?

Jonathan Walkerin said:

Apparently. So who is to say that those saying Adam and Eve are just fictional figures are not inspired ?

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I guess when you reference Adam and Eve that you can either reference them as if they were fictional characters or as if they were real people.

I think that it is becoming clear that the Bible is not an scientific manual. God blessed scientists and then those scientists help to refine our own understanding of the Bible. The important thing is that we understand theologically what the Adam and Eve story means. There is a lot of description to that story. for instance Eve seems to have lied to the serpent. She said that God said not to touch it. When did God say that?

Noxot said:

There is a lot of description to that story. for instance Eve seems to have lied to the serpent. She said that God said not to touch it. When did God say that?

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“O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive!”

Sir Walter Scott

Jonathan Walkerin said:

“O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive!”

Sir Walter Scott

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There is a humming bird that builds its nest with spiderwebs and it sticks little pieces of natural material to the spiderweb to camouflage it.

Now that I look at the story the serpent said "did God really say You must not eat from any tree in the garden?"

But strangely the woman said to the serpent "we may eat fruit from the trees in the garden but God did say you must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden and you must not touch it or you will die."

But God said "you are free to eat from any tree in the garden but you must not eat from the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil for when you eat of it you will surely die"

A little earlier in gen 2:8 "in the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil"

How strange. The tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil were both in the middle. Why did God give us the woman as a helper?

Noxot said:

How strange. The tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil were both in the middle. Why did God give us the woman as a helper?

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Yet you do not wonder why the trees were there in the first place ?

Jonathan Walkerin said:

Yet you do not wonder why the trees were there in the first place ?

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Well I see the garden as the potentiality of us to become.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

So how do you tell someone was inspired 2000 years ago ?

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First off the Holy Spirit decided to protect and preserve their writing in scripture.

Noxot said:

There is a humming bird that builds its nest with spiderwebs and it sticks little pieces of natural material to the spiderweb to camouflage it.

Now that I look at the story the serpent said "did God really say You must not eat from any tree in the garden?"

But strangely the woman said to the serpent "we may eat fruit from the trees in the garden but God did say you must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden and you must not touch it or you will die."

But God said "you are free to eat from any tree in the garden but you must not eat from the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil for when you eat of it you will surely die"

A little earlier in gen 2:8 "in the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil"

How strange. The tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil were both in the middle. Why did God give us the woman as a helper?

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It was not good for man to be alone and after naming all the animals man could see he was lacking something the animals had.
Did Adam mislead Eve in telling her what God said about the tree?
Eve is not a clone of Adam with different plumbing, but complements Adam, she is made for Him which makes her very different. Adam was the best a human could be made (very good by God's standard), but Eve is the best a woman can be made who will be a helper for Adam and not the best a person can be made (since that was Adam).
So what would be some mental differences Eve would need to have to help Adam?

Noxot said:

Well I see the garden as the potentiality of us to become.

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One day long ago, I was at work handling picture frames. I came across a strange one that looked kinda looked like a Christmas Tree. I then heard, "I Am The Tree of Life". If this be so, than what is the other tree? The other tree was eaten of long ago before our time and affects the way we are. We have become because of that tree. It is as if we are one with that tree. I tell you a truth, that that tree is all about self. And where there is self, there is suffering, because nothing will ever measure up or satisfy. On the other hand, there is The Tree of Life. This is The Tree that man was created to eat of and be satisefied. In it(The Lord) there is no more want(I shall not want). And there it is, Noxot, the simplicity of the complex. The answer is found in Jesus, and Jesus alone. Be Blessed!

Jonathan Walkerin said:

Well storywise they were children in the terms of experience and hardship with no worries so this would make sense right ?

Of course considering this it makes zero sense to put a forbidden apple in the middle of the garden and expect them to make an educated decisions that determined the fate of mankind especially for an omnipotent being.....

It is a cool story, but that is all it is.

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It makes all the sense in the world to take to mature adults with massive intellects fully capable of getting along on their own .. and expect them not to "jump off a cliff" as a "fun thing to do". In addition expect them not to eat poison ivy and not to eat from the one tree you point out to them... as their "very simple... easy.. test".

I find your logic illusive - in your apparent premise that "God is not capable of making two such beings"

GTW27 said:

One day long ago, I was at work handling picture frames. I came across a strange one that looked kinda looked like a Christmas Tree. I then heard, "I Am The Tree of Life". If this be so, than what is the other tree? The other tree was eaten of long ago before our time and affects the way we are. We have become because of that tree. It is as if we are one with that tree. I tell you a truth, that that tree is all about self. And where there is self, there is suffering, because nothing will ever measure up or satisfy. On the other hand, there is The Tree of Life. This is The Tree that man was created to eat of and be satisefied. In it(The Lord) there is no more want(I shall not want). And there it is, Noxot, the simplicity of the complex. The answer is found in Jesus, and Jesus alone. Be Blessed!

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I think that self is good because if there is no self then we cannot know God and God can't know us. Most religions hate the individual soul. Being a mortal creature is suffering. Now I know what it's like. Sleeping and being ignorant is a useful thing for my development and I don't want to throw away everything that I've gained. In being imperfect I am even more perfect now, eventually. In being weak and vulnerable I can see God from a new view.

I can be satisfied but that won't put food in my belly nor protect me from the harsh elements of nature. The tedium of creaturehood is a burden. If you don't take care of the body it starts to rot. I will escape from the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil when my body perishes.

BobRyan said:

It makes all the sense in the world to take to mature adults with massive intellects fully capable of getting along on their own .. and expect them not to "jump off a cliff" as a "fun thing to do". In addition expect them not to eat poison ivy and not to eat from the one tree you point out to them... as their "very simple... easy.. test".

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It makes no sense at all. If they had "massive intelligences" and only thing they did was name animals no wonder they got bored and decided to do something interesting.

I bet Stephen Hawking or Einstein would be eating some poison apples too when God said " Good work on naming Giraffe, next are the 925 000 species of insects coming up"

How Many Species of Insects Are There?

Presumably God did know how they were wired and what would happen by placing the trees in the middle of their habitat whatever they were too childish, innocent, intelligent or stupid.

It is a story about obedience, consequences and morals.

If you try to fit this in real world scenario with the players we have in place it makes no sense at all. Try to step back a bit and change the names for something other religions have and admit to yourself how ridicilous this sounds.

BobRyan said:

It makes all the sense in the world to take to mature adults with massive intellects fully capable of getting along on their own .. and expect them not to "jump off a cliff" as a "fun thing to do". In addition expect them not to eat poison ivy and not to eat from the one tree you point out to them... as their "very simple... easy.. test".

I find your logic illusive - in your apparent premise that "God is not capable of making two such beings"

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Jonathan Walkerin said:

It makes no sense at all. If they had "massive intelligences" and only thing they did was name animals no wonder they got bored and decided to do something interesting.

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The idea that someone with a massive intellect on a newly created planet with new forms of life on it and world of land and sea biology, chemistry, physics that is all new to them would be "instantly bored" does not makes sense in this life or in any alternate universe one could imagine.

I bet Stephen Hawking or Einstein would be eating some poison

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Seriously? Hawking was trapped in his chair the whole time and "still" did not find your need to "eat poison" as the "top thing to do".

How are you even being serious??

BobRyan said:

How are you even being serious??

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BobRyan said:

The idea that someone with a massive intellect on a newly created planet with new forms of life on it and world of land and sea biology, chemistry, physics that is all new to them would be "instantly bored" does not makes sense in this life or in any alternate universe one could imagine.

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Where in the Bible do you get a picture that Adam was Leonardo Da Vinci ? Can you link some Bible passage where Adam was contemplating chemistry and physics ? Just listen to yourself...

Fine, how about we just leave your megaintellectual animal namer and think logically what God supposedly did ?

What was the point of installing the apple trap in the middle of the garden if it was not meant to trip mankind ? Let alone letting a talking agitator snake run around if it was not part of the plan ?

And when all the pieces went together and mankind fell who got the blame ? The weak and foolish woman. Eh what ?

BobRyan said:

It makes all the sense in the world to take to mature adults with massive intellects fully capable of getting along on their own .. and expect them not to "jump off a cliff" as a "fun thing to do". In addition expect them not to eat poison ivy and not to eat from the one tree you point out to them... as their "very simple... easy.. test".

I find your logic illusive - in your apparent premise that "God is not capable of making two such beings"

Click to expand...

Jonathan Walkerin said:

It makes no sense at all. If they had "massive intelligences" and only thing they did was name animals no wonder they got bored and decided to do something interesting.

Click to expand...

The idea that someone with a massive intellect on a newly created planet with new forms of life on it and world of land and sea biology, chemistry, physics that is all new to them would be "instantly bored" does not makes sense in this life or in any alternate universe one could imagine.

I bet Stephen Hawking or Einstein would be eating some poison

Click to expand...

Seriously? Hawking was trapped in his chair the whole time and "still" did not find your need to "eat poison" as the "top thing to do".

How are you even being serious??

Jonathan Walkerin said:

Where in the Bible do you get a picture that Adam was Leonardo Da Vinci

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Adam was fresh off the assembly line, no genetic defects, life span of over 900 years, capable of operating on his own "from day 1" rather than "zygote-day-1". Adam has motor skills, language and the ability to analyze an animal and assign it a name -- day 1. Adam also is mature enough to participate in a marriage ... day 2. (As opposed to zygote-day-1 which would be the natural model)

Da Vinci had none of that.

Assume the worst believe the worst gets you to "Bible not true"

BobRyan said:

Adam was fresh off the assembly line, no genetic defects, life span of over 900 years, capable of operating on his own "from day 1" rather than "zygote-day-1". Adam has motor skills, language and the ability to analyze an animal and assign it a name -- day 1. Adam also is mature enough to participate in a marriage ... day 2. (As opposed to zygote-day-1 which would be the natural model)

Da Vinci had none of that.

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You are comparing Adam "fresh from assebly line" to Da Vinci zygote day 1. Is this what Christian apologetics has come down to ? Is this really all that you can conjure to defend your viewpoint ?
Quite pitiful.

How about this part that you conveniently left out ?

Jonathan Walkerin said:

What was the point of installing the apple trap in the middle of the garden if it was not meant to trip mankind ? Let alone letting a talking agitator snake run around if it was not part of the plan ?

And when all the pieces went together and mankind fell who got the blame ? The weak and foolish woman. Eh what ?

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Do explain the logic. Not mentioning zygotes gets you extra points.