Did the apostles and the early Church believe the Earth was flat?

zoidar said:

But couldn't Earth be like a half globe?

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Bible says it's flat, science (not the falsely so-called purported variety) agrees. Let God be true. He ought to know! For the heavens declare His glory and the firmament showeth His handiwork.

Ah, it's great to be free in Christ.

zoidar said:

How do you explain the bending of the water of the ocean at the horizon?

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Bodies of water lie flat. Any bending is apparent not actual. It's convergence lines of perspective. Watch a boat disappear over the horizon, then grab your telescope, you'll retrieve it. There's been a great deal of research and experimentation on this topic, the trig curvature figures are uncontroversial, but the results are never as predicted by the globe model. And no satisfactory answers coming back from its proponents.

Erik Nelson said:

Please note the spiritual truth of that geocentric view -- the Revelation of God in heaven as recorded in Scripture is that humanity on earth is the focus of Divine Intervention in creation

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Erik that’s very true. Sadly the new god of man has removed Gods special centrepiece of creation the earth and made us to be a mere speck amongst a vast galaxy and endless universe.

Kate30 said:

Mmmm I think the Tyndale bible is really only talking about the flat earth where they pitched their tents and not the entire planet. Shrewd Manager I’m some amused : ) how brazen of the flat earth ones to use 1st Samuel 11:11 in such a way.

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Dear Kate here's my latest brazen flat earth revelation, direct from the HS to you, via me.

Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass? (Job 37:18)

And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. (Rev 15:2)

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth; its dwellers are like grasshoppers. (Isa 40:22)

From Job to Isaiah to John, can you see the consistent treatment of the structure of the cosmos? Now can you see the firmament outlined in this vid?

Kate30 said:

Erik that’s very true. Sadly the new god of man has removed Gods special centrepiece of creation the earth and made us to be a mere speck amongst a vast galaxy and endless universe.

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think that's called "Materialism" which acknowledges only the world of our biological senses, and denies the supernatural realm beyond them (and our best scientific instrumentation)

ironically, we acknowledge "Dark Matter" and "Dark Energy" as fully 95% of all mass-energy in the entire cosmos...

even acknowledging hypothetical "inflationary fields" immediately after the Big Bang...

all based on their subtle inferrable effects...

yet God in heaven works innumerable miraculous & wondrous interventions into human history on earth, evidenced by the profound effects of the ancient-and-hence-un-modern-times-directly-observed events...

yet those we cannot infer

zoidar said:

But couldn't Earth be like a half globe?

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join a world cruise ?

join the Navy ?

Shrewd Manager said:

You'll find that a good telescope will consistently enable you to see objects much much much further away than you should, objects from a viewing height and at distances that on a ball earth of 40k km circumference should be completely lost behind curvature.

May I suggest you do some more research. He who thinks he stands best beware lest he falls.

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share a picture?

Erik Nelson said:

share a picture?

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I'll go one better:

Shrewd Manager said:

You know that declassified US military technical white papers for flight and weapons guidance systems consistently state 'flat nonrotating earth' as a core design assumption? They probably didn't get the gmail earth memo.

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No, the Navy teaches celestial navigation based on spherical trigonometry. Spherical trig wouldn't work on a flat earth. Spherical trig works, so flat earth is wrong.

Yekcidmij said:

No, the Navy teaches celestial navigation based on spherical trigonometry. Spherical trig wouldn't work on a flat earth. Spherical trig works, so flat earth is wrong.

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Hello Mr Calvinist Polymath. Unfortunately 44 documents make for a square of your negative:
Gov’t Admits FLAT EARTH
So it's not no. That would roughly equate with right, right?

Shrewd Manager said:

Hello Mr Calvinist Polymath. Unfortunately 44 documents make for a square of your negative:

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It could also be that I'm speaking from firsthand knowledge - almost like I've lived on a ship, learned celestial navigation and taught it in university classes. I dunno though....feel free to educate me... though it might not go well for you...

Shrewd Manager said:

Hello Mr Calvinist Polymath. Unfortunately 44 documents make for a square of your negative:
Gov’t Admits FLAT EARTH
So it's not no. That would roughly equate with right, right?

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Mr Calvin was knowledgeable on most things including his belief of the geocentric view. Lol from Mrs Calvin : )

Kate30 said:

Mr Calvin was knowledgeable on most things including his belief of the geocentric view. Lol from Mrs Calvin : )

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I don't mind saying Calvin was wrong on this point if that's what he said (maybe this would shock you?). I do wonder if that's a real quote from Calvin though (John Calvin on Nicolaus Copernicus and Heliocentrism - Articles).

.So I'm not sure what good it does to bring up Calvin here. I think it would be better if you argue against my actual point (which didn't manage to quote Calvin at all).

Kate30 said:

Mr Calvin was knowledgeable on most things including his belief of the geocentric view. Lol from Mrs Calvin : )

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Haha, if Michael Servetus turns out to be a Copernican it'll blow the case wide open.

You know Luther also rubbished heliocentrism? And why wouldn't he, it's absolutely ridiculous. Like saying the bird is stationary and we're flying past it!

Yekcidmij said:

It could also be that I'm speaking from firsthand knowledge - almost like I've lived on a ship, learned celestial navigation and taught it in university classes. I dunno though....feel free to educate me... though it might not go well for you...

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Did you check out the 44 documents? You might learn something about ballistics, flight and navigation systems. All flat nonrotating. Hey don't shoot the messenger.

Or maybe take it up with Captain Cook. Guess he didn't get the GPS memo, still plane sailing and plane table charting all the way down to where he logged miles and miles of ice walls in Antarctica.

Erik Nelson said:

Please note the spiritual truth of that geocentric view -- the Revelation of God in heaven as recorded in Scripture is that humanity on earth is the focus of Divine Intervention in creation

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That's an interesting and useful point!

Geometrically of course the Earth orbits the sun, and the sun orbits the galaxy, and the galaxy dances around gravitationally with other nearby galaxies.

But!....

All of creation is ultimately created to be our home!

And that makes the Earth the center of the Universe, in that key way.

Very helpful point to point out.

Shrewd Manager said:

Did you check out the 44 documents? You might learn something about ballistics, flight and navigation systems. All flat nonrotating. Hey don't shoot the messenger.

Or maybe take it up with Captain Cook. Guess he didn't get the GPS memo, still plane sailing and plane table charting all the way down to where he logged miles and miles of ice walls in Antarctica.

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I note here that you're not able to argue the previous point about the use of spherical trig in celestial navigation (as the Navy teaches it's officers and quartermasters). So if the "government has admitted to a flat earth" then it seems at least the Navy is teaching and using spherical trig.

I told you this might not go well for you.

Yekcidmij said:

I don't mind saying Calvin was wrong on this point if that's what he said (maybe this would shock you?). I do wonder if that's a real quote from Calvin though (John Calvin on Nicolaus Copernicus and Heliocentrism - Articles).

.So I'm not sure what good it does to bring up Calvin here. I think it would be better if you argue against my actual point (which didn't manage to quote Calvin at all).

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Why would you say Calvin was wrong on that point. Simply because you have chosen the heliocentric model above what the word of God teaches and what the church originally believed and taught. Perhaps you have not fully comprehended the damage the heliocentric belief has done with people who no longer believe and trust in the word of God. By the way I wasn’t the one that originally brought Calvin up.

Kate30 said:

Why would you say Calvin was wrong on that point. Simply because you have chosen the heliocentric model above what the word of God teaches and what the church originally believed and taught. Perhaps you have not fully comprehended the damage the heliocentric belief has done with people who no longer believe and trust in the word of God. By the way I wasn’t the one that brought Calvin up.

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Hmmm... I was just reading this post:

buzuxi02 said:

The original apostles believed in whatever Hebrew culture taught.
Paul was probably familiar with the various philosophical cosmologies and scientific theories of his day.
The Alexandrian Fathers knew the earth was spherical as did most of the educated in the Greek world. Heck, Basil the Great in his Hexaemeron on Genesis even gives us an approximation on the circumference of the earth (and yes he gets it correct).
Certain Latin fathers believed in a flat earth as the Latin education system was based on families having the ability to hire tutors. There wasnt much of a collective education system in Rome to spread various knowledge.

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