Is the Sabbath everywhere on the seventh day of the week as it was in Eden?

Which is most correct?

  • The first Sabbath was from morning to morning

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Israel remembers the first Sabbath at a different time

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • From morning to evening is the half a day period God called day

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • From evening to morning is the half a day period God called night

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • From evening to evening in Israel is not a local day of the week

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • All of the above

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Bro. Dave Gardner

Active Member
Sep 9, 2019
199
62
57
New England
✟19,847.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Brother, although the Seventh-day Adventist Church has prepared me to see this new truth through our investigation of the word translated as "evening", someone who is not of my faith highlighted this truth in Genesis in a forum in Spanish. Comparing Genesis with Leviticus convinced me that the first day ends with the first half of a Sabbath in Israel from evening to evening in Leviticus with a morning in the middle that splits the two halves, the first 12 hour period of a Sabbath night in Israel ends the first day that began earlier with a 12-hour light period. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, you're off-track. These offshoot errors are preparing the way for the acceptance of the final deception.
 
Upvote 0

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,060
143
53
Berrien Springs
Visit site
✟538,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
Brother, you're off-track. These offshoot errors are preparing the way for the acceptance of the final deception.
Brother, as Jesus pointed out, we often come up with invented traditions that do not expose all the truth revealed by the word of God. If no one questions that thought, it becomes a tradition that does not fully expose the truth. It can happen without malice and forums like these unite us to question those traditions that we believe are true but do not fully expose the truth that God has revealed. Only the truth will free us from all deceit. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Upvote 0

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,060
143
53
Berrien Springs
Visit site
✟538,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
Oh, well then, this is where the error started.
Brother, it's not a mistake, but you see that exposes a previous mistake that nobody has questioned so far. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
it's not a mistake, but you see that exposes a previous mistake that nobody has questioned so far.

Since Yahuweh the Creator Clearly Revealed His Understanding and His Meaning of Scripture to His Apostles and Teachers and Evangelists, etc,

and it is not what
you
think
or came up with in the flesh,

what
you have been tricked into believing you "discovered" on your own is clearly false and wrong.

If a "spirit" taught you this (as deceiving spirits can), then it is not of Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,060
143
53
Berrien Springs
Visit site
✟538,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
Since Yahuweh the Creator Clearly Revealed His Understanding and His Meaning of Scripture to His Apostles and Teachers and Evangelists, etc,
and it is not what you think or came up with in the flesh, what you have been tricked into believing you "discovered" on your own is clearly false and wrong. If a "spirit" taught you this (as deceiving spirits can), then it is not of Jesus.
Brother, you have it the other way around, the truth is not in the traditions we inherit from our predecessors, the truth is in God's revelation through the prophets. What I have learned comes from the source of truth, the word of God. That it conflicts with tradition only means that tradition is wrong and we must remove our invented tradition to allow the truth to light our path. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Upvote 0

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,060
143
53
Berrien Springs
Visit site
✟538,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
THis is what I said and believe.

The stuff you are posting is what you were deceived by, and is not and was not learned from Jesus.
Brother, I have given my evidence from the Scriptures, what defense do you have for your tradition against what I have highlighted from the Scriptures? United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Upvote 0

Bro. Dave Gardner

Active Member
Sep 9, 2019
199
62
57
New England
✟19,847.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
That it conflicts with tradition only means that tradition is wrong and we must remove our invented tradition to allow the truth to light our path.
It could also mean absolutely no such thing. The even-to-even keeping of the Sabbath is no invented tradition, and not all tradition is evil--only that which is observed to the exclusion of God's clear commands. If you are truly a Seventh-day Adventist of substantial experience you should be aware of the counsel we have been given regarding the ready acceptance of "new light"--especially that which comes from those who reject the core beliefs of the church, the 5 Ss, etc. (Sabbath, State of the dead, Sanctuary, Second Coming, Spirit of Prophecy). Since you claim to be Adventist and are the OP, I trust this information is relevant.
 
Upvote 0

Bro. Dave Gardner

Active Member
Sep 9, 2019
199
62
57
New England
✟19,847.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Brother, I have given my evidence from the Scriptures, what defense do you have for your tradition against what I have highlighted from the Scriptures? United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
The evidence has been given. Fanciful interpretations notwithstanding.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
The evidence has been given. Fanciful interpretations notwithstanding.
It appears the same false teaching was tried years ago at a website 'foroadventista' (part in Spanish, part in English) but got not even one reply ....

guevaraj
Miembro

Miembro
  • Fecha de Ingreso: jul 2012
  • Mensajes: 1581

what is the true blessed and sanctified sabbath?
11/03/16, 15:04:38

Brothers in Jesus, the word of God reveals the Sabbath fixed in Eden time over the whole earth.
 
Upvote 0

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,060
143
53
Berrien Springs
Visit site
✟538,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
That appears to be a sorrowfully poor and wrong mis-statement , and a vain attempt to deflect as if to defend your error.
Brother, so far you only assume that I am in error, but you have not given evidence to defend your tradition besides assuming that it is correct. However, you are not the first person I speak with, so I will help you by giving you their defense. A messianic Jew confirmed that they see the word "evening" as representing the night by its beginning and the word "morning" as representing the day by its beginning. I responded that they were diminishing what God really said in making that substitution, because the word "evening" speaks of two periods since it is a word of transition from one period to another, in the case of "evening", it passes from a period of light to a period of darkness that requires light before going to darkness, and their tradition diminishes what God really said by reducing it to speak of only one of its two periods represented by replacing it with only one of two, night, so that by their tradition do not realize that for an "evening" you must first have light to move into night. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,582
2,203
88
Union County, TN
✟656,769.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'm not any more anxious to fixate upon the coupling of words such as "done" and "away" than I am of "ten" and "commandments." I'm not looking for a scrumptious buffet item. I'm trying to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Perhaps that seems clichéd to some, but it is a rather unambiguous command of the Lord.
You sure do have a way with words. Being a country boy I really don't reckon you impress that many. Again, I didn't write 2Cor3, Paul did and he said that the 10 commandments were temporary and have been replaced by the Holy Spirit as our guide. Being a former Adventist I do know a mite bit about the belief system. Y'all gauge everything you believe on the writings of E. G. White. To differ with what she wrote is to commit heresy. So you have to make-up some excuse for Paul's plain words in 2Cor3, Eph2:15 and Gal3:19.

A tenacious obsession with shiny parts of 2 Corinthians, Ch. 3 does not a convincing argument make. Thechapter is not the nullification of the ten (there's that word again--conspicuous by its absence here but ironically exempt from the hermeneutic stronghold in this case) commandments, but of their inability to atone for their violation.
Oh, so impressive, not. Come down off your high-horse and let's have a decent debate. You can try to impress someone else some other time.

Whatever "done away" does mean, it is clear that that which was "done away" was glorious (2 Corinthians 3:7-11) and was part of a perfect whole (1 Corinthians 13:10). It appears that the language used is for the purpose of contrast (good/better, like the theme of the book of Hebrews) and not polar opposition (trash/treasure).
Opinions, everyone has some. It means exactly what it says. Jesus fulfilled the Sinai covenant with its 613 laws (refute 613 if you like), but that is what our Jewish friends tell us. He said He came to fulfill the Law and the prophets and I believe Him over some self proclaimed prophet and the church she and some former Millerites started.

As far as judging inspiration by selected phrases such as "I say...," that is a rabbit hole the depths of which I will never be found plumbing. Therefore your regrets regarding my mental health are, I assure you, misplaced. However, I do find much of your attempted, hardly-clever wordsmithing teetering between amusing and obnoxious and, in any case, combative and lacking in Christian charity.
Ditto!

I did not suggest jettisoning "Gal 5" and I suspect that you fully well know that.
Then act like a grown-up and admit the 10 commandments were like a 101 course for how we are to treat God and our fellow man. Paul mentions a few more and of course Jesus added to the meaning of some commands dealing with morality.

We obviously do not agree on the inspiration of the writings of Paul, as indicated plainly in your "I say..." quid pro quo. His keeping of feast days would not constitute a positive command for other Christians to do so unless we're eager to cite some other scripture out of context.
Obviously, ditto with the writings of Luke as to those who continued with Sabbath observance. That does not prove that Christians are obligated to observe any old covenant, for the Israelite only, ritual Law. Gentiles have never been under the ritual laws given to Israel. I am referring to all the ritual laws like Sabbath, food laws, feasts, new moons, not shaving sideburns, etc..


Christ gives no positive command for Christians to lay down their lives for others. Again, more hardly-clever wordsmithing. No doubt, you will cite 1 John 3:16 here but, please note, this is not a "commandment," and in keeping with your school of inspiration/interpretation, how can we be certain that the Beloved Disciple is not here merely expressing his own opinion? Or was he exempt from ever misunderstanding Christ's words, unlike (according, it seems, to the reckoning of some) poor Peter--Apostle, Second-Class. A tangled web, to be sure.
Not so nice a way of avoiding the issue. Jn15:12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. What did Jesus do for mankind my friend? And you tell me it isn't part of the command? Seems like you would do anything to keep from agreeing. Is it because you have been taught that all others are Babylon and are false?

To be clear, my purpose here is not to dispute or convince you of error, but merely to attempt to counter your influence on those who might be sincerely searching for truth.
You have don a pretty good job trying to "dispute" and convince. Those who are lurking are not naivest, they will not try to cull all the scripture presented to explain the simple Gospel of salvation by faith and not of ritual Law. Nothing you have presented upholds the theory that Christians are obligated to observe the ritual laws of the Sinai covenant. They were for the nation of Israel and them only.

I bear you no ill will, but you do seem firmly entrenched in your error and openly hostile to those who oppose your antinomianist views, and I have no problem with acknowledging that, whatever your reaction. I have no problem with you entrenchment am not intimidated whatsoever by theological bullying. Of that, you may be certain.
I certainly bear you no ill will and I am sympathetic to your involvement with a group of people that believe they are the only true church on the face of the Earth and will not recognize any of the truths presented by others.

1Jn 3:19-14 is the key to truth. It is my most favorite group of verses in all of scripture:
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


Jude1:24
24 Now all glory to God, who is able to keep you (and me) from falling away and will bring you (and me)with great joy into his glorious presence without a single fault. 25 All glory to him who alone is God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord. All glory, majesty, power, and authority are his before all time, and in the present, and beyond all time! Amen.

We will never stand alone without Jesus at our side. Do not allow anyone to convince you of that we have to stand alone.

Footnotes:
 
Upvote 0

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,060
143
53
Berrien Springs
Visit site
✟538,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
No. As I and others have noted many times already, The errors you posted are clear and directly contrary to God's Word. Nothing to do with tradition.
Brother, where is your evidence? I declare the following from the scriptures:
  • from morning to evening is the half a Sabbath period that God called day
  • form evening to morning is the half a Sabbath period that God called night
Note that the previously mentioned night period ends the first day that began with the daylight period.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

The word evening requires the light first to pass into the night as it is present before an "evening" takes place. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bro. Dave Gardner

Active Member
Sep 9, 2019
199
62
57
New England
✟19,847.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
the word "evening" speaks of two periods since it is a word of transition from one period to another, in the case of "evening", it passes from a period of light to a period of darkness that requires light before going to darkness, and their tradition diminishes what God really said by reducing it to speak of only one of its two periods represented by replacing it with only one of two, night, so that by their tradition do not realize that for an "evening" you must first have light to move into night.
And on this earth, you must first have night to move into light.

From StepBible.org--Genesis 1:5:

עֶ֫רֶב (e.rev) 'evening' (H6153)
Search for this word (~125 occurrences)
Meaning
1) evening, night, sunset
1a) evening, sunset
1b) night

בֹּ֫קֶר (bo.qer) 'morning' (H1242)

Search for this word (~189 occurrences)
Meaning
1) morning, break of day
1a) morning
1a1) of end of night
1a2) of coming of daylight
1a3) of coming of sunrise
1a4) of beginning of day
1a5) of bright joy after night of distress (fig.)
1b) morrow, next day, next morning

If anything, "morning" is more of a transitional word in the original tongue.

And there is no indication that "evening speaks of two periods."

Your claim appears to be groundless, Brother.
 
Upvote 0

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,060
143
53
Berrien Springs
Visit site
✟538,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
If anything, "morning" is more of a transitional word in the original tongue.
Brother, if you understand that "morning" is a word of transition, then you must see that morning ends the first day and begins the next. You must see that the first day is from light to light or from morning to morning. The light period is the previous morning to evening when the second period of evening to morning completes the first day, reveling days of 24 hours from morning to morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bro. Dave Gardner

Active Member
Sep 9, 2019
199
62
57
New England
✟19,847.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It means exactly what it says.
What does this mean?:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7
You sure do have a way with words. Being a country boy I really don't reckon you impress that many.

Oh, so impressive, not. Come down off your high-horse and let's have a decent debate. You can try to impress someone else some other time.


Opinions, everyone has some.

Ditto!

Then act like a grown-up and admit the 10 commandments were like a 101 course for how we are to treat God and our fellow man. Paul mentions a few more and of course Jesus added to the meaning of some commands dealing with morality.

Obviously, ditto with the writings of Luke as to those who continued with Sabbath observance. That does not prove that Christians are obligated to observe any old covenant, for the Israelite only, ritual Law. Gentiles have never been under the ritual laws given to Israel. I am referring to all the ritual laws like Sabbath, food laws, feasts, new moons, not shaving sideburns, etc..

You have don a pretty good job trying to "dispute" and convince. Those who are lurking are not naivest, they will not try to cull all the scripture presented to explain the simple Gospel of salvation by faith and not of ritual Law. Nothing you have presented upholds the theory that Christians are obligated to observe the ritual laws of the Sinai covenant. They were for the nation of Israel and them only.


I certainly bear you no ill will and I am sympathetic to your involvement with a group of people that believe they are the only true church on the face of the Earth and will not recognize any of the truths presented by others.
I have read your other posts. You are patently hostile toward Sabbath-keepers. No need to pretend otherwise. My supply of time and effort is limited. As I have said, I will expend some energy in countering your harmful influence, but I will not spar with you for your amusement.
 
Upvote 0

Bro. Dave Gardner

Active Member
Sep 9, 2019
199
62
57
New England
✟19,847.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Brother, if you understand that "morning" is a word of transition, then you must see that morning ends the first day and begins the next. You must see that the first day is from light to light or from morning to morning. The light period is the previous morning to evening when the second period of evening to morning completes the first day, reveling days of 24 hours from morning to morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
You seem to be arguing with yourself now.

I do not see that morning ends the first day. I do not see that at all. I do not see that "evening" refers to two periods. I do not see that days of 24 hours are from morning to morning. What I see is a twisted depiction of God as a being who delights in confusing His creatures about the difference between night, day, evening, morning, light, darkness for 6000 years and then revealing the truth through enlightened, but not very articulate folks and I find it all quite nauseating, to be honest.

The Bible account is that of a day beginning at sunset. No rocket science necessary.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,060
143
53
Berrien Springs
Visit site
✟538,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
What I see is a twisted depiction of God as a being who delights in confusing His creatures about the difference between night, day, evening, morning, light, darkness for 6000 years and then revealing the truth through enlightened, but not very articulate folks and I find it all quite nauseating, to be honest.
Brother, you've articulated why nobody wants to see it. It is not God's fault that no one has valued this truth before to bring it to light. God has given us the evidence to demolish the deception of the Sunday-hour pushed by the bishops of Rome to replace the Sabbath at the height of their rebellion and deception of changing the ten commandments of God written by His own finger. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Upvote 0