THE NATURE AND TIMING OF THE RESURRECTION IN BIBLE

LittleLambofJesus said:

We?
Take it up with staff, and for the final time, quite derailing my thread with off topic posts and personal attacks on me like that...............

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It is not intended to be a personal attack upon you.

However, if you are going to continue to promote Full-Preterist sources, and Universalist sources on this forum, and to deny the future resurrection of the dead, you would be the one who needs to speak to the staff of this forum.


2Ti_2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

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LittleLambofJesus said:

Hello Dougg........that is off topic to the thread and not sure why you bring that vid up.
Funny vid tho LOL...I do love their accent .........
you do have a thread on that..........

Brexit and bible prophecy

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It was just meant to be a funny, instead of reporting posts. I deleted it though because my intentions may have not been that evident.

LittleLambofJesus said:

What is the nature and timing of the Resurrection in the NT?

The Nature of the Resurrection | Glory (Religion) | Resurrection Of Jesus

The enemies of fulfilled eschatology make their biggest attacks in this very area - resurrection of the dead and the nature of it.
It doesn’t seem to bother the proponents of this view that the term “resurrection of the flesh” or “resurrection of the body” never appears in the bible. Nonetheless they make this a point of fellowship and attack us on this ground believing that this is our weakest point and most dangerous area.

We believe that this topic as well as any other issue regarding fulfilled eschatology can easily be defending from Scriptures.
Some time back on an internet forum there was a debate that was taking place between Preterist Dr. Kelly Birks and Amillienialist Gene Cook where it was agreed upon by both sides as to the topic which was how the Lord viewed the timing of his parousia. Little into the debate Mr. Cook took it upon himself to change the topic to the nature of the resurrection if somehow that would be how he would defend his view of the timing texts.

It was because Mr. Cook thought that this would be our weak point and his strong point that he diverted the issue. He made it sound as though it was necessary to talk nature regarding the resurrection to show how Jesus viewed the timing of his coming.

It is true that timing and nature are related and that how one views one of these reflects how one interprets the other. We aim to show in this article that the nature of the resurrection must be subjugated to the timing texts as we will give biblical support for this. We will also show that despite the opposition in their attempts to divert all discussion to this topic, it is not our weak point and is actually the very heart of what we believe to be the support of our position.

The question that we need to ask when looking at the resurrection of the dead and its nature is this.
Is there a biblical basis to interpret passages that speak of life from the dead or resurrection as something other than being raised physically from biological death?

We are fully aware that some passages could mean nothing else but a coming to life back from biological death such as the resurrection of our Lord. But what about the examples in the rest of Scripture?

There is one verse that is overlooked by those on both sides of this issue regarding how the disciples would have viewed the phrase “resurrection of the dead” or “rise from the dead.”
The passage is in Mark 9:9-10. After the Mount of Transfiguration Jesus comes down and says this:

"And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead"

And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

Now what was in the minds of the disciples that would make them even wonder what rise from the dead could mean? Would anyone today have a problem understanding the phrase if someone told them they would rise from the dead?

We don’t know what they were thinking but we do know they must have had understood the phrase as meaning more than one thing else why ask the question. Could they be thinking of a passage in the Old Testament that clearly taught something else? Are there any Old Testament examples that speak of a resurrection that the meaning is quite otherwise?
This is important if we are to let Scripture interpret scripture as well as harmonize the timing texts on both the second coming and the related resurrection of the dead.

The answer is an obvious yes and one such example is Ezekiel 37.
Here is a description of bones rising up and flesh and sinew coming upon them as their spirit is put into them. But what does this speak of? Its first application is Israel coming back to the land after the Babylonian captivity. The New Testament application of this varies depending upon one’s eschatological view. Some would say this secondary application is an actual physical resurrection such as will be experienced by God’s people in the so called rapture. Others see the application of this as spiritual which is describing the regeneration of the sinner via the Holy Spirit under the preaching of the gospel.
And some even say it is Israel coming back into the land in 1948.
=============================
I actually have a thread on the "Valley of Bones"

WHAT ABOUT EZEKIEL 37 "VALLEY OF BONES"

Ezekiel 37:
10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.
11 Then He said to me, "Son of 'adam! these bones are the whole House of Israel. They indeed say, 'Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!'

Luke 2:34
And Simon blesses them and said toward Mariam His mother,
"behold! this-One is set/lying into a Fall and Resurrection/standing-up<386> of many in the Israel, and into a Sign being spoken against"

Resurrection and Rapture

Revelation 11:
9 And are observing out of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations their bodies three and half days and their bodies not they suffer to be placed into a tomb.
11 And after the three days and a half, a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand upon their feet and great fear falls upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!" And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud
15 And the seventh Messenger trumpets and became great voices/sounds in the heaven saying "became the Kingdom of the world of the Lord of us and of the Christ of Him and He shall be reigning into the ages of the Ages.

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead not live until should be being finished<5055> the thousand years,
This is the first resurrection<386>

Click to expand...

Part I

The nature of the resurrection: natural body to spiritual body

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

The timing of the resurrection of the just and unjust: Around the time of the great tribulation of Daniel's people at the end of the age, when Christ comes.

Daniel 12:1-3At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 24:29-31 Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

Matthew 13:40-43 As the weeds are collected and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness. And they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

LittleLambofJesus said:

What is the nature and timing of the Resurrection in the NT?

The Nature of the Resurrection | Glory (Religion) | Resurrection Of Jesus

The enemies of fulfilled eschatology make their biggest attacks in this very area - resurrection of the dead and the nature of it.
It doesn’t seem to bother the proponents of this view that the term “resurrection of the flesh” or “resurrection of the body” never appears in the bible. Nonetheless they make this a point of fellowship and attack us on this ground believing that this is our weakest point and most dangerous area.

We believe that this topic as well as any other issue regarding fulfilled eschatology can easily be defending from Scriptures.
Some time back on an internet forum there was a debate that was taking place between Preterist Dr. Kelly Birks and Amillienialist Gene Cook where it was agreed upon by both sides as to the topic which was how the Lord viewed the timing of his parousia. Little into the debate Mr. Cook took it upon himself to change the topic to the nature of the resurrection if somehow that would be how he would defend his view of the timing texts.

It was because Mr. Cook thought that this would be our weak point and his strong point that he diverted the issue. He made it sound as though it was necessary to talk nature regarding the resurrection to show how Jesus viewed the timing of his coming.

It is true that timing and nature are related and that how one views one of these reflects how one interprets the other. We aim to show in this article that the nature of the resurrection must be subjugated to the timing texts as we will give biblical support for this. We will also show that despite the opposition in their attempts to divert all discussion to this topic, it is not our weak point and is actually the very heart of what we believe to be the support of our position.

The question that we need to ask when looking at the resurrection of the dead and its nature is this.
Is there a biblical basis to interpret passages that speak of life from the dead or resurrection as something other than being raised physically from biological death?

We are fully aware that some passages could mean nothing else but a coming to life back from biological death such as the resurrection of our Lord. But what about the examples in the rest of Scripture?

There is one verse that is overlooked by those on both sides of this issue regarding how the disciples would have viewed the phrase “resurrection of the dead” or “rise from the dead.”
The passage is in Mark 9:9-10. After the Mount of Transfiguration Jesus comes down and says this:

"And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead"

And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

Now what was in the minds of the disciples that would make them even wonder what rise from the dead could mean? Would anyone today have a problem understanding the phrase if someone told them they would rise from the dead?

We don’t know what they were thinking but we do know they must have had understood the phrase as meaning more than one thing else why ask the question. Could they be thinking of a passage in the Old Testament that clearly taught something else? Are there any Old Testament examples that speak of a resurrection that the meaning is quite otherwise?
This is important if we are to let Scripture interpret scripture as well as harmonize the timing texts on both the second coming and the related resurrection of the dead.

The answer is an obvious yes and one such example is Ezekiel 37.
Here is a description of bones rising up and flesh and sinew coming upon them as their spirit is put into them. But what does this speak of? Its first application is Israel coming back to the land after the Babylonian captivity. The New Testament application of this varies depending upon one’s eschatological view. Some would say this secondary application is an actual physical resurrection such as will be experienced by God’s people in the so called rapture. Others see the application of this as spiritual which is describing the regeneration of the sinner via the Holy Spirit under the preaching of the gospel.
And some even say it is Israel coming back into the land in 1948.
=============================
I actually have a thread on the "Valley of Bones"

WHAT ABOUT EZEKIEL 37 "VALLEY OF BONES"

Ezekiel 37:
10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.
11 Then He said to me, "Son of 'adam! these bones are the whole House of Israel. They indeed say, 'Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!'

Luke 2:34
And Simon blesses them and said toward Mariam His mother,
"behold! this-One is set/lying into a Fall and Resurrection/standing-up<386> of many in the Israel, and into a Sign being spoken against"

Resurrection and Rapture

Revelation 11:
9 And are observing out of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations their bodies three and half days and their bodies not they suffer to be placed into a tomb.
11 And after the three days and a half, a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand upon their feet and great fear falls upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!" And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud
15 And the seventh Messenger trumpets and became great voices/sounds in the heaven saying "became the Kingdom of the world of the Lord of us and of the Christ of Him and He shall be reigning into the ages of the Ages.

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead not live until should be being finished<5055> the thousand years,
This is the first resurrection<386>

Click to expand...

Part II

After the dead are raised, those who are alive will be caught up with them to always be with the Lord

1 thessalonians 4:17 After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

claninja said:

Part I

Daniel 12:1-3At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
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Just a simple question that requires a Biblical answer:
When is the Book of Life opened?

Another question from #107:
...we will always be with the Lord. Where?

keras said:

Just a simple question that requires a Biblical answer:
When is the Book of Life opened?

Click to expand...

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Php_4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

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LittleLambofJesus said:

Hopefully not hanging around in the air. .

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Plainly; Jesus is on His way to the earth, where He will reign for 1000 years. This 'harparzo' is a transportation in the manner of the precedent set by Philip. Acts 8:39

No one has come clean with the truth of how it will be AFTER the Millennium, when the Book of Life is opened and those worthy will receive immortality. NEVER before that time.
The fanciful aspirations of the 'rapture to heaven' believers has blinded them all.

Douggg said:

You are misapplying what is said in those passages. Revelation 11:18 is timed to begin when the vials of God's wrath are poured out on the nations.

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20:1-3 The Millennium: After Christ’s second coming, the earth is utterly desolate, a jagged smoldering ruin. The righteous have been taken to Heaven, and the wicked have been destroyed. 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

20:7-10 At the end of the thousand years of the millennium, Jesus and His people, along with the holy City, the New Jerusalem, descend to the earth. Revelation 21:2. All the wicked who have ever lived are now resurrected in “the resurrection of damnation,” and “Satan” is “loosed out of his prison.”

20:11-15 The Great White Throne Judgment: After the wicked surround the City of God, but before they are destroyed, God opens the books of Heaven and shows each one of the lost the record of his life of rebellion against God. They also see the love of God in the effort He has expended to affect their salvation, and in the blood of the Son of God poured out on their behalf.

Revelation 20 Commentary

The record books of heaven portray its unmistakeable detail their selfishness, cruelty, and every particular of their rejection of God’s authority. They will see clearly why their names are not in the Book of Life. Revelation 13:8; Exodus 32:32, 33; Revelation 3:5.

All the wicked will be fully convinced of God’s justice in the sentence of eternal death pronounced against them. All of God’s judgments are seen to be fair and honest. The entire host of the lost will bow down and confess that God is just. Romans 14:11. Even Satan will knee’ before God and admit that he has been wrong in his rebellion Then the wicked receive their punishment in the lake of fire with Satan and his angels.

Original Happy Camper said:

20:1-3 The Millennium: After Christ’s second coming, the earth is utterly desolate, a jagged smoldering ruin. The righteous have been taken to Heaven, and the wicked have been destroyed. 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

20:7-10 At the end of the thousand years of the millennium, Jesus and His people, along with the holy City, the New Jerusalem, descend to the earth. Revelation 21:2. All the wicked who have ever lived are now resurrected in “the resurrection of damnation,” and “Satan” is “loosed out of his prison.”

20:11-15 The Great White Throne Judgment: After the wicked surround the City of God, but before they are destroyed, God opens the books of Heaven and shows each one of the lost the record of his life of rebellion against God. They also see the love of God in the effort He has expended to affect their salvation, and in the blood of the Son of God poured out on their behalf.

Revelation 20 Commentary

The record books of heaven portray its unmistakeable detail their selfishness, cruelty, and every particular of their rejection of God’s authority. They will see clearly why their names are not in the Book of Life. Revelation 13:8; Exodus 32:32, 33; Revelation 3:5.

All the wicked will be fully convinced of God’s justice in the sentence of eternal death pronounced against them. All of God’s judgments are seen to be fair and honest. The entire host of the lost will bow down and confess that God is just. Romans 14:11. Even Satan will knee’ before God and admit that he has been wrong in his rebellion Then the wicked receive their punishment in the lake of fire with Satan and his angels.

Click to expand...

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

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