Salvation Cannot be Lost

FreeGrace2 · Sep 30, 2019

renniks said:
Here's another for you:

18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Loss of faith=loss of salvation (being a broken off branch)

Hopefully, you will just answer the question:

Can a recipient of eternal life perish? yes or no

FreeGrace2 · Sep 30, 2019

JLB777 said:
Those who are in Christ are saved.

Those who are removed from Christ, are no longer saved.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:2

Jesus taught us we must REMAIN IN HIM.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Here is how the scripture instructs us to REMAIN IN CHRIST.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

again

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

Why would anyone teach God’s people they can live in sin and still be saved?

WARNING TO ALL WHO ARE READING THIS THREAD.

DON’T BELIEVE ANYONE WHO TELLS YOU THAT BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS CAN LIVE IN SIN AND STILL BE SAVED. JLB

The only real question is this:

Can a recipient of eternal life perish? yes or no

What say you?

FreeGrace2 · Sep 30, 2019

JLB777 said:
Freegrace is a well known false teacher.

He has openly taught that born again Christians who take the mark of the beast are still saved.
JLB

So you can add lying to your resume, eh? You know very well what I said about the mark of the beast. But since you've made this claim, I dare you to prove your claim with actual thread and post #, which you know very well you cannot do.

Here is what I actually said about it. Unfaithful believers will be removed through the sin unto death, a divine discipline of God before the mark will be given. Therefore, there WON'T be any such believers around to take the mark.

So quit lying, ok?

And you know what you've taught about those who are liars:

Rev 21:8 - But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

The red relates to the "fiery lake".

So, you've just, by this newest lie, identified your own eternal destiny then.

You may want to re-think your views.

But, in the meantime, just answer the very simple and straightforward question:

Can a recipient of eternal life perish?

But, of course, you already know the answer. An answer that you just don't like or believe, even though Jesus SAID it Himself.

FreeGrace2 · Sep 30, 2019

His student said:
Can you provide for us a post where he does that?

Please don't hold your breath in the meantime. Answers aren't in his forte.

I doubt very much that I agree with all that FreeGrace2 says. But if he has taught that particular thing - I'd like to know about it - as I'm sure others would like to know about it.

I'm sure that he can defend himself and doesn't need me to do it for him.

You are quite correct.

But I strongly suspect that what he has taught is that born again Christians will not take the mark of the beast.

Correct again!!

If he has taught that, instead of what you charge - I'd like everyone to know that you are a liar.

Yes, he is.

Ignore this post or fail to prove me wrong -- and everyone following along here will know for pretty sure that you are indeed a liar and a slanderer.

That's about the only way to know who lies and who doesn't. By how they respond to posts. Failure to answer is a clear sign that they don't want to answer, as the answer is so obvious from Scripture that they know it will contradict them, and they have rejected what the Bible says in favor of their own self-elevated opinions.

If that turns out to be the case - I'm sure others like silly Phil will condemn you to hell as a false believer and a sinner.

I dunno. These types tend to stick together like rice.

Prove me wrong about this and I will apologize to you openly here.

Again, please don't hold your breath.

Pretty straight forward challenge huh?

And that's what they are scared of. Which is why they avoid them.

FreeGrace2 · Sep 30, 2019

Phil W said:
As he doesn't think any other sin will disqualify a man from eternal life, why would taking the mark be any different?

So you're gonna just believe what the other poster says, huh.

Not a good move.

renniks · Sep 30, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
The only real question is this:

Can a recipient of eternal life perish?

What say you?

I say you are avoiding the obvious, that a recipient of eternal life is on a journey that isn't finished in this life, and can choose to get off at the wrong exit and back onto the wide path leading to destruction.

renniks · Sep 30, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
Hopefully, you will just answer the question:

Can a recipient of eternal life perish? yes or no

Hopefully, you will agree that a broken off branch is no longer secure in the Vine, and someone not covered by the blood is a non-believer.

FreeGrace2 · Sep 30, 2019

I asked:
"The only real question is this:

Can a recipient of eternal life perish?

What say you?"

renniks said:
I say you are avoiding the obvious, that a recipient of eternal life is on a journey that isn't finished in this life, and can choose to get off at the wrong exit and back onto the wide path leading to destruction.

So your answer is in DIRECT OPPOSITION to that of the Lord Jesus Christ then.

Good to know how you feel about it.

But Jesus was really clear, and obvious. Recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.

Are you aware of just how far apart the words "can" and "shall never" are???

Apparently not. Do you really think they are equivalent?

And, it is quite obvious that you are not reading John 10:28 correctly.

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 30, 2019

Obvious?
hmmm....

FreeGrace2 · Sep 30, 2019

renniks said:
Hopefully, you will agree that a broken off branch is no longer secure in the Vine, and someone not covered by the blood is a non-believer.

We now know for sure that your views are in DIRECT OPPOSITION to that of the Lord Jesus Christ. And that you do not read Scripture correctly.

For, if you did, you would KNOW that those given eternal life (recipients) shall never perish.

Since you think recipients of eternal life can perish, your view is contradicted and refuted by the Lord Himself.

Think upon these things. And repent.

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 30, 2019

renniks said:
Hopefully, you will agree that a broken off branch is no longer secure in the Vine, and someone not covered by the blood is a non-believer.

The demons are not covered by the blood, yet they "believe", and shudder in terror because they know the judgment that awaits them.

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 30, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
Hopefully, you will just answer the question:

Can a recipient of eternal life perish? yes or no

Wrong question.
Someone walking with Jesus today can at any time turn away from Him and walk away if they so chose to do so, as many disciples in Scripture and throughout history did so.

His student · Sep 30, 2019

JLB777 said:
What do you think a person must have, in order for more to be given? JLB

This isn't exactly spiritual rocket surgery. Unless a person has grieved the Holy Spirit somewhere along the way.

He or she needs a purposefully developed propensity to approach a seemingly contradictory set of scriptures in a systematic way that allows for an accounting of both sides of the equation in order to form a correct or at least a more likely correct overall doctrine.

We see these kinds of difficult situation with almost any doctrine we approach I believe it is because it is a bit of a test by God to show forth those in His Church with good attitudes and those with bad. In some cases – perhaps in this present case – it may even show forth who is and is not a part of His Church in the first place.

“No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval.” 1 Cor. 11:19

Areas, among others, where we see this kind of challenge resulting from the way the Holy Spirit has chosen to present truth are: eschatology; gifts in the Church; predestination and free will; and, of course here with the doctrine of eternal security vs. punishment for sin.

If a person has a good attitude and has trained himself to approach these areas in a fair and systematic way – asking for wisdom from God along the way – God will give him that wisdom as He has promised and he will find that eventually he has a much better grasp on the doctrine than those who do not.

On the other hand – there will be those (like yourself and silly Phil) who will take the easy road and simply latch on the side of the doctrinal equation that they either find easiest to defend or tend to like more for some reason. Those folks will eventually find themselves in a theological ditch from which they may even find themselves teaching false doctrine to God’s Church.

“For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?” 1 Corinthians 3:4

If that person has ever been truly born again he will still be saved of course in spite of the false doctrine he has developed. If, on the other hand, he has never been saved - his doctrine may show that fact forth for all to see. It may not be a salvation related doctrine in all cases. But it may well be – such as the person who points to his good works when meeting the Lord only to find the Lord telling him He “never knew you”.

When a person has the kind of attitude we see displayed by some here (like Phil to whom I posted that pertinent scripture and yourself as well) he may well find that the Lord withholds wisdom or even turns him over to his thinking that he is teaching a very important truth. I.e. “the one who does NOT have – even what he thinks he has will be taken away from him”, E.g. – the reward he hopes to have from his teaching the Word of God will turn out to be loss because of his wrong doctrine.

“Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.” James 3:1

On the other hand – if a person makes a sincere effort to fairly present both sides and not simply choose sides and resists the temptation to misrepresent the other side (something apparently very hard for some to do in this forum) – he will likely find no loss at the Judgment Seat of Christ even if he does not receive reward for teaching God’s people.

I have touched on these basic concepts in another post. But, like I said, some have apparently lost the ability to reason logically. Perhaps it’s because the Lord has taken that ability away from them (a possibility I have taught about here).

Capiche?

Daniel C · Sep 30, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
Can a recipient of eternal life perish? yes or no

I say no.

Here's one of many non ambiguous scripture to support eternal security:

ephesians 4:29-30
"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

Saved people are sealed until the day of redemption.

renniks · Sep 30, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
We now know for sure that your views are in DIRECT OPPOSITION to that of the Lord Jesus Christ. And that you do not read Scripture correctly.

For, if you did, you would KNOW that those given eternal life (recipients) shall never perish.

Since you think recipients of eternal life can perish, your view is contradicted and refuted by the Lord Himself.

Think upon these things. And repent.

Lol, you are quite the comedian. Do you suppose all the early church fathers got it wrong and you have it right?

renniks · Sep 30, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
The demons are not covered by the blood, yet they "believe", and shudder in terror because they know the judgment that awaits them.

Sure, but the term "believer" is used often in the Bible to mean the redeemed. I would say there is a big difference between putting one's faith in Christ for salvation and believing that is just knowledge.

FreeGrace2 · Sep 30, 2019

I asked:
"Can a recipient of eternal life perish? yes or no"

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Wrong question.

Excuse me, but it's a very important question. Why would a question that involves what the Lord Jesus Christ said be a wrong question? Are you afraid of answering this question, as all of the Arminians are?

Someone walking with Jesus today can at any time turn away from Him and walk away if they so chose to do so, as many disciples in Scripture and throughout history did so.

And I agree. But, so what? Does that scenario change the clear meaning and words that Jesus said in John 10:28? Of course NOT.

Here's the deal.

Jesus taught that those who believe (current possession from the present tense) HAVE eternal life. That obviously means they HAVE it WHEN they believe.

Or, maybe you'd like to explain WHEN a believer receives the gift of eternal life, and back it up with Scripture.

Then, Jesus taught that those He gives eternal life (that would be those who have believed in Him) shall never perish.

So, there you have it. Either Jesus is to be believed about recipients of eternal life; that they SHALL NEVER PERISH, or He isn't to be believed about recipients of eternal life, and believe that recipients of eternal life CAN perish.

So, it's either one or the other.

Either recipients of eternal life CAN perish, or recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER perish.

But Jesus was clear enough. He couldn't have said it any more clearly.

So, either believe Jesus, or believe some false doctrine.

FreeGrace2 · Sep 30, 2019

Daniel C said:
I say no.

Correct answer!

Here's one of many non ambiguous scripture to support eternal security:

ephesians 4:29-30
"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

Saved people are sealed until the day of redemption.

Not only sealed until the day of redemption, but their inheritance is GUARANTEED until the day of inheritance.

Eph 1:13,14

:oldthumbsup:

FreeGrace2 · Sep 30, 2019

renniks said:
Lol, you are quite the comedian. Do you suppose all the early church fathers got it wrong and you have it right?

The early church fathers are those of the 2nd Century, and you can BET they were wrong, on a whole lot of things. Especially the concept of grace. They knew almost nothing of grace. That's WHY the unbiblical doctrine about losing salvation showed up.

However, this isn't about them or me, as you insinuate.

It's about what Jesus said and whether one believes Him or not.

Between the phrase "I give them (believers) eternal life" and "and they shall never perish", we find NO conditions or exceptions for recipients of eternal life.

But, ALL Arminians keep trying to force some conditions or exceptions into that verse, as if Jesus said it Himself.

But He didn't. What He gives, which is the gift of eternal life, given WHEN one believes, the result is that they shall never perish.

That's why I ask my question. And why Arminians won't give a straight answer. They know that their "no" answer will be seen for what it is; a direct opposition to what Jesus said.

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 30, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
Excuse me, but it's a very important question. Why would a question that involves what the Lord Jesus Christ said be a wrong question? Are you afraid of answering this question, as all of the Arminians are?

I don't know any Arminians.
The problem with the question, or so it seems to me, is a wrong motive with wrong assumptions, including not knowing nor understanding what is thought presumptively to be known or understood.

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