LDS LDS Jesus Could Have Lost His Godhood

He is the way · Sep 29, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Seriously???---God the Father was resurrected? Again--0 From what? What happened--obviously resurrection is from death---you seriously saying God the Father was once dead???? How?!!!

I think you already know that we believe that like Jesus Christ the Father also had a body like ours and now has a spiritual resurrected body like Jesus Christ. He also learned by the things which he suffered:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:8 - 9)

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

(New Testament | John 5:19 - 20)

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

He is the way · Sep 29, 2019

dzheremi said:
I cannot imagine having a worldview that would allow for such a warped reading of 1 Corinthians. How on earth was GOD "Sown in corruption", or in dishonor, etc.? The question was about God, and you come back with all of this stuff that is about our resurrection, which was indeed made possible in the resurrection of Christ (who is God, even as you deny it), such that we, as fallible, passable human beings were subject to corruption naturally, but being risen in Christ will thereafter not be! To quote Methodius' (d. 311 AD) discourse on the resurrection: "But the corruptible and mortal putting on incorruption and immortality, what else is this, but that which is sown in corruption rising in incorruption?" It is true and in line with what is said later by HH St. Athanasius the Apostolic (d. 373), often abused by Mormons in an attempt to give their strange and foreign doctrines patristic sanction which they do not have, concerning Christ: that He became Man so that man may become God. Christ gives us eternal life in the resurrection through having willingly become man (and through the true human flesh He took, suffering corruption and death upon the cross), and hence 'put on corruption' so that the corruptible and mortal (us) may rise in incorruption.

So it's about us, not about God the Father. Again, it is stunning that anyone would get things that wrong.

You said: "How on earth was GOD "Sown in corruption"" The mortal body is a mortal corruptible body:

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 9)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

mmksparbud · Sep 29, 2019

He is the way said:
See post #976 We definitely DO worship God. The way to worship God and LOVE Him is to keep His commandments. He gave us the commandments of LOVE so that we could learn to LOVE as He does. The righteous keep the commandments:

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:18)

18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

(New Testament | Luke 1:5 - 6)

5 ¶ THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judæa, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

(New Testament | 1 John 5:1 - 5)

1 WHOSOEVER believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

+

Keeping His commandments has not kept any of you from denying who the real God of this universe is!!! Keeping the commandments have not kept a single one of you from believing that God the Father, who was God from everlasting to everlasting---was once dead and resurrected!!! Keeping the commandments have not kept a single one of you from believing lies straight from the mind of Satan. You in no way shape of form follow, love, or obey the real God of the bible---you believe in, follow and obey the god of JS and Satan and they can not save you from the lake of fire which is where Satan and anyone who follows him will end up! There is no way that anyone can be "politically correct" and keep a civil, straight face when one has to contend with----God the Father was once human, was once dead and resurrected!!!" That, of course, means that you, too can become God after death!! Good luck with that, as that will get you right on the lap of Satan and both trying to stomp out the flames destroying you! You have no idea who the real God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is! You serve some pathetic creature that was a dead human, can't father children of his own substance, has to have a wife, was not able to have Adam and Eve follow a command to produce children, without the help of Satan making them sin first, can not create with just the power of His voice (Psa_33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.)Your god can noit even get rid of sin but is sentencing the universe with planets ruled by human gods with wives to populate a world full of sinners where another savior has to save that planet from their sins!!! This is a gross and totally wrapped god with a horrible, horrific future to look forward to of just more worlds riddled with sin!
This is no god, certainly no god that you can love, honor, respect or obey. I will forever cling to the loving, beautiful, honorable, merciful, all powerful and creative GOD of the bible. You can totally keep you anemic excuse of a "glorified man."---He is not the God of the bible and you do not know His ONLY Son or His Holy Spirit either.

He is the way · Sep 29, 2019

dzheremi said:
And no, you do not worship God. No way. This is not debatable, because you deny Him by what you yourself write and preach instead. None of us made you write that awful, God-denying rubbish.

(New Testament | Mark 7:6 - 9)

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

(New Testament | Matthew 22:36 - 40)

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

mmksparbud · Sep 29, 2019

He is the way said:
I think you already know that we believe that like Jesus Christ the Father also had a body like ours and now has a spiritual resurrected body like Jesus Christ. He also learned by the things which he suffered:

Yes, I knew you believed He was once human and became a man---I didn't know, or totally forgot, that you believed anything so bizarre as that He had died and was resurrected. Again---How did He die? Oh, my! I think I get it---you believe He died for some other planet once!!! You guys are totally off the track!! Thank God for those that have left this twisted, made up farce and turned to the real God of the bible. You have nothing that any normal thinking person could possibly want in a God---nothing!! This is strictly for those who lust after power as did Lucifer to become God---that is all he has ever wanted and still does. He has changed the realty of the true God into a fairy tale of a wreak god that makes it seem possible for humans to achieve---I do not want this God, I do not want the world he offers, which is basically only for a few who achieve this lie of "exaltation." Thank God there is no such thing as more sin-laden worlds for some man-god to rule over with his multiple wives! It's a world created by a hormonal young man with delusions of grandeur.

He is the way · Sep 29, 2019

mmksparbud said:
+

Keeping His commandments has not kept any of you from denying who the real God of this universe is!!! Keeping the commandments have not kept a single one of you from believing that God the Father, who was God from everlasting to everlasting---was once dead and resurrected!!! Keeping the commandments have not kept a single one of you from believing lies straight from the mind of Satan. You in no way shape of form follow, love, or obey the real God of the bible---you believe in, follow and obey the god of JS and Satan and they can not save you from the lake of fire which is where Satan and anyone who follows him will end up! There is no way that anyone can be "politically correct" and keep a civil, straight face when one has to contend with----God the Father was once human, was once dead and resurrected!!!" That, of course, means that you, too can become God after death!! Good luck with that, as that will get you right on the lap of Satan and both trying to stomp out the flames destroying you! You have no idea who the real God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is! You serve some pathetic creature that was a dead human, can't father children of his own substance, has to have a wife, was not able to have Adam and Eve follow a command to produce children, without the help of Satan making them sin first, can not create with just the power of His voice (Psa_33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.)Your god can noit even get rid of sin but is sentencing the universe with planets ruled by human gods with wives to populate a world full of sinners where another savior has to save that planet from their sins!!! This is a gross and totally wrapped god with a horrible, horrific future to look forward to of just more worlds riddled with sin!
This is no god, certainly no god that you can love, honor, respect or obey. I will forever cling to the loving, beautiful, honorable, merciful, all powerful and creative GOD of the bible. You can totally keep you anemic excuse of a "glorified man."---He is not the God of the bible and you do not know His ONLY Son or His Holy Spirit either.

There is only one way to truly know God. That is to keep the commandments.:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:4 - 5)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

God is LOVE.

twin.spin · Sep 29, 2019

dzheremi said:
This is anathema and disgusting, and not the kind of thing anyone should have to read on a Christian website (but thanks be to God we love the freedom by which a sinner may say his peace and be corrected, if he will take correction). May the One God -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit + -- have mercy upon you for writing such horrific blasphemy. I would echo the words of our holy and perfect Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ upon the Cross, that you be forgiven because you don't know what you are doing or saying, but I suspect that this is not the case. I don't know how anyone could be here on CF and interact with actual Christians as much as you have and not at least have a passive understanding of what is acceptable to say about God on a Christian website that holds to the Nicene Creed as its Statement of Faith and what is not acceptable.

On the other hand, if anyone ever needed proof that Mormonism definitively, by its own doctrine, does not worship God at all, I think this is as good as any you'll find.

Again, Lord have mercy.

Just to add to your post:

In addition to refuting the latest blasphemous post it should be stated:

The word "Trinity" is a 20th century coined word.
The closest one verse \ word that the "Trinity" is used in the 1st century coined word is "Θεότητος" … which in English is: Deity, Godhead. Colossians_2:9

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form," NIV
"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" KJV

For Mormonism to reject the Deity aka Trinity for something other is to identify itself as being non-Christ follower.

dzheremi · Sep 29, 2019

This whole scheme makes the crucifixion, death, and resurrection into a kind of reenactment/play, doesn't it? (We can't even specify "of Christ" in this context, I guess.)

If I'm understanding it correctly, God the Father died on the cross (somewhere, at some point, for some reason), and resurrected, and hence Jesus knew 'what to do' by seeing his particular 'father' do it first. Is this right? If so, it's the craziest, most ridiculous thing I've ever read anywhere ever, and is not even in the same galaxy as anything resembling the gospel of Christ and the Christian religion which founded on that gospel.

dzheremi · Sep 29, 2019

twin.spin said:
The word "Trinity" is a 20th century coined word.

The word "Trinity" is first used with reference to God in the c. 170s in the writings of St. Theophilos of Antioch, the 7th bishop of that city, in the second book of his apology to Autolycus, chapter 15:

"But the moon wanes monthly, and in a manner dies, being a type of man; then it is born again, and is crescent, for a pattern of the future resurrection. In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His wisdom."

mmksparbud · Sep 29, 2019

He is the way said:
There is only one way to truly know God. That is to keep the commandments.:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:4 - 5)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

God is LOVE.

Then you must not keep any of them, for you do not know Him in any way at all!!

twin.spin · Sep 29, 2019

dzheremi said:
The word "Trinity" is first used with reference to God in the c. 170s in the writings of St. Theophilos of Antioch, the 7th bishop of that city, in the second book of his apology to Autolycus, chapter 15:

"But the moon wanes monthly, and in a manner dies, being a type of man; then it is born again, and is crescent, for a pattern of the future resurrection. In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His wisdom."

To my reading, the writer you referenced the context in which he is using the word "Trinity" is to include:

God
His Word
His Wisdom

vs. when most people speak of the "Trinity" it is as to whom God is, specifically limiting it to mean:

Father
Son
Holy Spirit

It is this latter word usage and context of "Trinity" that is objected to by Mormonism which was coined in the 20th century that is often understood in the Colossians 2:9 passage.

But thanks for the info.

dzheremi · Sep 29, 2019

This was a common way to talk about God in early Christianity; see, for instance, the "Fraction on Wisdom", attributed to St. Epiphanius of Salamis (d. 403):

It is carried over from ancient Hebrew scripture (e.g., Proverbs 8, 9:1-6), adapted to personify the revelation of God in Christ (the more common identification) and in the Holy Spirit (the identification in a minority of the fathers, including St. Theophilos). In some 'mystical' interpretations (and here I'm thinking of some things that have cropped up in so called "Sophiology"), probably influenced by Greek philosophy, it is identified with a woman and sometimes even with the Theotokos specifically. The line in the above prayer about Wisdom existing from eternity doesn't allow for that last interpretation, however. (The Theotokos is not preexistent, obviously. There's also the line "She then appeared and walked the earth as a man" -- that's of course identifying holy Wisdom with Christ, as only Christ was incarnate.)

So you're right that it's not the more common understanding, but it is still an understanding found in early Christianity, referring to the same Persons as the more common understanding, and even more still preserved to this day in certain prayers. (We still pray the fraction on Wisdom liturgically, during the Coptic month of Kiahk.)

Rescued One · Sep 29, 2019

He is the way said:
I wouldn't say mere intelligence, nor would I say God is merely love. Is the glory of God mere intelligence? I know that God is powerful. Perhaps we can say that God has supernatural intelligence:

Please stop responding to something I NEVER said! That happens to be rude.
Per Mormonism, everyone began as mere intelligence. They had no spirit bodies, they had no physical bodies, they had no resurrurected bodies as your supposed heavenly father does; he began the same as the rest of us who are referred to as "gods in embryo." In Mormonism, gods and mortals are the same species and we evolve from "intelligences" and advance from that to spirit beings, to mortal beings, and through obedience to all laws and ordinances of Mormonism to becoming gods and goddesses.
Worthy Mormon men become equal to the Mormon god who is called Heavenly Father.

D&C 88:107. The Saints Will Be Filled with God’s Glory and “Be Made Equal with Him”

The sons and daughters of God possess the potential to become like their parents.

Elder Parley P. Pratt said: “Every man who is eventually made perfect—raised from the dead and filled, or quickened, with a fulness of celestial glory—will become like them in every respect, physically and in intellect, attributes, or powers.

“The very germs of these godlike attributes being engendered in man, the offspring of Deity, only need cultivating, improving, developing, and advancing by means of a series of progressive changes, in order to arrive at the fountain ‘Head,’ the standard, the climax of Divine Humanity.” (Key to the Science of Theology,p. 20.)
The Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, copyright 1981, p. 204
Section 88, The Olive Leaf

107 And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.
Doctrine and Covenants 88

He is the way · Sep 29, 2019

dzheremi said:
The word "Trinity" is first used with reference to God in the c. 170s in the writings of St. Theophilos of Antioch, the 7th bishop of that city, in the second book of his apology to Autolycus, chapter 15:

"But the moon wanes monthly, and in a manner dies, being a type of man; then it is born again, and is crescent, for a pattern of the future resurrection. In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His wisdom."

Interesting, did God the Father have a wife:

"In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His wisdom. And the fourth is the type of man, who needs light, that so there may be God, the Word, wisdom, man.

— Theophilus[23]
The concept of intermediate divine beings was common to Platonism and certain Jewish sects. In Proverbs 8 Wisdom (as feminine consort) is described as God's Counsellor and Workmistress, who dwelt beside Him before the creation of the world."

From: Theophilus of Antioch - Wikipedia

Rescued One · Sep 29, 2019

dzheremi said:
This whole scheme makes the crucifixion, death, and resurrection into a kind of reenactment/play, doesn't it? (We can't even specify "of Christ" in this context, I guess.)

If I'm understanding it correctly, God the Father died on the cross (somewhere, at some point, for some reason), and resurrected, and hence Jesus knew 'what to do' by seeing his particular 'father' do it first. Is this right? If so, it's the craziest, most ridiculous thing I've ever read anywhere ever, and is not even in the same galaxy as anything resembling the gospel of Christ and the Christian religion which founded on that gospel.

Not only is this a correct picture of Mormonism, but I think that Mormons are assuming every chosen son of every god repeats this.

From the Ensign magazine:

Eternal Life to Know God and Jesus Christ

I wish I was in a suitable place to tell it, and that I had the trump of an archangel, so that I could tell the story in such a manner that persecution would cease forever. What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon!) The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power—to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious—in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming His name, is not trifling with you or me.

The Righteous to Dwell in Everlasting Burnings

These are the first principles of consolation. How consoling to the mourners when they are called to part with a husband, wife, father, mother, child, or dear relative, to know that, although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. My Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to My Father, so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt Him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the gospel, about which so much hath been said.
The King Follett Sermon

He is the way · Sep 29, 2019

dzheremi said:
This whole scheme makes the crucifixion, death, and resurrection into a kind of reenactment/play, doesn't it? (We can't even specify "of Christ" in this context, I guess.)

If I'm understanding it correctly, God the Father died on the cross (somewhere, at some point, for some reason), and resurrected, and hence Jesus knew 'what to do' by seeing his particular 'father' do it first. Is this right? If so, it's the craziest, most ridiculous thing I've ever read anywhere ever, and is not even in the same galaxy as anything resembling the gospel of Christ and the Christian religion which founded on that gospel.

We believe that God the Father has a spiritual resurrected body like His Son Jesus Christ. That is to say He was born and died. Anything more is speculation.

He is the way · Sep 29, 2019

dzheremi said:
This was a common way to talk about God in early Christianity; see, for instance, the "Fraction on Wisdom", attributed to St. Epiphanius of Salamis (d. 403):

It is carried over from ancient Hebrew scripture (e.g., Proverbs 8, 9:1-6), adapted to personify the revelation of God in Christ (the more common identification) and in the Holy Spirit (the identification in a minority of the fathers, including St. Theophilos). In some 'mystical' interpretations (and here I'm thinking of some things that have cropped up in so called "Sophiology"), probably influenced by Greek philosophy, it is identified with a woman and sometimes even with the Theotokos specifically. The line in the above prayer about Wisdom existing from eternity doesn't allow for that last interpretation, however. (The Theotokos is not preexistent, obviously. There's also the line "She then appeared and walked the earth as a man" -- that's of course identifying holy Wisdom with Christ, as only Christ was incarnate.)

So you're right that it's not the more common understanding, but it is still an understanding found in early Christianity, referring to the same Persons as the more common understanding, and even more still preserved to this day in certain prayers. (We still pray the fraction on Wisdom liturgically, during the Coptic month of Kiahk.)

So ""She then appeared and walked the earth as a man" that seems pretty crazy to me.

He is the way · Sep 29, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
Please stop responding to something I NEVER said! That happens to be rude.
Per Mormonism, everyone began as mere intelligence. They had no spirit bodies, they had no physical bodies, they had no resurrurected bodies as your supposed heavenly father does; he began the same as the rest of us who are referred to as "gods in embryo." In Mormonism, gods and mortals are the same species and we evolve from "intelligences" and advance from that to spirit beings, to mortal beings, and through obedience to all laws and ordinances of Mormonism to becoming gods and goddesses.
Worthy Mormon men become equal to the Mormon god who is called Heavenly Father.

D&C 88:107. The Saints Will Be Filled with God’s Glory and “Be Made Equal with Him”

The sons and daughters of God possess the potential to become like their parents.

Elder Parley P. Pratt said: “Every man who is eventually made perfect—raised from the dead and filled, or quickened, with a fulness of celestial glory—will become like them in every respect, physically and in intellect, attributes, or powers.

“The very germs of these godlike attributes being engendered in man, the offspring of Deity, only need cultivating, improving, developing, and advancing by means of a series of progressive changes, in order to arrive at the fountain ‘Head,’ the standard, the climax of Divine Humanity.” (Key to the Science of Theology,p. 20.)
The Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, copyright 1981, p. 204
Section 88, The Olive Leaf

107 And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.
Doctrine and Covenants 88

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Rescued One · Sep 29, 2019

He is the way said:
God has a resurrected spiritual body not a human body. There is no trinity however Jesus did do His Father's will and completed the works His Father gave Him to do.. Where does it say that Godhood requires having a body?

The plan of salvation is the same for every spirit child, is it not? Those who are exalted to godhood are required to marry for time and eternity (see D&C 132).

"God an Exalted Man"
The King Follett Sermon

Those who neglect marriage for time and eternity in a Mormon temple:

“‘For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.’ (D&C 132:17.)

Rescued One · Sep 29, 2019

He is the way said:
(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Jesus was always fully God! Philippians 2:5-6 does not say otherwise!

Jesus was always God. And all God's people shout, AMEN!

LDS LDS Jesus Could Have Lost His Godhood

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

Well-Known Member

Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Similar threads