question about hell

Dkh587

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If God ever reconciles creation, keeping the dead seems illogical.
Exactly - when a farmer harvests wheat, he separates the grain from the chaff, and burns the chaff. He doesn’t keep it around - he gets rid of it.
 
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SkyWriting

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SkyWriting

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And I do not plan to force you to take the gift of life....only making you aware that is it there.

May you receive the desires of your heart.

So you will not strike me blind for three days?
I agree, it doesn't work that way.
 
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RaymondG

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So you will not strike me blind for three days?
I agree, it doesn't work that way.
Sometimes we have to go blind before we can see....so that while sitting in darkest, we too, can see great light. Until then, seeing we do not see and hearing we do not hear, lest we be converted.....
 
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Semper-Fi

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1.Final destruction of Satan and his followers.

Rev. 20:14-15 – “And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire, This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” Please note that the death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.

Zeph. 3:8 – “Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the Lord, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.”

2 Pet 3:12 – “Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat.” This is very similar to Noah’s case where the Ark (the saved ones inside) was floating on water and now the New Jerusalem (the saved ones inside) will be floating on the lava. In both cases the unsaved will be totally destroyed.

Pretty awesome the intense heat to melt all the elements. This earth will be like a ball of live lava, glowing hot and fire coming down from heaven.
That is how this polluted earth, Satan and the non saved will be destroyed. That is the Hell Fire.

ashes under the soles of your feet.
For all eternity never to return.
 
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Semper-Fi

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They are cursed.

For the wages of sin is death;
but the gift of God is eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord.

God does not gift them eternal life,
just to torture them for all eternity.

The punish of death is forever eternal.
It is called the second death, no return

What about those who have never seen
a bible, or heard the name Jesus?
 
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Der Alte

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Exactly - when a farmer harvests wheat, he separates the grain from the chaff, and burns the chaff. He doesn’t keep it around - he gets rid of it.
That analogy does not work with what you are trying to make the verse say.
The chaff and the wheat are part of the same thing. They are not two different things. The righteous and wicked are two different things not part of the same thing. Wheat and tares are two different things.
 
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Dkh587

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That analogy does not work with what you are trying to make the verse say.

The chaff and the wheat are part of the same thing. They are not two different things. The righteous and wicked are two different things not part of the same thing. Wheat and tares are two different things.


Actually, it does work, because the wicked are compared to chaff.


Psalms 1:4

The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.


Job 21:17-18

How oft is the candle of the wicked put out! and how oft cometh their destruction upon them! Goddistributeth sorrows in his anger.


They are as stubble before the wind, and as chaff that the storm carrieth away.


It is important to remember, that the wicked are not literally tares/goats/chaff, and that the righteous are not literally wheat/sheep. This is imagery used to teach lessons about the fate of the righteous and the wicked and how God separates the 2.

The imagery of the chaff and tares prove annihilation. Farmers don’t burn chaff and weeds/tares forever. They burn them to get rid of them.
 
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Der Alte

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Actually, it does work, because the wicked are compared to chaff.
Psalms 1:4
Job 21:17-18
It is important to remember, that the wicked are not literally tares/goats/chaff, and that the righteous are not literally wheat/sheep. This is imagery used to teach lessons about the fate of the righteous and the wicked and how God separates the 2.
The imagery of the chaff and tares prove annihilation. Farmers don’t burn chaff and weeds/tares forever. They burn them to get rid of them.
I wonder how 1st century formerly pagan Christians who had never seen or heard the OT would have understood Matthew 3:12 and Luke 3:17. They would have known that chaff was part of the wheat not something completely different.
 
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Dkh587

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I wonder how 1st century formerly pagan Christians who had never seen or heard the OT would have understood Matthew 3:12 and Luke 3:17. They would have known that chaff was part of the wheat not something completely different.

If they had no knowledge of the Law & Prophets(commonly incorrectly called the OT), they wouldn’t understand the symbolism being used regarding the righteous & the wicked. It’s not literal - the Messiah doesn’t have a winnowing fork with a threshing floor with wheat and chaff on it. These are merely symbols used to depict judgement via agricultural terms, to a culture and group of people of a society based on agriculture. The comparison is being made based on what happens - the righteous are saved, the wicked are destroyed.

That is why it’s very important to make sure we understand what is being taught in the NT in the context of what was taught by Moses & the Prophets.
Moses & the Prophets did not teach eternal torment/torture - they taught annihilation of the wicked, and compared them to many things, not just chaff.

Even the very popular apologetics website, GotQuestions.org, understands that the chaff are used a symbol of the wicked - What is the meaning of chaff in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org
 
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Der Alte

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If they had no knowledge of the Law & Prophets(commonly incorrectly called the OT), they wouldn’t understand the symbolism being used regarding the righteous & the wicked. It’s not literal - the Messiah doesn’t have a winnowing fork with a threshing floor with wheat and chaff on it. These are merely symbols used to depict judgement via agricultural terms, to a culture and group of people of a society based on agriculture. The comparison is being made based on what happens - the righteous are saved, the wicked are destroyed.
As you said Jesus was using illustrations from His knowledge of harvesting etc. in Israel. How would former pagan Christians in Rome, Corinth, Galatia,, Ephesus, Philippi, Colossae, Thessalonika and all of the other nations mentioned in the NT understand Jewish idioms and figures of speech? They would have known as I do that chaff is the outer husk of the wheat kernel and other inedible parts of the wheat plant.
Here is the definition of the Greek word translated "chaff."

ἄχυρον achuron
1) a stalk of grain from which the kernels have been beaten out
2) straw broken up by a threshing machine, chaff.
That is why it’s very important to make sure we understand what is being taught in the NT in the context of what was taught by Moses & the Prophets.
Moses & the Prophets did not teach eternal torment/torture - they taught annihilation of the wicked, and compared them to many things, not just chaff.
See my above response. Most people will believe what they have been taught by pastors and teachers.
…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom. The scripture is highlighted in blue.
…..There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were other beliefs does not rebut, refute, change or disprove anything in this post.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);
[Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT supposed bias of Christian translators. DA]
(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [ שׁאול /Sheol]] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).

Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
= = = = = = = = = =
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.

…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
= = = = = = = = = =
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
It is very important to make sure we understand what is being taught in the NT in the context of what was taught by Moses & the Prophets. Is the above how you understand what was taught by Moses and the prophets.
When Jesus taught e.g.,

• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that often it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4
…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why didn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment. Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, e.g. "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only encourage and reinforce their beliefs.


 
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Dkh587

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As you said Jesus was using illustrations from His knowledge of harvesting etc. in Israel. How would former pagan Christians in Rome, Corinth, Galatia,, Ephesus, Philippi, Colossae, Thessalonika and all of the other nations mentioned in the NT understand Jewish idioms and figures of speech? They would have known as I do that chaff is the outer husk of the wheat kernel and other inedible parts of the wheat plant.

See my above response. Most people will believe what they have been taught by pastors and teachers.
…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom. The scripture is highlighted in blue.
…..There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were other beliefs does not rebut, refute, change or disprove anything in this post.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);
[Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT supposed bias of Christian translators. DA]
(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [ שׁאול /Sheol]] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).

Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
= = = = = = = = = =
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.

…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
= = = = = = = = = =
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
When Jesus taught e.g.,
• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that often it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4
…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why didn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment. Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, e.g. "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only encourage and reinforce their beliefs.

Those believers wouldn’t have understood everything that was being spoken of until they read & learned the Law & Prophets - they would’ve learned more as they read and studied and grew in their faith.
 
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Der Alte

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Those believers wouldn’t have understood everything that was being spoken of until they read & learned the Law & Prophets - they would’ve learned more as they read and studied and grew in their faith.
When did that happen? Can you document it in scripture? I don't think we can assume anything.
It is doubtful that most early churches had anything close to a complete NT. And it is likely that most churches did not have an OT due to the expense and the attitude of Jews against Gentiles..
Here is about 1/4 of the negative attitudes against gentiles I found in the Jewish Encyclopedia

Jewish Encyclopia-Gentiles
Gentiles May Not Be Taught the Torah.
Inasmuch as the Jews had their own distinct jurisdiction, it would have been unwise to reveal their laws to the Gentiles, for such knowledge might have operated against the Jews in their opponents' courts. Hence the Talmud prohibited the teaching to a Gentile of the Torah, "the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob" (Deut. xxxiii. 4). R. Johanan says of one so teaching: "Such a person deserves death" (an idiom used to express indignation). "It is like placing an obstacle before the blind" (Sanh. 59a; Ḥag. 13a). …
Resh Lakish (d. 278) said, "A Gentile observing the Sabbath deserves death" (Sanh. 58b). This refers to a Gentile who accepted the seven laws of the Noachidæ, inasmuch as "the Sabbath is a sign between God and Israel alone," ... Rabbina, who lived about 150 years after the Christians had changed the day of rest to Sunday, could not quite understand the principle underlying Resh Lakish's law, and, commenting upon it, added: "not even on Mondays [is the Gentile allowed to rest]"; intimating that the mandate given to the Noachidæ that "day and night shall not cease" ((Heb.)Lo yshabti = "have no rest ") should be taken in a literal sense (Gen. viii. 22)—probably to discourage general idleness
"The Torah outlawed the issue of a Gentile as that of a beast" (Miḳ. viii. 4, referring to Ezek. l.c.)
Johanan bar Nappaḥa … the Torah was given as a heritage to Israel, a non-Israelite deserves death if he studies it (Sanh. 59a).
Gamaliel also expresses himself to the same effect, adding that the Gentiles, by their impure motive, incur the penalty of Gehenna. Eleazar of Modi'im sides with him, saying that "the Gentiles practice benevolence merely to taunt Israel."
Eliezer b. Hyrcanus is …, the mind of every non-Jew is always intent upon idolatry (Giṭ. 45b). The cattle of a heathen is unfit for sacrifices ('Ab. Zarah 23b). Explaining Prov. xiv. 34, he maintains that the non-Jews only practise charity in order to make for themselves a name (B. B. 10b; Pesiḳ. 12b; Gamaliel is credited with the same opinion in B. B. 10b).
Joshua b. Hananiah, … as a rule Gentiles cling to vain things and are rejected (Prov. xxviii. 19; Gen. R. lxxxii.).
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6585-gentile
 
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Dkh587

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When did that happen? Can you document it in scripture? I don't think we can assume anything.

It is doubtful that most early churches had anything close to a complete NT. And it is likely that most churches did not have an OT due to the expense and the attitude of Jews against Gentiles..

Here is about 1/4 of the negative attitudes against gentiles I found in the Jewish Encyclopedia

Jewish Encyclopia-Gentiles

Gentiles May Not Be Taught the Torah.

Inasmuch as the Jews had their own distinct jurisdiction, it would have been unwise to reveal their laws to the Gentiles, for such knowledge might have operated against the Jews in their opponents' courts. Hence the Talmud prohibited the teaching to a Gentile of the Torah, "the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob" (Deut. xxxiii. 4). R. Johanan says of one so teaching: "Such a person deserves death" (an idiom used to express indignation). "It is like placing an obstacle before the blind" (Sanh. 59a; Ḥag. 13a). …

Resh Lakish (d. 278) said, "A Gentile observing the Sabbath deserves death" (Sanh. 58b). This refers to a Gentile who accepted the seven laws of the Noachidæ, inasmuch as "the Sabbath is a sign between God and Israel alone," ... Rabbina, who lived about 150 years after the Christians had changed the day of rest to Sunday, could not quite understand the principle underlying Resh Lakish's law, and, commenting upon it, added: "not even on Mondays [is the Gentile allowed to rest]"; intimating that the mandate given to the Noachidæ that "day and night shall not cease" ((Heb.)Lo yshabti = "have no rest ") should be taken in a literal sense (Gen. viii. 22)—probably to discourage general idleness

"The Torah outlawed the issue of a Gentile as that of a beast" (Miḳ. viii. 4, referring to Ezek. l.c.)

Johanan bar Nappaḥa … the Torah was given as a heritage to Israel, a non-Israelite deserves death if he studies it (Sanh. 59a).

Gamaliel also expresses himself to the same effect, adding that the Gentiles, by their impure motive, incur the penalty of Gehenna. Eleazar of Modi'im sides with him, saying that "the Gentiles practice benevolence merely to taunt Israel."

Eliezer b. Hyrcanus is …, the mind of every non-Jew is always intent upon idolatry (Giṭ. 45b). The cattle of a heathen is unfit for sacrifices ('Ab. Zarah 23b). Explaining Prov. xiv. 34, he maintains that the non-Jews only practise charity in order to make for themselves a name (B. B. 10b; Pesiḳ. 12b; Gamaliel is credited with the same opinion in B. B. 10b).

Joshua b. Hananiah, … as a rule Gentiles cling to vain things and are rejected (Prov. xxviii. 19; Gen. R. lxxxii.).

GENTILE - JewishEncyclopedia.com

It’s an assumption that the early assemblies didn’t have access to the Law & Prophets. The Ethiopian eunuch had a copy of Isaiah - Acts 8:28. Somebody was making copies.

Did you conveniently forget the Septuagint for the sake of your argument?

The bottom line is, copies of the Law & Prophets were being produced and distributed. Maybe not on the scale like they are today, but they were nonetheless out there and people had access to them.

Paul, an Israelite, learned sin by the Law - Romans 7:7

If the Gentiles did not have access to the Law, they would not have known what sin was, as they were not born & raised with the Law(lawless)

It makes no sense that they didn’t have a copy of the Law & Prophets, except if your argument needs for them to not been able to read them, which yours does. There’s no reason based on the NT writings to think they didn’t have copies of the Law & Prophets.
 
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It’s an assumption that the early assemblies didn’t have access to the Law & Prophets. The Ethiopian eunuch had a copy of Isaiah - Acts 8:28. Somebody was making copies.
Did you read my last post? I only quoted 1/2 page of 2 full pages from the Jewish Encyclopedia article "Gentiles" Here is a link.
GENTILE - JewishEncyclopedia.com
The Ethiopian eunuch was a Jew and from the fact that he had a cart a wealthy Jew. Therefore he would not have been restricted from owning a copy of the T'nakh and wealthy enough to afford one. Making a copy of the scriptures was a long, slow, expensive task. Most people of that era could not afford one.

Did you conveniently forget the Septuagint for the sake of your argument?
Yes copies of the Septuagint were being made for Jews. I refer you to my previous post. Here is a brief quote.

"the Talmud prohibited the teaching to a Gentile of the Torah, "the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob" (Deut. xxxiii. 4). ...one so teaching: "Such a person deserves death"
The bottom line is, copies of the Law & Prophets were being produced and distributed. Maybe not on the scale like they are today, but they were nonetheless out there and people had access to them.
See my previous comments and post.
Paul, an Israelite, learned sin by the Law - Romans 7:7
And your point is? Paul was a Jew.

Act 26:5
(5) Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
Act_22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
Act 23:6
(6) But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
Php 3:5
(5) Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
So Paul would have known the OT but that does not mean any gentile in Rome, Corinth etc. etc. would know the law.
If the Gentiles did not have access to the Law, they would not have known what sin was, as they were not born & raised with the Law(lawless)
Gentiles would have known what sin was when the writers of the NT told them. See e.g.,

1 Co 6:9-10
(9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
(10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:21
(21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:18-21
(18) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
(19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
(20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
(21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
It makes no sense that they didn’t have a copy of the Law & Prophets, except if your argument needs for them to not been able to read them, which yours does. There’s no reason based on the NT writings to think they didn’t have copies of the Law & Prophets
There is absolutely nothing in the NT which shows that gentiles had access to the OT. The only parts of the OT that most gentiles would have known is what is quoted in the NT. And I refer you to my source the Jewish Encyclopedia linked to above.
 
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