Whats the next best thing to be if you are not a christian?

Tinker Grey · Sep 28, 2019

ToBeLoved said:
It is hard for people with no belief in God to understand the things of God or the worldview of anyone different than themselves.

Irony

ToBeLoved · Sep 29, 2019

Tinker Grey said:
Irony

Why is that?

And please show your points from this thread and my posts.

dms1972 · Sep 29, 2019

I think there is a misunderstanding about christians and why they act unselfishly or love God and others. Ophiolite says they do it for a reward after they die. I think the Bible says they love because God first loved them.

dms1972 · Sep 29, 2019

CS Lewis says in his initial conversion to Theism there was not a hope of reward or fear of punishment, he submitted to God simply because God was God. His journey and conversion may be not be typical, certainly many preachers bring heaven or hell into the picture.

Akita Suggagaki · Sep 29, 2019

dms1972 said:
CS Lewis says in his initial conversion to Theism there was not a hope of reward or fear of punishment, he submitted to God simply because God was God. His journey and conversion may be not be typical, certainly many preachers bring heaven or hell into the picture.

Yes, it depends on the believer.

Noxot · Oct 1, 2019

dms1972 said:
Can you say more what you mean by christian tribalism? Did Jesus not establish a church and isn't baptism necessary? Getting baptised etc. is not really an issue for me, as I was baptised in infancy, had christian parents, taken to church etc. I wondered for a while if adult baptism by full immersion was necessary and I was going to a Baptist church so I got baptised as an adult by immersion - but to be honest I was not believing - I had lost any faith I had earlier and was just going to a church but without any real interest. There are many christians however who emphasis that Jesus said He was the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father but by Jesus, that there's No Other Name. Are you saying they are christian tribalists, or do you mean the denominations within christianity?

Christian tribalism is just a name for the tribalism that Christians have when they're being tribalistic. My usage of "tribe" is closely associated with "flesh". In contrast everything starts to be burned up in the spirit and what remains is what belongs to the fire. all the words Christ said are true but they are far more true than Christian tribalists can grasp. Christ is universal because God is universal and in fact we are all in the one same universe. God is Not impartial like the flesh is. in reality Justice is really Just. God will not be mocked, everyone will reap what they sow.

"Christian tribalist" is a large catagory. An example: fleshly people who think they are special and get a get-out-of-jail-free card and who hate or condemn anyone that doesn't accept their selfish get-out-of-jail-free card. It's a childish understanding of Christianity.

Tinker Grey · Oct 1, 2019

Noxot said:
Christian tribalism is just a name for the tribalism that Christians have when they're being tribalistic. My usage of "tribe" is closely associated with "flesh". In contrast everything starts to be burned up in the spirit and what remains is what belongs to the fire. all the words Christ said are true but they are far more true than Christian tribalists can grasp. Christ is universal because God is universal and in fact we are all in the one same universe. God is Not impartial like the flesh is. in reality Justice is really Just. God will not be mocked, everyone will reap what they sow.

"Christian tribalist" is a large catagory. An example: fleshly people who think they are special and get a get-out-of-jail-free card and who hate or condemn anyone that doesn't accept their selfish get-out-of-jail-free card. It's a childish understanding of Christianity.

Ophiolite · Oct 1, 2019

dms1972 said:
I think there is a misunderstanding about christians and why they act unselfishly or love God and others. Ophiolite says they do it for a reward after they die. I think the Bible says they love because God first loved them.

No. Incorrect. I report the fact that many Christians, including some on this forum, make this declaration. I am not expressing my opinion, I am reporting my observation.

I also report the observation that at least one Christian on this forum list ways in which Christian belief benefits them as being a reason for considering Christianity superior to faithless altruism.

Neither of these positions were ones I would have been comfortable with when I was a practising Christian. Neither of these positions are ones adopted by all, or even most Christians. However, they are positions that do exist within the Christian family.

Desk trauma · Oct 1, 2019

ToBeLoved said:
I hope 300,000 babies will not be aborted next year.

Next year they’ll probably break a record in the number of babies killed.

Trends_in_U.S._abortion_rate%2C_1973-2014.png

Noxot · Oct 1, 2019

Tinker Grey said:

it's true that scorning is not the best thing to do. But I believe that some things are absolutely inferior and should be hated. If you don't then why don't you just stop having values and start accepting every single thing everyone believes and pretend that they're all the same and all good.

Reeeeeeeeeeeeee

dms1972 · Oct 1, 2019

Ophiolite said:
No. Incorrect. I report the fact that many Christians, including some on this forum, make this declaration. I am not expressing my opinion, I am reporting my observation.

I also report the observation that at least one Christian on this forum list ways in which Christian belief benefits them as being a reason for considering Christianity superior to faithless altruism.

Neither of these positions were ones I would have been comfortable with when I was a practising Christian. Neither of these positions are ones adopted by all, or even most Christians. However, they are positions that do exist within the Christian family.

You say when you were a "practicing christian". I didn't realise you had been a christian. What was your understanding of being a christian, in what way did you practice?

dms1972 · Oct 1, 2019

Noxot said:
Christian tribalism is just a name for the tribalism that Christians have when they're being tribalistic. My usage of "tribe" is closely associated with "flesh". In contrast everything starts to be burned up in the spirit and what remains is what belongs to the fire. all the words Christ said are true but they are far more true than Christian tribalists can grasp. Christ is universal because God is universal and in fact we are all in the one same universe. God is Not impartial like the flesh is. in reality Justice is really Just. God will not be mocked, everyone will reap what they sow.

"Christian tribalist" is a large catagory. An example: fleshly people who think they are special and get a get-out-of-jail-free card and who hate or condemn anyone that doesn't accept their selfish get-out-of-jail-free card. It's a childish understanding of Christianity.

What is your understanding of becoming a christian, being a christian?

Rajni · Oct 1, 2019

Noxot said:
But I believe that some things are absolutely inferior and should be hated.

If something is deemed "inferior", why would one waste precious
energy hating it?

Ophiolite · Oct 1, 2019

dms1972 said:
You say when you were a "practicing christian". I didn't realise you had been a christian. What was your understanding of being a christian, in what way did you practice?

I was not a"practising christian". I was a practising Christian. I still have enough respect for the religion to appropriately capitalise it.

I acknowledged the God of the Bible, accepted Christ as having died to redeem me, attempted to avoid sin, attended Church, prayed, studied the Bible, etc.

Aside: thank you for implicitly accepting the correction to your post.

dms1972 · Oct 1, 2019

Ophiolite said:
I was not a"practising christian". I was a practising Christian. I still have enough respect for the religion to appropriately capitalise it.

I acknowledged the God of the Bible, accepted Christ as having died to redeem me, attempted to avoid sin, attended Church, prayed, studied the Bible, etc.

Aside: thank you for implicitly accepting the correction to your post.

So what happened, that you now class yourself agnostic, if you don't mind me asking?

I done most of those things too, but I think I must not have been sincere, or I was just trying to become a christian at my own initiative, on my own understanding, not through the work of the Holy Spirit, or I was still operating under some system like Hegelianism - so that my christianity was subsumed under my Hegelianism. I really don't know.

Noxot · Oct 1, 2019

dms1972 said:
What is your understanding of becoming a christian, being a christian?

Nearness to God and suffering like Christ did.

Noxot · Oct 1, 2019

RayJeena said:
If something is deemed "inferior", why would one waste precious
energy hating it?

Cuz I don't like people that worship idols and I'll smash them all.

dlamberth · Oct 1, 2019

dms1972 said:
I know some may object to the question itself, and please reply if you do object for i want to hear those.

I feel that first there is Jesus and sitting away from Him at a distance is the Christian Church, and only rarely do they cross paths.

The medieval woman Christian mystic, Marguerite Porete, commented on this in "The Mirror of Simple Souls" where she wrote that there are two churches. The First Church she wrote preached Love. That Church she called the High Holy Church. The second church she called the Little Holy Church. That church preaches rules, laws and order. It needs to be noted that the second church, the one that preaches rules, laws and order burned Porete at the stake.

The lesson that strikes deeply into my heart is to join the Church of Love as a first and only choice.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 1, 2019

dms1972 said:
I know some may object to the question itself, and please reply if you do object for i want to hear those.

But I got to wondering if one cannot make the transition to be a fully fledged christian (and thats what I struggle with) is there something else I can convert to on the way.

Whether or not you can convert is up to Yahuweh in Yahushua Hamashiach...
Turn to Yahuweh Sovereign Creator, and His Kingdom, and DO as HE Says.
If He So Delights To Do So,
He May Well and Easily Graft you in with His People, in place of a branch that was broken off, you may be grafted in.
This is up to Him of course... as written in His Word.

Ophiolite · Oct 1, 2019

dms1972 said:
So what happened, that you now class yourself agnostic, if you don't mind me asking?

First, a clarification. I am agnostic regarding the concept of deities, but I am atheistic in regard to the Christian God.

I shall be direct, in order to give you an honest answer, not with the intent to offend.
A combination of factors led to me leaving the Faith:

I grew up, literally, abandoning Christianity in my late teens, very early twenties.
I reached the conclusion that rather than being a powerful and important human attribute, faith was a reflection of foolish gullibility.
Even a limited exploration of other religions and their comparison with Christianity suggested their origin was human not Divine.
I found little evidence to support the supernatural elements reported within the Bible.
To some extent the foregoing examinations were triggered by observing the complacent, self-satisfaction of some young Christians and the aggressive, self-righteous assertions of some fundamentalists.

Whats the next best thing to be if you are not a christian?

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