question about hell

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Eishiba said:

is there anywhere in the Bible in which hell is reffered to as eternal torture?

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Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He Shall Be Tormented With Fire And Brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
• Revelation 14:9-11



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vinsight4u said:

There are many more references to the eternal hell.

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If you are going to go there then you are going to have to deal with archetypes. This is no longer literal, we are now looking at the symbolic meaning.

Eishiba said:

is there anywhere in the Bible in which hell is reffered to as eternal torture?

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Kind of, maybe.

In the Greek we get words and expressions like aionion and tous aionos ton aionon. These are often translated as "everlasting"/"eternal" and "forever and ever" respectively. More literally tous aionos ton aionon translates as "the ages of the ages", while aionion is the adjective form of the Greek word aion, which as one might guess already means "age". Aionon probably, in a more strict sense, means something like "enduring" or "age-enduring", with the sense of something of an age, or enduring of an age, with the age being indefinite. Since it is indefinite, then if the "age" is unending then it means somewhat implicitly that it is everlasting.

As such, if the realities of hell (whatever they might be) are of unending endurance, then we could say they are "eternal".

But I've here really only touched upon the "eternal" aspect. The other is "torture". The implication of the word "torture", at least in the popular notion of hell, is that God sentences people to ceaseless tortures, and thus it is an eternal torture external, and given from God. That is how some Christians have perceived hell in history. I don't think it's particularly biblical though, nor is it the most representative of historic Christian thought.

One of the chief problems about talking about hell biblically is that the Bible says almost nothing on the subject. An objective reading of Scripture reveals that there are different sorts of ideas, and descriptions being used to describe both the present and future state of the wicked; but at no point do we get anything resembling a discrete picture. We have Jesus in the Gospels using the common Jewish idea that the place of the dead (She'ol or Hades) is split between the place of the righteous dead (Paradise) and the place of the wicked dead (Gehenna); the thing is the Jewish view was hardly all that dogmatic, and to the extent we have a picture of popular Jewish eschatology Hades/She'ol was a stop-gap, an interim, a waiting place until Resurrection and Judgment. Jewish views of the time, as now, remain diverse. Perhaps the second most important place people look for hell language is the Lake of Fire mentioned in St. John's Apocalypse (Revelation), of course given the very nature of the Revelation as apocalyptic and figurative language is attempting to take what is apocalyptic as literal just doesn't work. In the Apocalypse we read that even death and hades are cast into the lake, which should at least offer us pause as we contemplate what is being said.

It shouldn't be entirely shocking, then, to discover that at no point in the two thousand years of Christian history has there ever been anything resembling a definite view of "hell". There has, instead, always been a great deal of diversity. There are a myriad of views on the subject in Christianity, without any one being authoritative or definite. There is no de facto orthodox view of Hell.

-CryptoLutheran

RaymondG said:

Die period. If you desire to die physically, I find no fault in it......But remember that there is no repentance in the grave/hell.

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There is the first death and the second death. Only the second death has a period.
The physical death has a comma.

Eishiba said:

is there anywhere in the Bible in which hell is reffered to as eternal torture?

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Well, there's no such thing as hell in the OT. The best contender would be Sheol, the gloomy subterranean land of the dead - good, bad and indifferent. Certainly no mention of hell in that catalogue of God's self-proclaimed very good creation in Genesis.

Hell as we know it (assuming a stable concept of exists at all) is cobbled together from the worst-sounding parts of scripture - there's the fires, the ascending smoke of torment, the everlasting punishments, the wailings and gnashings of the teeth and so forth. Add some Medieval torture-type imaginings and some Dante 'abandon hope all ye who enter' comedy et viola! Spiritual terror on tap.

But as the early Greek Church fathers pointed out, regarding 'punishment' the NT Koine Greek always renders kolazei (correction), never timoreizei (retribution). So that in itself militates against the propriety of the translation of the associated adjective 'aionion' as 'eternal'. For correction by its nature has an outcome, which is to be ye corrected, and by implication transformed, reconciled, set right, made righteous, justified etc.

So whatever aionios means in context of kolasin punishment, it cannot logically mean eternal.

So I would answer 'Das ist nicht!' to your question, and suggest it conveys a misnomer, an eschatology foreign to the God of the Bible, a carnal tare doctrine.

Hell is a world without Love.

I actually think the worst thing about Hell woill be being separated from God in tortment and knp
wing that if they had chosen to accept God in this life they would have been together with Him in His eternal Love rather than separated. It will be the regret of knowing they have eternity there and knowing what they are separated from.

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vinsight4u said:

If the worm - their worm -was meaning eating bodies, then those
who would cut off their foot to enter into life would still be under the
worm situation. It is when the whole body gets cast in the fire, as in
the soul/conscience or such part went in there, too.

Isaiah 66 - their worm -dieth not -NT
If some cut off a foot, like Jesus had told to do, then they would
be viewing the worm eating themselves in the lake of fire -if that
worm had to do with a body.

the transgressors get looked at - for their worm dieth not

The reason the just -the ones in flesh will have to go out and
view those people is to see the part as to the worm not dying.

This scene will abhor them.
Daniel 12 makes it an everlasting abhor situation.
Isaiah 66 places it to be done on the new earth - sabbath and new moon.

I believe it is so no saved man will ever sin again! We will hear, fear, and obey the
Almighty God!

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Verse 22 indicates that the new heaven and new earth will take place in the future, the main theme of Isaiah 66 being the return of Christ at the end of the age.

22: For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith Jehovah, so shall your seed and your name remain.

SkyWriting said:

Well, I plan to die, whatever the cause.

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And I do not plan to force you to take the gift of life....only making you aware that is it there.

May you receive the desires of your heart.

SkyWriting said:

There is the first death and the second death. Only the second death has a period.
The physical death has a comma.

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We died when we were born....And the dead continue to bury the dead there after. We must find life before the second death.
Or we can dismiss the impossible, plan for death, and hope for the best......

vinsight4u said:

Psalm 37 is about wicked men dying in the first type of death.
they have been borrowing, but not paying back
evildoers shall be cut off from the earth/land -they are on the way
to hell -not yet the lake of fire for eternity

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David nor any of the the other prophets spoke about the wicked burning forever.

David taught annihilation of the wicked.

RaymondG said:

We died when we were born....And the dead continue to bury the dead there after. We must find life before the second death.
Or we can dismiss the impossible, plan for death, and hope for the best......

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I can't agree.

Dkh587 said:

David nor any of the the other prophets spoke about the wicked burning forever.

David taught annihilation of the wicked.

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If God ever reconciles creation, keeping the dead seems illogical.