Fighting God

Ricky M

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So, God told us thousands of years ago where the world will end up... in the hands of the antichrist. With 1/3 of it burnt up and dead. It's the word of God, it's inevitable. No way it's not going to happen.

But - we do all we can to fight it. We cling the the idea that we have to choose the lesser evil of the many paths that lead to that end. That if we don't participate in getting there, we have no one to blame but ourselves when it does.(?) That we are obligated to play along until that final moment when we (hopefully) finally step back and proclaim "he's not my antichrist'.

Global warming. Sure seems like the right thing to fight it. Yet God says this place is going to burn anyway. Can we really stop it?

OK, I can hear you now, oh this guy's just all gloom and doom and pessimism. Next.

But wait a second... do we believe what God says or not? Do we work towards His goals or not? Can we change what He has declared or not?

Now, no matter what I say right now, a lot of you are going to read into these words "so why even try"? But that's not my point.

My point is, what might we be better off investing that time and energy into?
 

renniks

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So, God told us thousands of years ago where the world will end up... in the hands of the antichrist. With 1/3 of it burnt up and dead. It's the word of God, it's inevitable. No way it's not going to happen.

But - we do all we can to fight it. We cling the the idea that we have to choose the lesser evil of the many paths that lead to that end. That if we don't participate in getting there, we have no one to blame but ourselves when it does.(?) That we are obligated to play along until that final moment when we (hopefully) finally step back and proclaim "he's not my antichrist'.

Global warming. Sure seems like the right thing to fight it. Yet God says this place is going to burn anyway. Can we really stop it?

OK, I can hear you now, oh this guy's just all gloom and doom and pessimism. Next.

But wait a second... do we believe what God says or not? Do we work towards His goals or not? Can we change what He has declared or not?

Now, no matter what I say right now, a lot of you are going to read into these words "so why even try"? But that's not my point.

My point is, what might we be better off investing that time and energy into?
You have no idea when these things will happen. So do good work until then. Getting obsessed with end times is pointless.
 
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joshua 1 9

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My point is, what might we be better off investing that time and energy into?
We invest our time and energy into Heaven. For example, we are going to be learning and taking classes when we get there. We can start to study and learn now what a lot of people will not learn until they actually get to Heaven. We can do all we can to take as many people as we can to Heaven. Starting with our enemies if we have any. To love them and do all we can to win them to Christ. We can work on our rewards and our treasures in Heaven. One pastor said we send the building materials ahead for our mansion. We try to love God more, we do all we can to draw closer to God. We do all we can to study and learn more about God. Then we share what we learn with others to help as many people as we can.
 
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ajcarey

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So, God told us thousands of years ago where the world will end up... in the hands of the antichrist. With 1/3 of it burnt up and dead. It's the word of God, it's inevitable. No way it's not going to happen.

But - we do all we can to fight it. We cling the the idea that we have to choose the lesser evil of the many paths that lead to that end. That if we don't participate in getting there, we have no one to blame but ourselves when it does.(?) That we are obligated to play along until that final moment when we (hopefully) finally step back and proclaim "he's not my antichrist'.

Global warming. Sure seems like the right thing to fight it. Yet God says this place is going to burn anyway. Can we really stop it?

OK, I can hear you now, oh this guy's just all gloom and doom and pessimism. Next.

But wait a second... do we believe what God says or not? Do we work towards His goals or not? Can we change what He has declared or not?

Now, no matter what I say right now, a lot of you are going to read into these words "so why even try"? But that's not my point.

My point is, what might we be better off investing that time and energy into?

I think of Luke 19:11-15: "11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. 15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading."

We need to occupy until He comes by demonstrating the righteous ways, principles, priorities, etc of His coming kingdom (impossible to do if we're not submitted to His reign through the authority of His Word and having a ready mind to partake of His sufferings and be transformed into His image). This cannot be done with the effectiveness God intended without being part of a Biblical church body which is governed by Scripture and each member is faithfully fulfilling their God-given roles and offices. This makes Christ's people the salt and light of the world which God intended them to be by testifying to the world appropriately who God is and reproving the corruption of the world by word and deed. There is no need for the world to go to hell and descend deeper into perversion on our watch, though people who reject the greater light tend to go into deeper darkness- and it has always been the case that relatively few obey the gospel and stay faithful disciples to the end, but certainly no one has to perish. The world as a whole being on a downward spiral to fall under anti-Christ and be judged is no secret and apart from God's longsuffering may have already happened. Beyond anything else a faithful demonstration of Christ in the midst of this crooked and perverse generation through His people, however many or few they are, is what God is after. You can see His zeal for this in the New Testament epistles and in the letters to the 7 churches in Revelation chapters 2 and 3.

I believe practically the shift in thinking this knowledge would give to those who rightly understood it and embraced it would be a greater intent on Biblical accuracy in both doctrine and practice, a view of individual salvation as inseparable from faithfulness to practice and uphold the commandments and judgments of Scripture, and the need to labor towards obtaining and faithfully building up a Biblical church (since so many neglect this or knowingly settle for a church which has no heart, at least in the leadership, to really understand and walk in the whole counsel of God's Word).

That might be rather vague, but it's not hard to see that the Apostles of Christ labored to make disciples of the Lord who lived holy lives in obeying the Bible's commandments; and they gathered these to produce a faithful corporate testimony which practically demonstrated what true Biblical holiness is, and thus the moral and practical excellence of Christ the King's Governmental principles. This is necessary to faithfully preach the gospel and call people to repentance adequately, since true repentance is turning to and changing in accordance with the principles of Christ's coming kingdom. That was the commission of the Apostles and early church; and the goal for God's people has always been to follow their example and exemplify the godly principles and priorities which they taught according to the whole counsel of God's Word. Their mission was never to save the world as a whole from perishing, but to demonstrate Christ to the world through the faithful remnant of Jewish believers who received Jesus as the Messiah the Scriptures promised; and through the gentiles who were grafted into that faithful remnant by coming under the reign of Israel's Messiah- in hopes of reigning with Him in His coming kingdom and being spared from His righteous wrath against those who obey not His gospel when He returns.

1 Thessalonians 1:6-10: "6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.
7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. 9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

2 Thessalonians 1:8-12: "8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. 11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: 12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ."
 
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Job3315

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So, God told us thousands of years ago where the world will end up... in the hands of the antichrist. With 1/3 of it burnt up and dead. It's the word of God, it's inevitable. No way it's not going to happen.

But - we do all we can to fight it. We cling the the idea that we have to choose the lesser evil of the many paths that lead to that end. That if we don't participate in getting there, we have no one to blame but ourselves when it does.(?) That we are obligated to play along until that final moment when we (hopefully) finally step back and proclaim "he's not my antichrist'.

Global warming. Sure seems like the right thing to fight it. Yet God says this place is going to burn anyway. Can we really stop it?

OK, I can hear you now, oh this guy's just all gloom and doom and pessimism. Next.

But wait a second... do we believe what God says or not? Do we work towards His goals or not? Can we change what He has declared or not?

Now, no matter what I say right now, a lot of you are going to read into these words "so why even try"? But that's not my point.

My point is, what might we be better off investing that time and energy into?
I often think about this but I always remember that in Romans 8 it says Creation longs for the manifestation of the children of God...To this day we are aware of the universal agony and groaning of creation, as if it were in the contractions of labor for childbirth. Romans 8:22

Jesus also tells us in Revelations 22: 11...Let the evildoers be at their worst and the morally filthy continue in their depravity—yet the righteous will still do what is right, and the holy will still be holy.

Sometimes I wonder if we are waiting for God to do something (like end the world), when in reality God is waiting for us to realize what we already have and manifest it to the world.
 
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Tolworth John

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Do we work towards His goals or not?
My point is, what might we be better off investing that time and energy into?

What makes you think we can work against Gods plans, goals etc?

Putting time and effort into serving him, is what we should be doing.
The parable of the talents teaches that we are to do our best for Jesus.
 
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Job3315

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For example, we are going to be learning and taking classes when we get there. We can start to study and learn now what a lot of people will not learn until they actually get to Heaven. We can do all we can to take as many people as we can to Heaven.

Do you have scripture to support this? If you don't, could you explain how you arrived at that theory?
 
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Ricky M

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What makes you think we can work against Gods plans, goals etc?
Which is exactly the point of the op. God has decreed that the antichrist will rule the world - is it not working against His plan to think we can vote our way out of that? Same with global warming; God has said the world will be burnt up in the end - is it not working against His plan to think we can carbon-footprint our way out of that?

NOT that we should vote and act irresponsibly. But isn't voting and acting in a way that is directly counter to what God has said will be, a form of kicking at the goads?
 
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Ricky M

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Do you have scripture to support this? If you don't, could you explain how you arrived at that theory?
I was wondering that too. But, with all the diversity and things God built into this world for us to explore and learn, I can't imagine He would offer up any less (if not more) on the new earth.
 
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brinny

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I was wondering that too. But, with all the diversity and things God built into this world for us to explore and learn, I can't imagine He would offer up any less (if not more) on the new earth.

What "new earth"? Are you assuming that there will be a copy-cat of this fallen earth, and in addition, that we will be in "classes", "learning"?

The Bible speaks on Who our Teacher is. We NEED this Teacher, here on earth, Who teaches us ALL things.

When we are WITH God, face to face, we will no longer see as "through a glass darkly", as it is written that we currently do.

As one member already asked, where is it written that we will be "attending classes", etc.
 
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brinny

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Which is exactly the point of the op. God has decreed that the antichrist will rule the world - is it not working against His plan to think we can vote our way out of that? Same with global warming; God has said the world will be burnt up in the end - is it not working against His plan to think we can carbon-footprint our way out of that?

NOT that we should vote and act irresponsibly. But isn't voting and acting in a way that is directly counter to what God has said will be, a form of kicking at the goads?

We are admonished to put on the full armor of God and to keep watch and to pray, and to pray fervently, and as long as we are on this fallen earth, to do as we are admonished to do, and that is, to take down the strongholds of Satan and his minions and agents, and to challenge all that is spoken against the living God, and to be salt and light in this world as long as God gives us the breath to do so.
 
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Ricky M

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What "new earth"?
Seriously? Revelations 21 sound unfamiliar to you?

We don't get much detail on this new earth, other than some live in the Holy City of New Jerusalem, while others live in nations outside the Holy City, and these nations and people pursue commerce with those in the City. And that there will be no more death, mourning, or crying.

But, and again this is just conjecture, I can't imagine God would offer us anything less on the New Earth than what we have here on the fallen one. I have to imagine that what we will see, do, explore, and learn on the New Earth will be much greater than what we have here.

But hey I could be wrong ;)
 
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Ricky M

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We are admonished to put on the full armor of God and to keep watch and to pray, and to pray fervently, and as long as we are on this fallen earth, to do as we are admonished to do, and that is, to take down the strongholds of Satan and his minions and agents, and to challenge all that is spoken against the living God, and to be salt and light in this world as long as God gives us the breath to do so.
Right. Exactly.

Which dictates that we should not vote for either of the two major parties, both of which receive their marching orders from the same source and which lead to the same end.
 
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brinny

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Seriously? Revelations 21 sound unfamiliar to you?

We don't get much detail on this new earth, other than some live in the Holy City of New Jerusalem, while others live in nations outside the Holy City, and these nations and people pursue commerce with those in the City. And that there will be no more death, mourning, or crying.

But, and again this is just conjecture, I can't imagine God would offer us anything less on the New Earth than what we have here on the fallen one. I have to imagine that what we will see, do, explore, and learn on the New Earth will be much greater than what we have here.

But hey I could be wrong ;)

It is written that there will be a new heaven and earth. Since this is after sin, death, and the curses of sin are banished and thrown into the lake of fire with Satan and his minions, etc. The new earth would be equivalent to the earth at creation...and an earth WITHOUT sin, and without a "tempter" (Satan).

It will be perfect, as was the earth before the fall.

God will be WITH us, and we will see His face, and He will wipe away all tears. We will be worshiping Him and giving Him praise, as we are reunited with Him, face to face.

As i asked previously, where is it written that we will be taking "classes"?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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So, God told us thousands of years ago where the world will end up... in the hands of the antichrist. With 1/3 of it burnt up and dead. It's the word of God, it's inevitable. No way it's not going to happen.

But - we do all we can to fight it. We cling the the idea that we have to choose the lesser evil of the many paths that lead to that end. That if we don't participate in getting there, we have no one to blame but ourselves when it does.(?) That we are obligated to play along until that final moment when we (hopefully) finally step back and proclaim "he's not my antichrist'.

Global warming. Sure seems like the right thing to fight it. Yet God says this place is going to burn anyway. Can we really stop it?

OK, I can hear you now, oh this guy's just all gloom and doom and pessimism. Next.

But wait a second... do we believe what God says or not? Do we work towards His goals or not? Can we change what He has declared or not?

Now, no matter what I say right now, a lot of you are going to read into these words "so why even try"? But that's not my point.

My point is, what might we be better off investing that time and energy into?

Obviously, it would be much better to enjoy ourselves on vacation and surround ourselves with surf, sun and plenty of blue beach umbrellas. And a good drink... ^_^

Actually, despite my attempt at humor above, I generally agree with your initial OP message. I'll also just concur with you and the rest, "He's not my Anti-Christ!", whomever "he" may actually be, have been, or will be in the future. :cool:

And whether it turns out that we agree or not on all of the incidentals and details, good post, bro!
 
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Ricky M

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It is written that there will be a new heaven and earth. Since this is after sin, death, and the curses of sin are banished and thrown into the lake of fire with Satan and his minions, etc. The new earth would be equivalent to the earth at creation...and an earth WITHOUT sin, and without a "tempter" (Satan).

It will be perfect, as was the earth before the fall.

God will be WITH us, and we will see His face, and He will wipe away all tears. We will be worshiping Him and giving Him praise, as we are reunited with Him, face to face.

As i asked previously, where is it written that we will be taking "classes"?
As I said, my thoughts on this are conjecture. I WOULD like to see if the other poster has anything more solid.

What do you think we will do on the new earth? Where is it written our time will be spent playing harps in the clouds?

God has an amazing imagination. I can't imagine that He ran out of ideas on this earth and has nothing more to offer on the next.
 
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brinny

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brinny said:
We are admonished to put on the full armor of God and to keep watch and to pray, and to pray fervently, and as long as we are on this fallen earth, to do as we are admonished to do, and that is, to take down the strongholds of Satan and his minions and agents, and to challenge all that is spoken against the living God, and to be salt and light in this world as long as God gives us the breath to do so.
Right. Exactly.

Which dictates that we should not vote for either of the two major parties, both of which receive their marching orders from the same source and which lead to the same end.
We are to be salt and light, and to stand for and speak out for those who are being torn from limb and murdered, who cannot defend themselves and cannot speak out for themselves (as one example). We are admonished to do so all throughout God's Word, and in particular, in Isaiah.

We ARE to vote for whoever is willing to fight the good fight. Otherwise we stand by and allow evil to flourish, which is sin and equivalent to turning our heads when evil occurs, dragging the defenseless off to their sure death. This is an abomination to the living God.

We are to be alert and vigilant against evil, and to fight the good fight, etc. THAT is why we are still on this fallen earth.
 
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Ricky M

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We ARE to vote for whoever is willing to fight the good fight.
And who is that?

The democrats agenda is to remove God and promote all kinds of sexual deviancy and abolish personal responsibility.

The republicans serve only one master - mammon.

There may be third party candidates who actually do promote Godly mores, but good luck getting them elected.
 
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brinny

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brinny said:
It is written that there will be a new heaven and earth. Since this is after sin, death, and the curses of sin are banished and thrown into the lake of fire with Satan and his minions, etc. The new earth would be equivalent to the earth at creation...and an earth WITHOUT sin, and without a "tempter" (Satan).

It will be perfect, as was the earth before the fall.

God will be WITH us, and we will see His face, and He will wipe away all tears. We will be worshiping Him and giving Him praise, as we are reunited with Him, face to face.

As i asked previously, where is it written that we will be taking "classes"?
As I said, my thoughts on this are conjecture. I WOULD like to see if the other poster has anything more solid.

What do you think we will do on the new earth? Where is it written our time will be spent playing harps in the clouds?

God has an amazing imagination. I can't imagine that He ran out of ideas on this earth and has nothing more to offer on the next.
As i asked previously, where is it written that we will be taking "classes"?
Where is this written?
Where is it written our time will be spent playing harps in the clouds?
Where in the Bible is this written?
I can't imagine that He ran out of ideas on this earth and has nothing more to offer on the next.
:scratch:

This does not describe the living God of the Bible.

This comes to mind:

iu
 
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2PhiloVoid

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We are to be salt and light, and to stand for and speak out for those who are being torn from limb and murdered, who cannot defend themselves and cannot speak out for themselves (as one example). We are admonished to do so all throughout God's Word, and in particular, in Isaiah.

We ARE to vote for whoever is willing to fight the good fight. Otherwise we stand by and allow evil to flourish, which is sin and equivalent to turning our heads when evil occurs, dragging the defenseless off to their sure death. This is an abomination to the living God.

We are to be alert and vigilant against evil, and to fight the good fight, etc. THAT is why we are still on this fallen earth.

I'm not sure that "fighting the good fight" as Paul directed Timothy....means to wear a red baseball cap with some overly assured slogan. Although, come to think of it, wearing a Purple baseball cap with the slogan, "He's not my Anti-Christ" might be.... (excuse the pun) .... a home-run!

Whad'ya think 'bout that, brinny?
 
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