Question... Was there ever an apology?

timothyu said:

At the time of Constantine, Christianity accepted an offer to become the State religion of a new Roman Empire following a civil war. As a result it abandoned the counter-culture of Jesus' Kingdom, to rejoin the world of man, a world built upon self serving ways and self justification, as a result of the Fall. A religion meant to serve the opposing will of God, joined forces with the will of man, to become a power of man and eventually as it evolved, a worldly empire of it's own.

My question..... Did any Christian institution/denomination ever officially apologize for this traitorous act that anyone knows of? Did any repent of/change their official position and turn from accepting the offer of the Tempter that Jesus rejected, where 'all this could be yours'? Do they carry on like the rest of the governance of man to this day or do they now teach separation between the two worlds as Jesus taught. Will they teach that which condemns their act of joining the world of man and rejecting the Kingdom?

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

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Forgiveness is giving up the wish, for the past to be better.

timothyu said:

At the time of Constantine, Christianity accepted an offer to become the State religion of a new Roman Empire following a civil war. As a result it abandoned the counter-culture of Jesus' Kingdom, to rejoin the world of man, a world built upon self serving ways and self justification, as a result of the Fall. A religion meant to serve the opposing will of God, joined forces with the will of man, to become a power of man and eventually as it evolved, a worldly empire of it's own.

My question..... Did any Christian institution/denomination ever officially apologize for this traitorous act that anyone knows of? Did any repent of/change their official position and turn from accepting the offer of the Tempter that Jesus rejected, where 'all this could be yours'? Do they carry on like the rest of the governance of man to this day or do they now teach separation between the two worlds as Jesus taught. Will they teach that which condemns their act of joining the world of man and rejecting the Kingdom?

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

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The legalization of Christianity was a great triumph for Christians. The risk of being executed for teaching the Gospels was lessened. The Gospels are preserved to this day. Some people who turned to follow Christ received a hundred times more than if they had betrayed. Judas killed himself, for he had done extensive damage and was cursed to his core.

timothyu said:

At the time of Constantine, Christianity accepted an offer to become the State religion of a new Roman Empire following a civil war. As a result it abandoned the counter-culture of Jesus' Kingdom, to rejoin the world of man, a world built upon self serving ways and self justification, as a result of the Fall. A religion meant to serve the opposing will of God, joined forces with the will of man, to become a power of man and eventually as it evolved, a worldly empire of it's own.

My question..... Did any Christian institution/denomination ever officially apologize for this traitorous act that anyone knows of? Did any repent of/change their official position and turn from accepting the offer of the Tempter that Jesus rejected, where 'all this could be yours'? Do they carry on like the rest of the governance of man to this day or do they now teach separation between the two worlds as Jesus taught. Will they teach that which condemns their act of joining the world of man and rejecting the Kingdom?

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

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Interesting question. But as no individual is an institution, that is static, that can then apologise, this idea seems impossible.

I have met people who have repented and come to faith out of many organisations where they were religious but not saved, which is personally the equivalent of what we can do as believers. God bless you

CharismaticLady said:

SDA's blame Constantine for changing the Sabbath to Sunday. Wrong..

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Thank you for making that point. I really dislike when some people twist history to prove their theology.

timothyu said:

At the time of Constantine, Christianity accepted an offer to become the State religion of a new Roman Empire following a civil war. As a result it abandoned the counter-culture of Jesus' Kingdom, to rejoin the world of man, a world built upon self serving ways and self justification, as a result of the Fall. A religion meant to serve the opposing will of God, joined forces with the will of man, to become a power of man and eventually as it evolved, a worldly empire of it's own.

My question..... Did any Christian institution/denomination ever officially apologize for this traitorous act that anyone knows of? Did any repent of/change their official position and turn from accepting the offer of the Tempter that Jesus rejected, where 'all this could be yours'? Do they carry on like the rest of the governance of man to this day or do they now teach separation between the two worlds as Jesus taught. Will they teach that which condemns their act of joining the world of man and rejecting the Kingdom?

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

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I'm waiting for any evidence that that revisionist history is at all accurate.

What a loaded question. Just because Christianity became the state religion doesn't mean there were not still people that wanted utter seperation from the world. That's how monasticism grew. We have thousands upon of completely kingdom bent individuals who take that life, and they influence he rest of us. Sounds like you are judging an entire church based off of some of its members sins.

Whatever the detractors say, the Christian institution became an integral part of the Roman governance, because it became the official religion. We can argue whether it was Constantine, or someone else, but the fact is that it did happen.

The fact is also true that in the widespread adoption of the faith by pagans, the faith endured widespread adoption of pagan practices, sublimated to look like something more Christian, though in its very essence remained entirely pagan.

The fact also remains that while the Christian hierarchy was given special influence over Roman governance, it came at the cost of the Roman governance having undue influence over our anointed hierarchy.

The fact also remains that this problem is not limited to Roman Catholicism, which often takes more than its share of the stigma. It extended, in fact, to all of formalized Christendom throughout the Mediterranean at the time, as well as to regions later reached by this institution.

The fact remains that the pagan influences were never purged from these formal institutions.

And, as the OP pointed out, the official merger of secular governance and church governance looks an awful lot like one of the temptations of Christ. Where he passed, we failed.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

The fact is also true that in the widespread adoption of the faith by pagans, the faith endured widespread adoption of pagan practices, sublimated to look like something more Christian, though in its very essence remained entirely pagan.

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The very essence became Christian. Having similar holidays does not mean that the church was overcome with Paganism. Most of Catholic Christianities "pagan" traditions are either based on Judaism, or on the fulfillment of monotheistic Greek philosophy. The small cultural things that remained hardly mattered because they had the polytheistic narrative taken from them. People seem to think that Paganism is bad because it is "religious", but Paganism was primarily bad because it was a corruption of true worship, and the worship of false God's. Remove those two things and whatever remains is perfectly fine.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

The fact also remains that while the Christian hierarchy was given special influence over Roman governance, it came at the cost of the Roman governance having undue influence over our anointed hierarchy.

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Where? The only times this happened they were later routed out as heresy. That's why the council system was so effective. It prevented one person from changing anything.

What would you have the Bishops at the time of Constantine exactly? Spit in Constantine's face?

timothyu said:

My question..... Did any Christian institution/denomination ever officially apologize for this traitorous act that anyone knows of?

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To add more context before answering your question. The Church becomes first tolerated, then official, and then finally the sole legal religion, except for Judaism, by order of the Emperor Theodosius the Great in 393, not Constantine. During the reign of Theodosius much heresy was rejected such as Arianism, Manichaeism , Gnosticism etc. and the Trinity was solidified. This is not a bad thing. After this Christianity grew with government, as its protector in one sense and as its corrupter in another sense.
So what happen to “the simple Jesus” and the “primitive Christian faith” that many Christians long for? Well, IMO, it does not exist in an institution or a denomination. It exists in the heart of the believer. This never "went away". That being said, no apology required. Salvation is an individual and personal experience. Though along the way traditions of men laid stains upon the purity of the Gospel, the Gospel lives on in the Body of Christ and not in any institution or denomination.
Blessings

timothyu said:

At the time of Constantine, Christianity accepted an offer to become the State religion of a new Roman Empire following a civil war. As a result it abandoned the counter-culture of Jesus' Kingdom, to rejoin the world of man, a world built upon self serving ways and self justification, as a result of the Fall. A religion meant to serve the opposing will of God, joined forces with the will of man, to become a power of man and eventually as it evolved, a worldly empire of it's own.

My question..... Did any Christian institution/denomination ever officially apologize for this traitorous act that anyone knows of? Did any repent of/change their official position and turn from accepting the offer of the Tempter that Jesus rejected, where 'all this could be yours'? Do they carry on like the rest of the governance of man to this day or do they now teach separation between the two worlds as Jesus taught. Will they teach that which condemns their act of joining the world of man and rejecting the Kingdom?

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

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Many Christians of those days compromised their faith.

Ecclesiastes 1:9
New International Version
What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

Did any Christian institution/denomination ever officially apologize for this traitorous act that anyone knows of?

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No ... but later on much of it was protested (reformation happened) and changes did happen.

timothyu said:

Thank you for an actual yes or no.
Back in Constantine's time Christianity was pretty well whittled down to one organization. Today it has branched out into thousands of sects. For the most part have they remained loyal to the original amalgamation with the world of man or did they return to Kingdom over mankind, teaching it's members to live opposite the traditional ways of man. If it is the latter how successful has the loving all as self movement been?

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During Constantine's time, the Christians compromised their faith .... and a amalgamation of beliefs did occur ... then later in history when Constantine died .... another amalgamation took place .... (the union of church and state) ... then of course later we have the Council of Trent.

Amalgamations' have been ongoing and are ongoing today ... but the root of it all is christians compromising their faith.

People really ought to re-visit the reformation and the counter reformation ... read about Constantine, Francisco Ribera, LaCunza etc.

old secular saying ..

'Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.'

and so it is

timothyu said:

Yes, so man's worldly law overrode God's law of the Kingdom.

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Not overrode, but for possibly the first time to a step to align itself with God's Law.

Two questions:

1. Do you believe that man's law is always (100%) in opposition to God's Law?

2. Are you a theocrat?

timothyu said:

Not since the days of the prophets. Jesus told Pilate “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above." That did not mean rulers have approval of God. It just meant in that case of convicting Jesus Pilate was allowed to condemn. What would be the purpose of leaders to God who do not love all as self and seek gain at the expense of others, except to be used as examples of anti-Christ ways. God gives us a choice... their will or His.

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Paul disagrees:

Romans 13:1 [Full Chapter]
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.

timothyu said:

At the time of Constantine, Christianity accepted an offer to become the State religion of a new Roman Empire following a civil war. As a result it abandoned the counter-culture of Jesus' Kingdom, to rejoin the world of man, a world built upon self serving ways and self justification, as a result of the Fall. A religion meant to serve the opposing will of God, joined forces with the will of man, to become a power of man and eventually as it evolved, a worldly empire of it's own.

My question..... Did any Christian institution/denomination ever officially apologize for this traitorous act that anyone knows of? Did any repent of/change their official position and turn from accepting the offer of the Tempter that Jesus rejected, where 'all this could be yours'? Do they carry on like the rest of the governance of man to this day or do they now teach separation between the two worlds as Jesus taught. Will they teach that which condemns their act of joining the world of man and rejecting the Kingdom?

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Click to expand...

This is interesting, and I appreciate the thoughts in the OP, but am I as a Christian supposed to apologize for what transmuted politically about 1,700 years ago?

Of course, I'm not implying that your initial evaluation doesn't have some 'teeth' to it, but Christian History, such as it has been, could be seen in a more prophetic way. Besides, it's not as if God has wanted Christians to have absolutely NO political influence in the world at all times. We can look at the political and moral patterns judged by Christ over the Churches of Thyatira and Sardis in Revelation as examples of how all of this might mix together and what God's overall kind of evaluation of it would be.