Whats the next best thing to be if you are not a christian?

Aryeh Jay said:

No, I had grown up a secular Jew and became orthodox when I was 20. By then I had been in the military 3 years and it was harder for them to convince me that non-Jews were as bad as they thought. I did pull my kids out of Orthodox Jewish school once they tried to brainwash them and enrolled them in a Conservative one.

Click to expand...

I understand that and sympathize with that. But the difference between a traditionalist and a fundamentalist is that the traditionalist is an antirationalist kind of conservative who holds to beliefs and practices of ancient pedigree, whereas a fundamentalist is a highly rationalist reformer who is trying to recover a putatively lost doctrine (and that's where the focus is; reformed practices rationally flow from doctrine). I admit my experience with Orthodox Jews is not as extensive as yours. And it is also true that Judaism in general drifts more towards rationalism than other religions. But what I have seen--and I regularly witnessed both Shabbos and weekday afternoon home life for close to a year as part of a case I worked--was greater emphasis placed on a tradition that is professed to have never been lost.

dms1972 said:

I'd say someone committed to following Christ no matter what the cost.

Click to expand...

Seems to me like the evil one is trying to scare you away. Being a Christian is a journey and it starts with baby steps. Becoming a Christian is about following Jesus and that means asking him to take your sins to start with, not about being perfect or strong. God knows we are weak frail creatures.

Remember what Jesus said to Peter?
Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you that this night, before the rooster crows, you will deny Me three times.” Did Peter follow no matter the cost? No he did not, he got scared and ran away. Did Jesus toss peter aside because of this? No he did not.
Look over to John 21, Jesus asks Simon Peter if he loves him 3 times then he said He said to him, “Tend My sheep.” The man who denied him 3 times is tasked with tending to other believers.

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Nothing else is second best.

dms1972 said:

I know some may object to the question itself, and please reply if you do object for i want to hear those.

But I got to wondering if one cannot make the transition to be a fully fledged christian (and thats what I struggle with) is there something else I can convert to on the way.

The reason I think some may object is because they will say there is no next best, if you are not trusting in Jesus Christ, you are lost, and when you die it doesn't matter what your philosophy of life was, you will find yourself in a lost eternity. I understand that view. But I still struggle with becoming a christian. I am beginning to think I might be an ex-christian but again some will likely object to that term "ex-christian" because they believe in the perseverance of the saints, and they would say such people never were born-again to begin with.

Anyway what ever your take even if you are critical of the question please respond as I want to hear all views.

Click to expand...

Well I looked into Taoism, philosophical Taoism that is when I was young.

dms1972 said:

What sort of Hegelian was Hegel?

Click to expand...

As I understand, that's subject to debate. I've not personally read Hegel, so I have no opinion.

dms1972 said:

From what i understand the Right Hegelians or Young Hegelians took his ideas and developed them to accord with christian theology. I am not well read in this area but it would be interesting to know how they dealt with Hegel's view of the Fall, which for him apparently was a fall upwards (doesn't make much sense)

Also I noticed in your list you did not mention Existentialism which has some christian forms (eg. Kierkegarrd, Buber)

Click to expand...

Ha! Well, there are too many philosophies! I prefer to stick to rating religions (and ways of liberation, if you prefer to style Far Eastern thought that way).

Aryeh Jay said:

They would be the extremists and all of the 9/11 hijackers were Wahhabis but not all Wahhabis become terrorists.

Click to expand...

Of course that true.

dms1972 said:

I know some may object to the question itself, and please reply if you do object for i want to hear those.

But I got to wondering if one cannot make the transition to be a fully fledged christian (and thats what I struggle with) is there something else I can convert to on the way.

The reason I think some may object is because they will say there is no next best, if you are not trusting in Jesus Christ, you are lost, and when you die it doesn't matter what your philosophy of life was, you will find yourself in a lost eternity. I understand that view. But I still struggle with becoming a christian. I am beginning to think I might be an ex-christian but again some will likely object to that term "ex-christian" because they believe in the perseverance of the saints, and they would say such people never were born-again to begin with.

Anyway what ever your take even if you are critical of the question please respond as I want to hear all views.

Click to expand...

There's no "good enough" alternative option that will result in your salvation. As far as the kind of person I would like to meet on the street, be courteous, kind, and reasonable.

It depends on your philosophy of life and intellectual leaning.

Do you need a personal God or are yu ok with an abstraction?

Must this God be totally separate from you or are you ok with being a part or manifestation of it?

How much of the Bible do you want to take literally or even seriously?

How interested are you on nonChristian religions?

ToBeLoved said:

I wouldn’t describe it as a reward to an afterlife.

There are a lot of advantages in life too.

For me, having god to pray to and the reward of having a relationship with the god who created me. To know that I am not just a random accident, but have been created by God for a relationship in this life, to be adopted as a son/daughter and to be a co-heir with Christ to the Father. That my relationship with God will continue for all eternity and that I will reside with God in heaven, free from sin, sickness and pain.

Another reward in life is we are building His Kingdom in heaven. In the future, I would like my friends and family and all people to accept God’s precious gift. To have the relationship with god I have and have eternal life.

That is the most simple way of putting it.

Does that make sense?

Click to expand...

It makes total sense, it just seems incredibly self-serving. ME, ME, ME all the way.

I just think someone who devotes themselves to the welfare of others is better than someone who focuses on their own salvation, their own relationship with God, their own sense that they are not an accident. Certainly there are many Christians of whom this - the devotion to others - is also true. It just does not appear to be a prerequisite of Christian behaviour. (I base that on my personal observations and upon many of the views expressed by Christians on this forum.)

Ophiolite said:

It makes total sense, it just seems incredibly self-serving. ME, ME, ME all the way ... I just think someone who devotes themselves to the welfare of others is better than someone who focuses on their own salvation ...

Click to expand...

It is good to help others, but the fact is, we help others because it makes us feel better in some way. It still comes back to the self.

ananda said:

It is good to help others, but the fact is, we help others because it makes us feel better in some way. It still comes back to the self.

Click to expand...

I accept that is true to a degree. Indeed, there are some individuals for whom this is the only reason for behaving so. They adopt a martyr's pose: "look at the sacrifice I am making".

But I believe - and it can only be an opinion, hopefully informed - that there are individuals whose primary focus is upon the wellbeing of those they act on behalf of. Yes, they derive satisfaction in doing so, but it is a secondary benefit.

Ophiolite said:

I accept that is true to a degree. Indeed, there are some individuals for whom this is the only reason for behaving so. They adopt a martyr's pose: "look at the sacrifice I am making".

But I believe - and it can only be an opinion, hopefully informed - that there are individuals whose primary focus is upon the wellbeing of those they act on behalf of. Yes, they derive satisfaction in doing so, but it is a secondary benefit.

Click to expand...

Has that been your personal experience?

In my own experience, I realize that I help others if I perceive how it helps "me"*, makes "me" feel better, or prevents "me" from feeling worse. I see this in others around me as well, and it seems to be the only explanation as to why we help some & don't invest resources in helping the many, many billions others in the world who are also in need of help.

*I put "me" in quotes because, in Buddhism, the sense of self often includes our family, relatives, loved ones, friends, etc. We seek to help them because they are all to some relative degree part of our own identity, and if harm comes to them, it harms "me". Our help extends to them to the degree we feel they are part of our self.

Ophiolite said:

I accept that is true to a degree. Indeed, there are some individuals for whom this is the only reason for behaving so. They adopt a martyr's pose: "look at the sacrifice I am making".

But I believe - and it can only be an opinion, hopefully informed - that there are individuals whose primary focus is upon the wellbeing of those they act on behalf of. Yes, they derive satisfaction in doing so, but it is a secondary benefit.

Click to expand...

I don’t think people for the most part are self aware enough for this to happen much.

dms1972 said:

I know some may object to the question itself, and please reply if you do object for i want to hear those.

But I got to wondering if one cannot make the transition to be a fully fledged christian (and thats what I struggle with) is there something else I can convert to on the way.

The reason I think some may object is because they will say there is no next best, if you are not trusting in Jesus Christ, you are lost, and when you die it doesn't matter what your philosophy of life was, you will find yourself in a lost eternity. I understand that view. But I still struggle with becoming a christian. I am beginning to think I might be an ex-christian but again some will likely object to that term "ex-christian" because they believe in the perseverance of the saints, and they would say such people never were born-again to begin with.

Anyway what ever your take even if you are critical of the question please respond as I want to hear all views.

Click to expand...

To be attending at church as the friendly agnostic/atheist/what ever, chalenging the preacher on his reasoning, use of scripture, taking part in the life of the church in every way.

Otherwise there is no other 2nd best.
If you have given up on Christianity, what advice do you want.
You have rejected life and accepted death.

A Christian-seeker.

dms1972 said:

I know some may object to the question itself, and please reply if you do object for i want to hear those.

But I got to wondering if one cannot make the transition to be a fully fledged christian (and thats what I struggle with) is there something else I can convert to on the way.

The reason I think some may object is because they will say there is no next best, if you are not trusting in Jesus Christ, you are lost, and when you die it doesn't matter what your philosophy of life was, you will find yourself in a lost eternity. I understand that view. But I still struggle with becoming a christian. I am beginning to think I might be an ex-christian but again some will likely object to that term "ex-christian" because they believe in the perseverance of the saints, and they would say such people never were born-again to begin with.

Anyway what ever your take even if you are critical of the question please respond as I want to hear all views.

Click to expand...

You could be someone who believes in these:

Mark 12:31 ...'Love your neighbor as yourself.' ..."

Matthew 7:12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the Prophets.

21 ...Then Peter came to him and asked, “Lord, how often should I forgive someone who sins against me? Seven times?”
Matthew 18:22 Jesus answered, "I tell you, not just seven times, but seventy-seven times!
and
"...forgive your brother or sister from your heart." (verse 35)

Those are something you could believe in.

They make life good.

And once you believe in those, you can want to know more of what Jesus said... that's very reasonable.
I'd suggest the NIV version. It's ok to start reading in Matthew where Christ starts to speak, if you like. Some of these words can take a lifetime to really get.
Matthew 3 NIV

Occams Barber said:

Your question intrinsically assumes that being a Christian is 'the best thing'. Firstly you need to define 'best' and, secondly, provide at least some argument about how Christianity qualifies as 'best'.
OB

Click to expand...

Matthew 16 New International Version (NIV)
The Demand for a Sign

16 The Pharisees and Sadducees came to Jesus and tested him by asking him to show them a sign from heaven.

2 He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’ 3 and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.[a] 4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away.


5 When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6 “Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

7 They discussed this among themselves and said, “It is because we didn’t bring any bread.”

8 Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”

23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”
==================================================

King James Bible
Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Christian Standard Bible
Simon Peter answered, "Lord, to whom will we go? You have the words of eternal life.

Contemporary English Version
Simon Peter answered, "Lord, there is no one else that we can go to! Your words give eternal life.

dms1972 said:

I know some may object to the question itself, and please reply if you do object for i want to hear those.

But I got to wondering if one cannot make the transition to be a fully fledged christian (and thats what I struggle with) is there something else I can convert to on the way.

The reason I think some may object is because they will say there is no next best, if you are not trusting in Jesus Christ, you are lost, and when you die it doesn't matter what your philosophy of life was, you will find yourself in a lost eternity. I understand that view. But I still struggle with becoming a christian. I am beginning to think I might be an ex-christian but again some will likely object to that term "ex-christian" because they believe in the perseverance of the saints, and they would say such people never were born-again to begin with.

Anyway what ever your take even if you are critical of the question please respond as I want to hear all views.

Click to expand...

I think Sikh is very okay. Unless you live in the USA, then people think you're a muslim and harass you, of course.

The best thing to be is yourself. But my reasoning is "the closer you are to God the more you are your truest self, because God created us near himself". Sometimes "Christian" is just an outermost appearance. God judges the inner man and he is justice itself, which is not something separated from kindness or wisdom.

We deny or confess christ chiefly with the being that we are. Notice how that does not deny his claims. Christian tribalism is a work of the flesh. God is universal.