LDS LDS Jesus Could Have Lost His Godhood

mmksparbud said:

God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit always existed, nothing else. He alone is immortal.
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

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(New Testament | John 11:25 - 26)

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Phoebe Ann said:

Women are not in a position like men. I'm not a feminist, I'm not a career woman, and I never wanted to be a minister, nor do I feel comfortable in a church with a female preacher. But Mormonism talks about family and ignores their "Heavenly Mother." Mormon women have nothing to look forward to in your heaven --- nothing!

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Women members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints have more to look forward to that women of any other denomination.

Phoebe Ann said:

Yes, there are many false gods in Mormonism. It makes me sick to think about it and to think of how many people are deceived.

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(Old Testament | Psalms 82:1)

1 GOD standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

(New Testament | John 10:34)

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

It's quite obvious that in Mormonism, a Biblical Scripture quoted can't be taken at face value other than as being in context coming from a twisted falsehood from the wolf in sheep's clothing.

Phoebe Ann said:

The question isn't about people that God made and proclaimed righteous thousands of years ago.




Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

You can't make yourself righteous and you can't earn it. People can't walk blameless unless God makes the sinner a new creation setting that person free from the power if Satan.



You have three physically separate gods who earned their positions at different times.

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Are there three persons in the godhead?

dzheremi said:

What on earth? What was the heavenly father resurrected from, exactly?

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The same thing that Jesus Christ was resurrected from.
(New Testament | Philippians 2:7 - 9)

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

He is the way said:

The same thing that Jesus Christ was resurrected from.
(New Testament | Philippians 2:7 - 9)

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

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What? I literally have no idea how this relates to the idea of your god the father figure being resurrected.

Do you just not know what the word 'resurrection' means? (Serious question)

Phoebe Ann said:

Your disagreement with truth doesn't change what is true.

The word translated gods has various meanings.

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Just saying something does not make it truth. So tell me the meanings of the word God in the Greek language.

twin.spin said:

It's quite obvious that in Mormonism, a Biblical Scripture quoted can't be taken at face value other than as being in context coming from a twisted falsehood from the wolf in sheep's clothing.

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We don't twist the scriptures.

dzheremi said:

What? I literally have no idea how this relates to the idea of your god the father figure being resurrected.

Do you just not know what the word 'resurrection' means? (Serious question)

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Yes it means that God the Father was born, died, and was resurrected from the dead. That is the way we will also have a spiritual resurrected body of flesh and bone:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:22 - 29)

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Phoebe Ann said:

Women are not in a position like men. I'm not a feminist, I'm not a career woman, and I never wanted to be a minister, nor do I feel comfortable in a church with a female preacher. But Mormonism talks about family and ignores their "Heavenly Mother." Mormon women have nothing to look forward to in your heaven --- nothing!

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Wow, are you misinformed. With all your supposed study of Moromonism and come up with a statement like that, you should be ashamed.

dzheremi said:

What on earth? What was the heavenly father resurrected from, exactly?

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He was resurrected from a mortal body of flesh and blood.

In fact if He had not been resurrected, neither would Jesus, His Son have been resurrected.
Because Jesus could do nothing of himself. He only did those things that he saw his Father do.
Think about that statement from Jesus just for a second and let it sink in.
John 5:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Look at the final words of this scripture: FOR WHAT THINGS SOEVER HE (God the Father) DOETH, THESE ALSO DOETH THE SON (Jesus) LIKEWISE.

So the logical conclusion of this scripture is this:

If the Father was not God, Jesus could not have been God.
If the Father did not experience a human existence, Jesus would not have been able to experience a human existence.
If the Father had not healed people from the sick, and raised people from the dead, Jesus would not have been able to heal people from the sick, and raise people from the dead.
If the Father did not overcome the world, Jesus would not have been able to overcome the world.
If the Father did not get resurrected, Jesus would not have the been resurrected.

Jesus did only those things that HE SAW the Father do.
WHAT DID JESUS SEE HIS FATHER DO?? THE SAME THINGS THAT HE DID.
AND WE KNOW WHAT HE DID. NOW WE KNOW WHAT THE FATHER DID TOO.

Yes, I understand the full ramifications of this doctrine. But this doctrine boils down to this. As Paul says very distinctly, "(as there are gods many and lords many), but to us there is but one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ." These we worship and no other, for ever and ever.
1 Corinthians 8:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

He is the way said:

We don't twist the scriptures.

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Taking post (932) as the latest example … its so obvious that it's incontrovertible even with the slightest unbiased Mormon reading glasses.

twin.spin said:

Taking post (932) as the latest example … its so obvious that it's incontrovertible even with the slightest unbiased Mormon reading glasses.

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The scriptures back up our beliefs. Where do the scriptures say that God made the universe out of nothing? Where do the scriptures say that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are of the same substance?

twin.spin said:

Taking post (932) as the latest example … its so obvious that it's incontrovertible even with the slightest unbiased Mormon reading glasses.

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I can see how you could somewhat claim twisting about these scriptures.

But a good sloooow reeading of the scripture and a mature discussion of the content could lead you to an understanding that before this has gone straight over your head without any impact.

I challenge you to give me your untwisted Christian interpretation of these 2 scriptures. That would be interesting.

Peter1000 said:

Only One that is immortal can be divine.

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Right, and only God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are immortal. Adam and Eve were not created immortal---none of the angels are immortal. Only God.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

They were dependent on the tree of life for their immortality. After the resurrection, the saved get thsat tree and water if life again.

Rev_2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Rev_22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

He is the way said:

The scriptures back up our beliefs. Where do the scriptures say that God made the universe out of nothing? Where do the scriptures say that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are of the same substance?

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You have been given those scrioptures over and over and still you ask the same question. "There is none so blind as those who will not see." Our God is not some anemic, weakling that can't produce children of His own substasnce, that needs a wife, that needs a father and mother, that had to become god of this world only and can't create from nothing. The real God of the bible is all powerfull, can create from nothing, needs no mother or father or wife, is the God of the entire universe and chose to produce only One Son of His own substance. (By His own choice, Jesus chose to become human and altered that same substance but still retains divinity). Go back to the endless times those verses have been posted and read them again---I'm tired of repesting the same thing over and over.

He is the way said:

(New Testament | John 11:25 - 26)

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

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You ability to not know what the bible says is beyond description.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph_3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
2Ti_1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.
1Pe_4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
oh_5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh_10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh_12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Joh_17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh_17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Rom_2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom_5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Ti_6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1Ti_6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Tit_1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Tit_3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1Jn_1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
1Jn_2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1Jn_5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1Jn_5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Jud_1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

That is our reward!! Eternal life is His gift to us, not by right of birth, but by His power to give us that eternal life through the tree and water of life that we will get back. We become His adopted children through baptism and are heirs to eternal life from the day we accept Him. Christians do not die---we sleep until Jesus returns for us and takes us home. (Yes, there are those that believe we get our reward of eternal life at death, I believe what Jesus says, that we sleep and when He comes His reward is with Him. That subject is for another thread.)

mmksparbud said:

You have been given those scrioptures over and over and still you ask the same question. "There is none so blind as those who will not see." Our God is not some anemic, weakling that can't produce children of His own substasnce, that needs a wife, that needs a father and mother, that had to become god of this world only and can't create from nothing. The real God of the bible is all powerfull, can create from nothing, needs no mother or father or wife, is the God of the entire universe and chose to produce only One Son of His own substance. (By His own choice, Jesus chose to become human and altered that same substance but still retains divinity). Go back to the endless times those verses have been posted and read them again---I'm tired of repesting the same thing over and over.

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The universe is NOT made out of nothing, neither is God nothing. There is no scripture that stated that the universe is created out of nothing. It is a man made concept. You continue to twist the scriptures to mean what you want them to mean. God formed the universe out of matter that already existed. God has enough power to make Gods out of His children. Eve is in the image of her Mother. Angels are spirits and have spirit bodies made of matter:

(New Testament | Hebrews 1:13 - 14)

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

He is the way said:

The universe is NOT made out of nothing, neither is God nothing. There is no scripture that stated that the universe is created out of nothing. It is a man made concept. You continue to twist the scriptures to mean what you want them to mean. God formed the universe out of matter that already existed. God has enough power to make Gods out of His children. Eve is in the image of her Mother. Angels are spirits and have spirit bodies made of matter:

(New Testament | Hebrews 1:13 - 14)

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

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You quote me the scriptures that state God created out of matter that already existed. You can not point to any scriptures that says any of your believes. Your god is a pretty weak excuse for a god---He is no God, He can't do anything. Ours can. Yours produces children that are not of His own substance and requires some sort of undescribed, unnamed wife to produce some sort of floating, plasmic fog which have to be changed into humans to become anything of value. God's creations were created to be what they are---angels, which are messengers of God, humans were created to be human, and His Son was always with Him and is of His own substance. Your God claims to be able to make humans divine when He can't even make His supposedly divine children, able to spend eternity with unless they become human for some ungodly reason. Ours makes no claim to make us divine, He does claim us as His adopted children and heirs with His Son for eternity with him, all the saved, not just a select few who can have a planet and some wives to produce more children that are sinners and have to be saved----our God saves all for eternity to be with Him and wipes out sin completely and forever. There is no reason to believe in your God, who could possibly want worlds to continue to exist with sin in which again someone has to die to save them? Planets and planets full of horribly sinful people, murderers, child molesters and rapists, thieves--more of this horror---our God will wipe it all away forever. Your god has nothing I want.