My Question

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Yahuweh's Appointed Sanctified Day is not affected by the wrong teachings of the Judaizers ....

Click to expand...

I think it would be best for those who observe similar festivals, rituals, ceremonies, beads, robes, funny hats, candles, and special days, to staple the pages of Galatians together and not pay any heed to what Paul said in them because he clearly refuted any religious system that involved these external observances. The problem is that they could say, "We know what Paul said in Galatians, but that is not what he really meant". Many religious people do the same. Instead of accepting what was said literally in the Bible, they try to sidestep it and come up with some other interpretation that suits them.

Oscarr said:

There was no actual instruction. It said that they met on the first day of the week. It is a description of which day they met for worship, that's all.

Click to expand...

And they met together daily, every day of the week, seven days a week, at times.
Tradition tries to emphasize different points and 'conveniently leaves out other points when trying to (and effectively) promoting ways other than Yahuweh's Way in Jesus.

Oscarr said:

Instead of accepting what was said literally in the Bible, they try to sidestep it and come up with some other interpretation that suits them.

Click to expand...

Isn't this the same for almost all religious types , from (if there is such) 'mildly' in error to entirely in error ?
I think no one has to think up ("come up with") some other interpretation these days because it was already done for them centuries ago, at least many times it seems.

Michael Vichiola said:

But then if we're still obliged to obey the 10 commandments (Majority of people think that) which ones do we keep? If the sabbath is still included, then why aren't Christians doing it? Explain this to me.

Click to expand...

??
Corrie ten Boom did not keep the Sanctified Appointed Day set by the Father in Genesis.
Yet her testimony and life was abundantly more faithful and seen as such by believers and by unbelievers too....
Likewise Keith Green, David Wilkerson, Watchman Nee, and many others....

What specifically was needed , or rather what did the Father in Heaven direct ? We might not be able to find out or to state what or why the Father did so, but always continue to trust the Father in heaven for everything concerning Salvation in Jesus....

If someone has several fingers chopped off in an accident, to use a physical example however poor,
they would not be expected to be able to cut as many cords of firewood as someone else who has all their fingers .... (again, sorry - I know this is a poor example, but it came to mind as a simple illustration of different requirements for different people ) ...

ChristianForCats said:

There is a verse in the NT that instructs Christians to worship God "on the first day of the week."

I heard during a sermon services are on Sunday because the Resurrection was on that day, not Saturday.

Click to expand...

What verse?

(almost) All major Christian denominations will freely admit that the Sabbath of the 4th commandment as given by God at Sinai - and as established in Gen 2:1-3 is the day of the week for what we today call "saturday".

Click to expand...

I agree with that.

(almost) All major Christian denominations will freely admit that Jesus was raised on the "first day of the week" which is the day of the week we call Sunday.

Click to expand...

I agree with that too.

I don't agree that Sunday is the sabbath and I don't believe we are under a sabbath at all anymore. If someone says we are under the sabbath as a requirement then they better open the Old Testament and be sure they are keeping all the other laws too. Don't cherry-pick one, or cherry-pick the ten Commandments. Those under the law were under ALL the laws. This includes “Make tassels on the four corners of the cloak you wear.” and Do not plant two kinds of seed in your vineyard; if you do, not only the crops you plant but also the fruit of the vineyard will be defiled” and “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain” etc.

Everyday should be treated as a sabbath because everyday we are meant to rest in Christ. We are not in bondage to works or laws. When gentiles began to be saved they said “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood” (Acts 15:19-20). Sabbath keeping was not one of the commands and if it had been as important as some suggest it is, I am sure it would have been included.
When did the early Christians meet? Acts 2:46-47 “Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts."
If you want to keep a sabbath that is up to you. Colossians 2:16-17 “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.”
But you are not under it as a law and you should not judge someone who keeps a different day or all days as equal.
Romans
1Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

5One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; [a]and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Isn't this the same for almost all religious types , from (if there is such) 'mildly' in error to entirely in error ?
I think no one has to think up ("come up with") some other interpretation these days because it was already done for them centuries ago, at least many times it seems.

Click to expand...

Absolutely!

Having a background in the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement I have come up against all the interpretations that have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous!

It turns out the Scritpure reads we are to tithe and hold the Lord's Supper on Sunday.

1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of every week, each of you should set aside a portion of his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will be needed.

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Since Paul was ready to leave the next day, he talked to them and kept on speaking until midnight.

Two things we only do at church, of course, are donate money and break bread in communion.

Michael Vichiola said:

There seems to be an ongoing debate about which day the sabbath is. I'm told it is Sunday, and then when I go do research, a good majority of it says Saturday. Now I'm having question marks bouncing around my head because I don't know whos right and whos wrong. If Jesus took the law with him to the cross, wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Or actually no wait... If the entire 10 commandments still apply to Christians, then why is the sabbath still Saturday? Isn't it Sunday? I am literally confused.

Click to expand...

Your under a new covenant now and you are not under the law. The following verses state beyond any question that we are not under the law. If you want to put yourself under the law you need to interpret the scripture so it reads differently.

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law.

Galatians 2:19
19 For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Ephesians 2:15
By abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace.

1 Timothy 1:9
Realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers.

Hebrews 7:18-19
For on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness for the Law made nothing perfect, and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was.

Oscarr said:

Absolutely!

Having a background in the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement I have come up against all the interpretations that have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous!

Click to expand...

All the difficulty arises from various interpretations. In other words not reading the text the way it was written.

ChristianForCats said:

It turns out the Scritpure reads we are to tithe and hold the Lord's Supper on Sunday.

1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of every week, each of you should set aside a portion of his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will be needed.

Click to expand...

https://biblehub.com/greek/1096.htm
If you read the verses around it, you will see that this collection was for a particular purpose - to provide for the Christians in Jerusalem who were suffering financial loss and famine. Paul was not talking about tithing, which was abolished along with the ceremonies, Passover, Sabbath, priesthood, and rituals of Judiasm when Jesus died on the cross. There is no teaching on tithing in the New Covenant. Giving money is always on the basis of the freewill offering and donation.

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Since Paul was ready to leave the next day, he talked to them and kept on speaking until midnight.

Two things we only do at church, of course, are donate money and break bread in communion.

Click to expand...

There was no absolute requirement and instruction that Christians should come together to worship on the first day of the week. The day itself carries no significance in the way that Judaism observed days, weeks, months and years as part of their external ceremonial religious observance. It is just the particular day that they decided to have their worship, seeing that as Gentiles, every other day was a work day.

klutedavid said:

Your under a new covenant now and you are not under the law. The following verses state beyond any question that we are not under the law. If you want to put yourself under the law you need to interpret the scripture so it reads differently.

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law.

Galatians 2:19
19 For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Ephesians 2:15
By abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace.

1 Timothy 1:9
Realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers.

Hebrews 7:18-19
For on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness for the Law made nothing perfect, and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was.

Click to expand...

We have to draw a distinction between the ceremonial Mosaic Law and God's moral Law which is a reflection of His nature and character. The Mosaic ceremonial Law consisted in sacrifices, Levitical Priesthood, dietary Laws, ceremonies, rituals, Sabbaths, Passovers. The ripping of the great temple curtain separating the holy of holies from the rest of the temple signaled the total abolition of all these things.

But God's moral remains because it is the nature of God Himself. Unconverted sinners are under the curse of God because they cannot keep that moral law. Christians are saved because Jesus kept that Law perfectly and so He took the penalty for all those who had faith alone in Him. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit causes a total transformation of heart and will, from rebelling against God and His moral Law to loving it and wanting to follow it from the heart.

The truly converted believer mourns because he cannot keep the moral law in the way he in his heart wants to. He is conscious of the battle between the flesh and the Spirit. The unconverted sinner has no such battle because He is in bondage to sin and cannot will otherwise. True conversion to Christ releases the will from bondage, giving it freedom to follow Christ and the ways of righteousness. Following righteousness becomes a pleasure and a joy because his will is transformed from rebelliousness to surrender to God and His will.

Oscarr said:

We have to draw a distinction between the ceremonial Mosaic Law and God's moral Law which is a reflection of His nature and character. The Mosaic ceremonial Law consisted in sacrifices, Levitical Priesthood, dietary Laws, ceremonies, rituals, Sabbaths, Passovers. The ripping of the great temple curtain separating the holy of holies from the rest of the temple signaled the total abolition of all these things.

But God's moral remains because it is the nature of God Himself. Unconverted sinners are under the curse of God because they cannot keep that moral law. Christians are saved because Jesus kept that Law perfectly and so He took the penalty for all those who had faith alone in Him. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit causes a total transformation of heart and will, from rebelling against God and His moral Law to loving it and wanting to follow it from the heart.

The truly converted believer mourns because he cannot keep the moral law in the way he in his heart wants to. He is conscious of the battle between the flesh and the Spirit. The unconverted sinner has no such battle because He is in bondage to sin and cannot will otherwise. True conversion to Christ releases the will from bondage, giving it freedom to follow Christ and the ways of righteousness. Following righteousness becomes a pleasure and a joy because his will is transformed from rebelliousness to surrender to God and His will.

Click to expand...

I believe you are on the right track, but I do have one comment. Most SDAs and Messianics split the 10 commandments from the remainder of the Law and call them moral law. the remainder of the covenant law they deem as ceremonial. There are many moral concepts in the part of the law that Moses wrote in the book of the law. When you refer to the moral law those people immediately think of the 10 which I don't believe after reading all your posts you are trying to portray. 2Cor3:6-11 is very plain in telling us that the 10 commandments were temporary and the KJV tells us they were done away. All mankind is under the new and better covenant of Grace and Love. The 10 were replaced by the Holy Spirit as the guide of all who live on the face of this Earth.

Bob S said:

I believe you are on the right track, but I do have one comment. Most SDAs and Messianics split the 10 commandments from the remainder of the Law and call them moral law. the remainder of the covenant law they deem as ceremonial. There are many moral concepts in the part of the law that Moses wrote in the book of the law. When you refer to the moral law those people immediately think of the 10 which I don't believe after reading all your posts you are trying to portray. 2Cor3:6-11 is very plain in telling us that the 10 commandments were temporary and the KJV tells us they were done away. All mankind is under the new and better covenant of Grace and Love. The 10 were replaced by the Holy Spirit as the guide of all who live on the face of this Earth.

Click to expand...

Yes. The Ten Commandments sum up God's moral law. They will always be set before us as God's standards for holy living. Jesus also summed them up by saying that we should love God with all our hearts, and love our neighbor as ourselves. If we look at the list of the Law in Deuteronomy, the list is divided up in how we should love God and love others, so failure in any part of that list is a failure in either loving God or loving others.

As natural mortals we will always break that law in some way every day. This is because sin is still present within us. But we have the indwelling Holy Spirit, and 1 John 1:9 to keep us on the path to holiness. "The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit".

So, we have faith alone in Christ to get us saved, and the indwelling Holy Spirit in our new hearts to keep us holy.

I think where some religious groups like the SDAs go wrong is they require their members to keep the Law as a set of external rules or else, implying that they need to do this to remain saved. This is legalism and leads to condemnation. We follow God's moral law and go with our inner desire for holiness because we are already saved and are secure in God's promise of salvation by faith - to us.

Oscarr said:

Yes. The Ten Commandments sum up God's moral law. They will always be set before us as God's standards for holy living. Jesus also summed them up by saying that we should love God with all our hearts, and love our neighbor as ourselves. If we look at the list of the Law in Deuteronomy, the list is divided up in how we should love God and love others, so failure in any part of that list is a failure in either loving God or loving others.

As natural mortals we will always break that law in some way every day. This is because sin is still present within us. But we have the indwelling Holy Spirit, and 1 John 1:9 to keep us on the path to holiness. "The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit".

So, we have faith alone in Christ to get us saved, and the indwelling Holy Spirit in our new hearts to keep us holy.

I think where some religious groups like the SDAs go wrong is they require their members to keep the Law as a set of external rules or else, implying that they need to do this to remain saved. This is legalism and leads to condemnation. We follow God's moral law and go with our inner desire for holiness because we are already saved and are secure in God's promise of salvation by faith - to us.

Click to expand...

Am I to ignore the command to abstain from blood, things strangled, and things contaminated by idols? As those commands are not listed in the ten commandments. (Acts 15)

Can I commit sorcery, take bribes, eat like a glutton everyday, get drunk and avoid paying tax? These sins are not listed in the ten commandments.

Am I to honor my parents but afflict widows and orphans at the same time, since mistreating widows and orphans is but a ceremonial law?

Should I tell the truth as that is a commandment but at the same time, selling my children into prostitution because that is a ceremonial law?

Can I beat someone almost to death but avoid actually killing them, thereby honoring the commandment not to kill.

Am I under the ten commandments but not under the law?

How do you tell someone they are under the law but not under the law in the same breath?

klutedavid said:

Am I to ignore the command to abstain from blood, things strangled, and things contaminated by idols? As those commands are not listed in the ten commandments. (Acts 15)

Can I commit sorcery, take bribes, eat like a glutton everyday, get drunk and avoid paying tax? These sins are not listed in the ten commandments.

Am I to honor my parents but afflict widows and orphans at the same time, since mistreating widows and orphans is but a ceremonial law?

Should I tell the truth as that is a commandment but at the same time, selling my children into prostitution because that is a ceremonial law?

Can I beat someone almost to death but avoid actually killing them, thereby honoring the commandment not to kill.

Am I under the ten commandments but not under the law?

How do you tell someone they are under the law but not under the law in the same breath?

Click to expand...

Oh. I'm not sure how serious you are in your post! Go over your list and test whether the are loving God with all your heart, or loving others as you would love yourself. Because those are the criteria that Jesus said fulfills the ten commandments and God's moral law. If you and I are conducting ourselves according to the criteria that Jesus set, then you and I would be doing none of those things.

I don't know about eating blood, or things strangled. There may be health-related issues there and it there is a rick, it may not be loving one's self. I guess that joining in a meal during a Hindu festival or in a Moslem mosque could fit into eating food contaminated by idols, although Paul said that idols were nothing, and it was up to the individual conscience. But I wouldn't enter a pagan temple and eat food there. But during a hindu festival one of the Court judges, who was Hindu, brought in samosas for the staff. I had no problem eating one.

klutedavid said:

Am I to ignore the command to abstain from blood, things strangled, and things contaminated by idols? As those commands are not listed in the ten commandments. (Acts 15)

Can I commit sorcery, take bribes, eat like a glutton everyday, get drunk and avoid paying tax? These sins are not listed in the ten commandments.

Am I to honor my parents but afflict widows and orphans at the same time, since mistreating widows and orphans is but a ceremonial law?

Should I tell the truth as that is a commandment but at the same time, selling my children into prostitution because that is a ceremonial law?

Can I beat someone almost to death but avoid actually killing them, thereby honoring the commandment not to kill.

Am I under the ten commandments but not under the law?

How do you tell someone they are under the law but not under the law in the same breath?

Click to expand...

I think you misunderstood.

I think these verses answers most of the above.
mark12:30-31
30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ a]">[a]This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

coffee4u said:

I think you misunderstood.

I think these verses answers most of the above.
mark12:30-31

Click to expand...

You said, 'I think these verses answers most of the above'.

Well I don't see any answer to most of the points I mentioned with those two ceremonial commandments.

Where is the gospel in that quotation?

Where is the commandment to love others as I have loved you. That is a divine level of love by the way. Jesus is commanding you to love others as He loved you. Is that even possible, can we exude divine, eternal love?

The following quotation is the law and does not have the same level of love demanded of it's adherent.

‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

What happens if I don't love myself very much does that mean I don't need to love others very much?

How about you address the post, line by line, and not attempt to randomly quote the scripture.

klutedavid said:

You said, 'I think these verses answers most of the above'.

Well I don't see any answer to most of the points I mentioned with those two ceremonial commandments.

Where is the gospel in that quotation?

Where is the commandment to love others as I have loved you. That is a divine level of love by the way. Jesus is commanding you to love others as He loved you. Is that even possible, can we exude divine, eternal love?

The following quotation is the law and does not have the same level of love demanded of it's adherent.

‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

What happens if I don't love myself very much does that mean I don't need to love others very much?

How about you address the post, line by line, and not attempt to randomly quote the scripture.

Click to expand...

The golden rule also in Scripture is: "Treat others as you would have others treat you." So you can go through your list and see if you would like others to do those things to you.

The ceremonial part of the Mosaic Law was abolished as soon as Jesus died, signified by the great curtain of the Temple being ripped by God from top to bottom. That left the moral part of the Law which is God's standard of holiness and that was never abolished. God's standards have never changed, because they are a reflection of His nature and character.

Therefore, Paul talks about Christ being formed within believers. This can only happen through the work of the indwelling Holy Spirit, and not trying to follow the rules from the rulebook.

I was trying to say that you were referencing the ten commandments but Oscarr wasn't talking about the ten commandments. Which is why I said I think you misunderstood.

A lot of what you asked such as

Am I to honour my parents but afflict widows and orphans at the same time, since mistreating widows and orphans is but a ceremonial law?

Should I tell the truth as that is a commandment but at the same time, selling my children into prostitution because that is a ceremonial law?

Can I beat someone almost to death but avoid actually killing them, thereby honouring the commandment not to kill.

Click to expand...

Is answered by ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ If you are following that you won't be beating your neighbour or mistreating widows or selling your children.

Where is the gospel in that quotation?

Click to expand...

It's not and I wasn't answering that.

What happens if I don't love myself very much does that mean I don't need to love others very much?

Click to expand...

I take that to mean we are to love ourselves and treat others accordingly. If a person doesn't love themselves very much they need to be working on it, don't they.

Oscarr said:

The golden rule also in Scripture is: "Treat others as you would have others treat you." So you can go through your list and see if you would like others to do those things to you.

The ceremonial part of the Mosaic Law was abolished as soon as Jesus died, signified by the great curtain of the Temple being ripped by God from top to bottom. That left the moral part of the Law which is God's standard of holiness and that was never abolished. God's standards have never changed, because they are a reflection of His nature and character.

Therefore, Paul talks about Christ being formed within believers. This can only happen through the work of the indwelling Holy Spirit, and not trying to follow the rules from the rulebook.

Click to expand...

That is what I am saying.

The rule book is the law and that includes coveting your neighbor's oxen.

The law shows someone what sin is but offers no solution to that problem, the sinful appetite.

You said the ten commandments are moral laws. I disagree with that statement because the Christian life is not about being a moral person according to the law.

The Christian life is all about your love, loving others as Christ has loved you. Which obviously takes care in spades of any moral requirement of the law.

Love is the fulfillment of the demands of the law, coveting itself has nothing to do with loving others.

Galatians 3:12
However, the Law is not of faith...

The law has nothing to do with your faith in Jesus.