Courage Apotolate not a priority

eastcoast_bsc

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Have to be sort of vague but a major Archdiocese was approached for giving the cold shoulder in regards to advertising the group. There were promises to do better.

Why should this even be so, should not the church go above and beyond for a group that preaches a chaste lifestyle for those coming out of the gay lifestyle?


Time will tell if th3 smiles and promises were bull crap.
 

chevyontheriver

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Have to be sort of vague but a major Archdiocese was approached for giving the cold shoulder in regards to advertising the group. There were promises to do better.

Why should this even be so, should not the church go above and beyond for a group that preaches a chaste lifestyle for those coming out of the gay lifestyle?


Time will tell if th3 smiles and promises were bull crap.
I think Courage is a great group. They should get lots of support from all manner of Catholics. It's a shame that the Lavender Mafia can prevent that.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I think the real problem here is that promoting a group of people who have come out of a previous sin, but who are also still continuing to identify themselves by that same sin (instead of discarding their previous wrongful identification) is counter productive.
They are not identifying themselves 'by that same sin' but by their still present inclinations toward that same sin, which they are contending with. Would you likewise say Alcoholics Anonymous are identifying themselves wrongly? These people are dealing with their concupiescence in an effective way, supporting each other in trying to maintain chastity. And they do pretty well. It's not like the people who go by the name of Dignity who promote undignified things.
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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Umm, yup. If they still have inclinations toward that same sin, and they are still contending with it, then they haven't actually been healed from it's ravages. And yet we have many references in the Bible where Jesus did actually heal people from both the physical and mental sins which afflicted them.

When Jesus left the 99 sheep who were just fine and went after the lamb who had strayed, hobbled it's legs and carried the lamb with Him, He didn't just leave the lamb or encourage it to wander on it's own in the wilderness did He? No, He didn't.

When Jesus found and healed the leaper from a disease that caused him to be an outcast from society, did He just pass by and say "Have a fun time!"? No.
When all the other people who needed to be healed jumped into the pool at Bethsaida while the old man who couldn't get into the pool sat by waiting because he couldn't get himself in, what did Jesus do? He helped him, and the man was healed.

The reality here is that all of these people and animals knew they needed help to change their condition, because they were caught up and enmeshed in a sin that they couldn't turn away from by themselves.

They were willing to be totally changed and delivered, and they trusted Jesus to bring about that change. What they didn't want to do was to go back or to tarry on the edges of what they had been delivered from.

Case in point, the demons who had been cast out of humans begged Jesus to send them into a heard of swine rather than to send them back to Hell.

So when Jesus delivers someone from their sins, His intention in that act of delivery is to set the person in question free from everything that is associated with that sin. And He also directs them to embrace their new life when they are delivered.

The lame man was directed to take up his mat and do the useful task of carrying it himself instead of laying around and asking everyone else to move him into the pool.

The man who was healed from leprosy was directed to go and show himself to a priest for confirmation of his healing, and direction that he could indeed begin a new life and be restored to his community instead of being shunned and avoided by them.

So yes, if someone were to ask Jesus for deliverance from the attraction or inclination to the homosexual life, Jesus would heal them.
And in turn He would expect them to move away from that previous life, and towards a life that God would approve of, instead of looking backwards or hanging around on the fringes of the wrong crowd, because it was familiar.

So when a person is delivered from the chains of their previous sin, they are also expected by Jesus to turn and remove themselves from the temptation to return to that sin, and not willingly remain hanging around in the vicinity of the temptation.
So someone who is delivered from alcohol (for example) would be expected to get rid of the bottles, not go to the liquor store, and not go tailgating in the parking lot, or chug a beer during the game.

It's not about just resisting the urges, it's all about doing a 180 with your life so that your eyes are able to see what is the right thing to do, and to be glad that the chains are gone and you are freed from them.


No where did I mention that Courage members identify as Gay. They don't, so lets not be holier than thou.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Umm, yup. If they still have inclinations toward that same sin, and they are still contending with it, then they haven't actually been healed from it's ravages. And yet we have many references in the Bible where Jesus did actually heal people from both the physical and mental sins which afflicted them.

When Jesus left the 99 sheep who were just fine and went after the lamb who had strayed, hobbled it's legs and carried the lamb with Him, He didn't just leave the lamb or encourage it to wander on it's own in the wilderness did He? No, He didn't.

When Jesus found and healed the leaper from a disease that caused him to be an outcast from society, did He just pass by and say "Have a fun time!"? No.
When all the other people who needed to be healed jumped into the pool at Bethsaida while the old man who couldn't get into the pool sat by waiting because he couldn't get himself in, what did Jesus do? He helped him, and the man was healed.

The reality here is that all of these people and animals knew they needed help to change their condition, because they were caught up and enmeshed in a sin that they couldn't turn away from by themselves.

They were willing to be totally changed and delivered, and they trusted Jesus to bring about that change. What they didn't want to do was to go back or to tarry on the edges of what they had been delivered from.

Case in point, the demons who had been cast out of humans begged Jesus to send them into a heard of swine rather than to send them back to Hell.

So when Jesus delivers someone from their sins, His intention in that act of delivery is to set the person in question free from everything that is associated with that sin. And He also directs them to embrace their new life when they are delivered.

The lame man was directed to take up his mat and do the useful task of carrying it himself instead of laying around and asking everyone else to move him into the pool.

The man who was healed from leprosy was directed to go and show himself to a priest for confirmation of his healing, and direction that he could indeed begin a new life and be restored to his community instead of being shunned and avoided by them.

So yes, if someone were to ask Jesus for deliverance from the attraction or inclination to the homosexual life, Jesus would heal them.
And in turn He would expect them to move away from that previous life, and towards a life that God would approve of, instead of looking backwards or hanging around on the fringes of the wrong crowd, because it was familiar.

So when a person is delivered from the chains of their previous sin, they are also expected by Jesus to turn and remove themselves from the temptation to return to that sin, and not willingly remain hanging around in the vicinity of the temptation.
So someone who is delivered from alcohol (for example) would be expected to get rid of the bottles, not go to the liquor store, and not go tailgating in the parking lot, or chug a beer during the game.

It's not about just resisting the urges, it's all about doing a 180 with your life so that your eyes are able to see what is the right thing to do, and to be glad that the chains are gone and you are freed from them.
I've come to respect your opinions but on this one I think you need to dig in a wee bit more to what Courage is all about.
 
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zippy2006

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Umm, yup. If they still have inclinations toward that same sin, and they are still contending with it, then they haven't actually been healed from it's ravages. And yet we have many references in the Bible where Jesus did actually heal people from both the physical and mental sins which afflicted them.

Thanks for your post, but I disagree.

We have other instances where Jesus didn't, and we know that he didn't heal everyone he encountered. Think especially of the woman caught in adultery. Those who caught her thought she should be punished because she was a sinner. Jesus said, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." No one stoned her, and we hear that Jesus told her not to sin anymore. There is no mention that he healed her. She may have had to struggle to follow his command. She may have had to fight. We Christians are called to fight, and not only with external enemies, but also with our own sins and sinful inclinations. If we were healed of all our infirmities without remainder, then we would never have to fight any internal battles. There would be no "thorns of the flesh" such as St. Paul talks about.
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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My dear friend, (for that is what you are to me) God in His wisdom did not give me that assignment because He knows me-both my strength and my weakness- well indeed.
So with all respect to you, I will decline to set foot on their page.

What we could do instead is to pray that God will once again send His angels to witness to those who are entangled in various and diverse sexual sins.


You do realize courage is a Catholic Apostolate?Your declining to set for on “their” page makes it seem as if their looked down upon.
 
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chevyontheriver

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My dear friend, (for that is what you are to me) God in His wisdom did not give me that assignment because He knows me-both my strength and my weakness- well indeed.
So with all respect to you, I will decline to set foot on their page.
OK. But Courage is for those who wish to courageously resist their weaknesses in that regard, not to indulge them, as is what so many seem to think is the proper thing to do these days. Courage is about fortitude and standing up to disordered desires. I think you have Courage confused with some other group.
What we could do instead is to pray that God will once again send His angels to witness to those who are entangled in various and diverse sexual sins.
We can agree on that.
 
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chevyontheriver

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You do realize courage is a Catholic Apostolate?Your declining to set for on “their” page makes it seem as if their looked down upon.
Well, father James Martin LGBTQSJ is a Vatican approved something or other and a Jesuit in good standing too. I agree that Courage is a great and good thing, but not everything that makes it as an apostolate is indeed worthy anymore.
 
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pdudgeon

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You do realize courage is a Catholic Apostolate?Your declining to set for on “their” page makes it seem as if their looked down upon.

ok, apparently you did not understand what I was saying, so I'll take a risk, try again, and see if I can communicate better than I did the first time.

So let's say that you and I have decided to visit a mall together and do some shopping. And while there, we decide to have lunch.

You're more familiar with the place than I am, and recomend a fabulous pasta dish. I smile, and choose something else to eat.

That doesn't mean that I question the chef or your choice of a fabulous dish. I can see that the chef is very good, and the dish looks amazing.

But what you are unaware of is that lurking in that dish is an ordinary and common ingredient that I am allergic to. So if I were to follow your lead and order the dish that you are enjoying, I would have an allergic reaction and probably wind up in the hospital.

So I order another dish, and we both leave the diner very full and very happy.
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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Well, father James Martin LGBTQSJ is a Vatican approved something or other and a Jesuit in good standing too. I agree that Courage is a great and good thing, but not everything that makes it as an apostolate is indeed worthy anymore.


So then why the hostility and anger? We are all supposed to be in the struggle together not look down on other Catholics in their walk.

Father James Martin has nothing in common with what was being discussed in my post. Nothing.
 
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