Wandering Eyes

Endeavourer said:

How many men in more rural areas to you have a relationship with close enough to know this to be a fact?

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I don’t need a relationship with a man to see that he’s staring at my breasts. When I visit rural areas, as I do at least 5 times a year, I experience this. It’s a stark difference from walking around in the urban area where I live. There’s a guy I see occasionally in my work who lives in a rural area and I pick out a top that’s as baggy and high cut as I can find because he never looks in my eyes when I meet with him.

Endeavourer said:

Well here ^^ we have Exhibit A on this:

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The fact that 90% of the men I interact with seem to be able to avoid staring at my body parts does make me have a lack of sympathy for those that do. They are just being outright disrespectful. Also, neither my husband or any of my previous boyfriends stare at other women in a noticeable way in front of me. That was acceptable 20 years ago but not anymore.

Sparagmos said:

I find that it’s .... men in more rural areas that seem to still be unable to control themselves.

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Sparagmos said:

. There’s a guy I see occasionally in my work who lives in a rural area and I pick out a top that’s as baggy and high cut as I can find because he never looks in my eyes when I meet with him.

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Ah, I see.

How is that any different than stereotyping in other ways?

For example:

"I find that it's the ______ that seem to still be unable to control themselves. There is a person who is a _____ I see occasionally that ......... ."

Fill in the blank with whites, blacks, Indians, men, women, Christian, etc..... you get the idea.

Stereotyping all of those rural rubes is no more charitable (or accurate) than stereotyping any other groups of people based on your perception of or the behaviors of one.

Endeavourer said:

But we would all agree that the OP in no way was leering or lusting, correct?

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Exactly. That's my point. No need to get all worked up and guilt-ridden for noticing a woman. And by noticing I mean "she's a pretty woman"....not "wow, look at the jugs on her".

Endeavourer said:

He was simply seeking tips on ways to change an instinctive pattern of a physical reaction - an eye movement response.

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A Realist said:

Exactly. That's my point. No need to get all worked up and guilt-ridden for noticing a woman. And by noticing I mean "she's a pretty woman"....not "wow, look at the jugs on her".

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Exactly.

Just yesterday my girlfriend and I were in a car together and a couple ran by. The female was very pretty and had the body shape I lean towards. My girlfriend asked me if I noticed her, I said she ran right past the front of the car, how could I not. She laughed and said, I love teasing you about this stuff. Then she said that she couldn't help but notice her either and that she was attractive.

My girlfriend's philosophy is that I am not dead and I am male. We're geared to notice the female body and many of us find a certain shape the most appealing. She doesn't care if I notice and look, as long as when the time is right (after marriage) I bring it home to her. Which she trusts me to do as I have never given her a reason not to.

As she said, she cannot help but look either.

John P. Alexander said:

Of course. Married or not men have these tendencies however and I would like advice from people who have conquered them.

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All people have beautiful traits and some women are very attractive but we must remember that all are children of the Living God! When you say this to yourself it will put your mind where it needs to be, loving others because we are all wonderfully made in the image of God...

danielmears said:

All people have beautiful traits and some women are very attractive but we must remember that all are children of the Living God! When you say this to yourself it will put your mind where it needs to be, loving others because we are all wonderfully made in the image of God...

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Amen, this perspective helps change the lenses of the eyes we view others with. Specifically women as sexual objects.

I must confess that I have the same problem, and I am not married , so it is worse for me, however once I find myself doing exactly that I look away, or try to look away before even seeing her, I know that a I will find myself doing this so I look away even before taking notice of her.

The biggest problem is that this is a leftover from inappropriate contentography, I recently beat inappropriate contentography for the last 8 years, that helps but these images that were once there are still there. Its a leftover from the enemy, and lots of times the enemy will put images in your mind that go directly for this.

You have to make a conscious effort to look away, to say that 'I am just a man' is no excuse as women do not like this and I am aware of it.

Lastly you have to take every thought captive and ask yourself, is what I am doing pleasing to Jesus , or pleasing to the enemy and Make a Choice for the good of things. Note that I am saying this as a sinner who often falls tempted for that one.

I will say a prayer for us all, Dear Jesus help me to have GOOD eyes and not BAD ones, help me to do what is pleasing to do what You want, not what I want. And Jesus Christ I ask you come down within me and help control my eyes, and my heart, I want to be like You Jesus , help me to do that as best as possible, but remind me always that compared to You I am like filthy rags, Jesus, with Your Blood, please make those filthy rags white again. Amen

Endeavourer said:

Ah, I see.

How is that any different than stereotyping in other ways?

For example:

"I find that it's the ______ that seem to still be unable to control themselves. There is a person who is a _____ I see occasionally that ......... ."

Fill in the blank with whites, blacks, Indians, men, women, Christian, etc..... you get the idea.

Stereotyping all of those rural rubes is no more charitable (or accurate) than stereotyping any other groups of people based on your perception of or the behaviors of one.

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I said “I find...” meaning I was clear that this was my experience. I’m fine with you considering that stereotyping. It seems like a change of subject though. My original point was that most men control this behavior, and that staring at women’s body parts is disrespectful.

John P. Alexander said:

You think they do. Men are good at not being caught very often. I made the thread because, as I specified later on, my wife did catch me instinctively look at attractive woman walking by. You have a completely wrong idea of what is being discussed here and you're being exceptionally rude.

You're stereotyping location. I could just as easily say I'm not surprised a Portland, Oregon woman is coming across as an angry feminist.

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I think you are perhaps being defensive and projecting onto sparagomos.

John P. Alexander said:

You would be incorrect.

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I do not see any rudeness in the posts. When a subject is personal it is easy to read more into things that are not there. It would explain why you might feel wounded but I honestly haven't seen anything rude. I am apt to feel a sense of injustice for people if anyone is being curt or someone mocks somebody. Unless, I skipped a line when reading earlier of course, but I haven't seen anything and have yet to witness rudeness in the past from that poster.

John P. Alexander said:

Here:



The insinuation is that I'm below "most men" and that I do not see women as equals but as sex objects. It's rude and it's obvious. The poster then goes on to stereotype people from rural areas.

I've asked that the thread be closed. It's run its course.

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It would have helped if you'd referenced that message before. I have to admit can see why you said that.

I can understand her point of view because it actually feels really horrible for a guy to be looking at our body parts. It makes me feel degraded and 'yucky'. Even being dressed modestly doesn't protect us from that. Things have gotten better since the 90's... or I'm just getting older. I don't know. 'When saying she had no sympathy', There is a chance that she may have been expressing the way she felt about the subject, rather than at you, due to all the leering she has been subjected to. Hope my experience helps you to understand and to forgive.

OP What is wrong with appreciating beauty? I look at beautiful women all the time, and often say HI to them as well. An appreciation of all that is beautiful is a foundation of aestheticism.

I feel sad that a thread with a sincere request for tips on a minor matter devolved in the manner this thread did. I opened a thread a short while ago about whether churches are a safe place to seek help, and this thread unfortunately demonstrates that a good number of Christians are not mature enough or wise enough to provide safe counsel.

John P. Alexander said:

I understand that.

Let me present something to you. I'm a balding man. My hairline has really let me down. I frequently catch people looking at my head, especially strangers or especially when first meeting someone. It's human nature. It doesn't make me feel great when this happens but I don't go on a crusade. It's generally women as men typically don't care about another man's hair.

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Maybe you can take comfort in that you have the desired number of hairs on your head. You are designed that way and loved by God.

Also, as Christians we are supposed to love you the same whether you have a thick or receding hairline or even two heads.

It doesn't have to be human nature for Christians. All it needs is for a Christian to notice that it is not loving to notice people's supposed physical flaws and to gain further insight and through the Lord's help they can learn to stop looking at the external. When I see the external (after noticing that I felt more kindly towards cute children than not so cute ones around the same time as a poster on here felt unworthy because he said he was ugly and people avoided him) I tend to now notice if someone looks like life is hard, not had enough sleep etc and rarely think of aesthetics, I thank the Lord for that.