We Sure Are Good At Messing Up The Trinity

SPF said:

I couldn't help but notice that a certain poster in the recently closed thread concerning OSAS, made this comment that nobody else seemed to notice:

"Technically, Jesus was not God ... not in the same league as Father God
because He was part human ... Jesus was the God-man.
That's why jesus said His Father was greater than He was!"

What do you think of this quote? Is it accurate? Is it heresy?

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No Heresies get past The Honey Badger !!

BCsenior said:

No One residing in a human body can consider Himself as being equal to Father God.

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However, there is plenty in the New Testament showing us that Jesus did know he was God and, what's more, said so.

Albion said:

However, there is plenty in the New Testament showing us that
Jesus did know he was God and, what's more, said so.

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Yes, but you can see where I'm coming from, can't you.

Honestly, I wasn't sure. It looked like you were saying that being human was an obstacle to being divine at the same time, or at least to comprehending it.

An antichrist. Anyone who denies the Saviour is an antichrist. God means Saviour, Salvation.

iLearn said:

God means Saviour, Salvation.

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Forgive me, I believe the word "Jesus" means Savior.

SPF said:

I couldn't help but notice that a certain poster in the recently closed thread concerning OSAS, made this comment that nobody else seemed to notice:

"Technically, Jesus was not God ... not in the same league as Father God
because He was part human ... Jesus was the God-man.
That's why jesus said His Father was greater than He was!"

What do you think of this quote? Is it accurate? Is it heresy?

Click to expand...

I am not sure if this person is Catholic but my friends who are Catholic seem to think the same way even though the RCC recognizes that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is both divine and human.
Blessings

Albion said:

Honestly, I wasn't sure. It looked like you were saying that being human was an obstacle to being divine at the same time, or at least to comprehending it.

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Actually no ... I'll repeat myself ...
Why did Jesus say Father God was greater than He was?
and
Was Jesus stumbling around in the (dry) dirt and (wet) mud
in the same league as Father God at that moment in time?
and
How could Someone stumbling around on earth
consider Himself to be equal to Father God?
But, Jesus did to a degree ...

Jesus always has considered Himself subordinate to the Father,
even though this is a matter of them having different functions
within the Triune Godhead ... Father God is the Head Honcho.
E.G. Father God created all things through Jesus,
Jesus actually was the Creator, but the Father ordained(?) it to be done.
Jesus, being the Word, spoke everything into existence.
And Jesus is the Sustainer of all things now.

SPF said:

I couldn't help but notice that a certain poster in the recently closed thread concerning OSAS, made this comment that nobody else seemed to notice:

"Technically, Jesus was not God ... not in the same league as Father God
because He was part human ... Jesus was the God-man.
That's why jesus said His Father was greater than He was!"

What do you think of this quote? Is it accurate? Is it heresy?

Click to expand...

Just because groups of people decide a point of view is heresy, that means nothing, if the point of view does not impact one's ability to be saved by Christ. I don't think his point of view would interfere with the Gospel message being accepted for salvation.

The truth is: no one knows. There are many opinions on God, and many well thought out, educated guesses based upon Scripture. But the bottom line remains: no one knows.

Here is my heretical opinion. I believe the second member of God was placed in the egg of Mary as the template for the man to be born. I believe the man, Jesus of Nazereth, was the perfect expression of the Word made with a created human spirit, human soul and human body. I believe the fullness of God dwelt in Jesus the man from conception, even tho the Holy Spirit and the part we call Father remained omnipresent. It was the Word that dwelt in a self limiting way to be Christ.

Frankly, when Jesus said his Father was greater than him, I believe he was speaking solely as a man about God - the fulness of the Trinity - being greater than him.

SPF said:

I couldn't help but notice that a certain poster in the recently closed thread concerning OSAS, made this comment that nobody else seemed to notice:

"Technically, Jesus was not God ... not in the same league as Father God
because He was part human ... Jesus was the God-man.
That's why jesus said His Father was greater than He was!"

What do you think of this quote? Is it accurate? Is it heresy?

Click to expand...

As the God-man, which he was, Jesus was fully God and fully human, not part one and part the other. He said that his Father was greater than he was only in his role or function, not his deity. At the end of time, when Jesus will have conquered all the evil forces, he will submit to his Father, according to Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians 15. His status with the Father is that they are both fully one God with the Holy Spirit, but each one's role is as follows: the Father is the Source, Jesus is the Agent, and the Holy Spirit is the Actor of creation and salvation. He is three Persons in one God.

Maria Billingsley said:

I am not sure if this person is Catholic but my friends who are Catholic seem to think the same way
even though the RCC recognizes that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is both divine and human.

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No, I have never been Catholic.
But, maybe after 2000 years, they've had almost enough time to think on these matters.
But, if the Spirit reveals something to you, it doesn't take 2000 seconds to "know" it.

Bruce Leiter said:

... each one's role is as follows:
the Father is the Source, Jesus is the Agent, and the Holy Spirit is the Actor of creation and salvation.

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My goodness, you certainly think you have the bull by the tail, don't you.
The Actor of salvation? WOW!
Care to see the 10 NT verses which say Jesus is the Giver of eternal life?

There are many such descriptions of the Trinity, such as:
Father = Administrator ... Jesus = Creator, Savior, etc. ... Holy Spirit = Work Horse

AlexDTX said:

Frankly, when Jesus said his Father was greater than him, I believe he was speaking
solely as a man about God - the fulness of the Trinity - being greater than him.

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Thank you ... you've got it.
Father God was greater than the God-man stumbling around in the dirt and mud.

But, just so everyone can understand this, let's say:

Jesus Christ was FULLY MAN.
Time out until everyone has stopped jumping up and own with great glee!

It was the FULLY MAN who said Father God was greater than He was.
Time out until everyone has stopped scratching their heads!

It was the FULLY MAN, not the FULLY GOD, who was speaking.

BCsenior said:

Forgive me, I believe the word "Jesus" means Savior.

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Christ means Saviour. Isaiah 43:11 said God is the Saviour. Only Jesus carries the title Christ. Jesus is the only God.

SPF said:

I personally suspect that he doesn't in fact believe in the orthodox view of the Trinity and recognizes that his belief is in the minority, considered heresy by the 3 branches of Christianity, and would be in violation of this forums Code of Conduct, and therefore, is refusing to speak clearly.

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then it's a setup. if @BCsenior's not allowed to speak about it, he's not allowed to speak about it. asking him directly doesn't magically change CF rules. I don't know his motivation but if in fact he doesn't believe in the trinity and his post was in violation of the rules then the next step would be to report the post not create a new thread to call him out. his vagueness now might be in fear of violating the rules, he himself cites he doesn't want to answer because he doesn't want to offend anyone... perhaps that should be clear enough. We can't reject that this might be a response from already getting contacted by the moderators regarding the post question.

iLearn said:

Christ means Saviour. Isaiah 43:11 said God is the Saviour.
Only Jesus carries the title Christ. Jesus is the only God.

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Forgive me ... Christ means Messiah.
The Bible clearly teaches that God has revealed Himself as 3 Persons:
God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit.
They are called the Triune Godhead, and the Trinity.

AlexDTX said:

Just because groups of people decide a point of view is heresy, that means nothing, if the point of view does not impact one's ability to be saved by Christ. I don't think his point of view would interfere with the Gospel message being accepted for salvation.

The truth is: no one knows. There are many opinions on God, and many well thought out, educated guesses based upon Scripture. But the bottom line remains: no one knows.

Here is my heretical opinion. I believe the second member of God was placed in the egg of Mary as the template for the man to be born. I believe the man, Jesus of Nazereth, was the perfect expression of the Word made with a created human spirit, human soul and human body. I believe the fullness of God dwelt in Jesus the man from conception, even tho the Holy Spirit and the part we call Father remained omnipresent. It was the Word that dwelt in a self limiting way to be Christ.

Frankly, when Jesus said his Father was greater than him, I believe he was speaking solely as a man about God - the fulness of the Trinity - being greater than him.

Click to expand...

That being said, what is the condition of Jesus Christ of Nazareth then and now? Is He?
God
Son of God
Word made Flesh
God in the Flesh
God the Father
The Holy Spirit
Man who is God
God who is Man
Savior
Redeemer
Lamb of God
Mediator
Shepard
Light of the world
Anointed one
Bread of life
The way
Son of David
Son of man
Prince of Peace
Emmanuel
....even more

Take your pick, Jesus Christ of Nazareth rules over Heaven and Earth no matter what anyone thinks.
Blessings

Maria Billingsley said:

That being said, what is the condition of Jesus Christ of Nazareth then and now? Take your pick, Jesus Christ of Nazareth rules over Heaven and Earth no matter what anyone thinks.

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I'ze havin' difficulty choosin' my favorite ... Man who is God ...or... God who is Man.
Can you help me, Maria?

Maria Billingsley said:

That being said, what is the condition of Jesus Christ of Nazareth then and now? Is He?

Click to expand...

God
Son of God
Word made Flesh
God in the Flesh
God the Father Nope
The Holy Spirit No, again.
Man who is God
God who is Man
Savior
Redeemer
Lamb of God
Mediator
Shepard
Light of the world
Anointed one
Bread of life
The way
Son of David
Son of man
Prince of Peace
Emmanuel
....even more

BCsenior said:

Thank you ... you've got it.
Father God was greater than the God-man stumbling around in the dirt and mud.

But, just so everyone can understand this, let's say:

Jesus Christ was FULLY MAN.
Time out until everyone has stopped jumping up and own with great glee!

It was the FULLY MAN who said Father God was greater than He was.
Time out until everyone has stopped scratching their heads!

It was the FULLY MAN, not the FULLY GOD, who was speaking.

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What is your problem with God walking on earth and mud? God in Christianity by becoming man to save us is already 10 thousand times better than Judaism and Islam.