The Dangerous Confusion & Delusion In Dispensationalism & Christian Zionism Doctrines
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It depends on the person. Obviously - as is demonstrated in this very thread - there are different interpretations of those words. I can't speak for other people. Maybe it's best to ask what the Spirit has revealed to the Church for thousands of years?
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Good if true, yes, what was completed - Yahuweh always completes what He Sends His Word to Accomplish.
But it seems there's a leaning towards something like eternal security or universalism,
which are contrary to His Word.... so a call for caution. A 'red flag' so to speak, to test everything to be sure it is in harmony with His Word, and not opposed to His Word.
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Glass half full[Partial Preterists] rather than half empty [Futurists]
Partial Preterism at PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism
"The theologically liberal accusations that the New Testament writers taught that Jesus Christ would return in their own lifetimes (thus denying Biblical infallibility) is no less erroneous than is the notion by some conservatives that we must attribute most or all of such texts to the destruction of Jerusalem in A. D. 70 in order to maintain the integrity of the Bible’s infallibility" - P. Andrew Sandlin
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
When do think will this take place ? >>>
Haggai 2:9
King James Bible
The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.
"I will provide
אֶתֵּ֣ן (’et·tên)
Verb - Qal - Imperfect - first person common singular
Strong's Hebrew 5414: 1) to give, put, set 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to give, bestow, grant, permit, ascribe, employ, devote, consecrate, dedicate, pay wages, sell, exchange, lend, commit, entrust, give over, deliver up, yield produce, occasion, produce, requite to, report, mention, utter, stretch out, extend 1a2) to put, set, put on, put upon, set, appoint, assign, designate 1a3) to make, constitute 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to be given, be bestowed, be provided, be entrusted to, be granted to, be permitted, be issued, be published, be uttered, be assigned 1b2) to be set, be put, be made, be inflicted 1c) (Hophal) 1c1) to be given, be bestowed, be given up, be delivered up 1c2) to be put upon
peace,
שָׁל֔וֹם (šā·lō·wm)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7965: 1) completeness, soundness, welfare, peace 1a) completeness (in number) 1b) safety, soundness (in body) 1c) welfare, health, prosperity 1d) peace, quiet, tranquillity, contentment 1e) peace, friendship 1e1) of human relationships 1e2) with God especially in covenant relationship 1f) peace (from war) 1g) peace (as adjective)
declares
נְאֻ֖ם (nə·’um)
Noun - masculine singular construct
Strong's Hebrew 5002: 1) (Qal) utterance, declaration (of prophet) 1a) utterance, declaration, revelation (of prophet in ecstatic state) 1b) utterance, declaration (elsewhere always preceding divine name)
the LORD
יְהוָ֥ה (Yah·weh)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 3068: Jehovah = 'the existing One' 1) the proper name of the one true God 1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of H0136
of Hosts.”
צְבָאֽוֹת׃ (ṣə·ḇā·’ō·wṯ)
Noun - common plural
Strong's Hebrew 6635: 1) that which goes forth, army, war, warfare, host 1a) army, host 1a1) host (of organised army) 1a2) host (of angels) 1a3) of sun, moon, and stars 1a4) of whole creation 1b) war, warfare, service, go out to war 1c) service
Haggai 2:9
King James Bible
The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.
"I will provide
אֶתֵּ֣ן (’et·tên)
Verb - Qal - Imperfect - first person common singular
Strong's Hebrew 5414: 1) to give, put, set 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to give, bestow, grant, permit, ascribe, employ, devote, consecrate, dedicate, pay wages, sell, exchange, lend, commit, entrust, give over, deliver up, yield produce, occasion, produce, requite to, report, mention, utter, stretch out, extend 1a2) to put, set, put on, put upon, set, appoint, assign, designate 1a3) to make, constitute 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to be given, be bestowed, be provided, be entrusted to, be granted to, be permitted, be issued, be published, be uttered, be assigned 1b2) to be set, be put, be made, be inflicted 1c) (Hophal) 1c1) to be given, be bestowed, be given up, be delivered up 1c2) to be put upon
peace,
שָׁל֔וֹם (šā·lō·wm)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7965: 1) completeness, soundness, welfare, peace 1a) completeness (in number) 1b) safety, soundness (in body) 1c) welfare, health, prosperity 1d) peace, quiet, tranquillity, contentment 1e) peace, friendship 1e1) of human relationships 1e2) with God especially in covenant relationship 1f) peace (from war) 1g) peace (as adjective)
declares
נְאֻ֖ם (nə·’um)
Noun - masculine singular construct
Strong's Hebrew 5002: 1) (Qal) utterance, declaration (of prophet) 1a) utterance, declaration, revelation (of prophet in ecstatic state) 1b) utterance, declaration (elsewhere always preceding divine name)
the LORD
יְהוָ֥ה (Yah·weh)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 3068: Jehovah = 'the existing One' 1) the proper name of the one true God 1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of H0136
of Hosts.”
צְבָאֽוֹת׃ (ṣə·ḇā·’ō·wṯ)
Noun - common plural
Strong's Hebrew 6635: 1) that which goes forth, army, war, warfare, host 1a) army, host 1a1) host (of organised army) 1a2) host (of angels) 1a3) of sun, moon, and stars 1a4) of whole creation 1b) war, warfare, service, go out to war 1c) service
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Gotta get the Jews to forget the Old House of Moses and move into the New House of Jesus......
Zec 5:4
“I will send out the curse,” says the LORD of hosts;
“It shall enter the house of the thief And the house of the one who swears falsely by My name.
It shall remain in the midst of his house and consume it, with its timber and stones.”
Matthew 23:
37 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
38 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate<2048>
Luke 13:
34 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
35 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate<2048>,
Revelation 18:19
And they cast dust upon their heads and cried out, lamenting and mourning, saying "woe! woe! the City, the great, in which are rich all the ones having the ships in the sea out of the preciousness of Her,
that to one hour She was desolated<2049>
============================
1Pe 2:5
you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Was the answer to the question in there somewhere ? I did not see it.
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I was addressing the claim that when Bible prophecy says "Israel," it means "the Church." I was pointing out that this interpretation could not even possibly explain Ezekiel 36. This is, of course, true of many other prophecies as well.
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
The question was not answered - instead, as often happens, deflection was attempted.
It would have been better wisdom I think, to have answered the question instead of pretending ....
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I don't see the trouble in Ezekiel's prophecy being reconciled with the history of the early Church as presented in the NT?
That is still an ambiguous claim (Israel meaning the Church) - because some people use that to dismiss the fact that the early church WAS Jewish and then the "two peoples of God" framework is employed (stripping away the glory of God's fulfillment and His nature).
I believe it's more appropriate to state that "Israel" = the faithful People of God. Those that have been set apart to represent Him. The ancient religious system failed at properly glorifying Him - so it was taken away.....destroyed....and now He dwells in the hearts of His faithful believers (forever). No human will take that throne away. No human High Priest will ever remove Jesus from His position as our High Priest.
ETA: The whole "two peoples of God" doctrine separates Jew from Gentile when Jesus had taken the two and formed one New Man.
“Abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility” (Eph. 2:15-16).
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I think the meaning is pretty plain from Ezekiel 37:15-17:
"Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 'As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: "For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions." Then take another stick and write on it, "For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions." Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.' "
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Today this is true also (the words of Jesus and the prophets happening all over the world, all around us) .... Including the wide spread deception of the leaders of the governments, and the falling away, and the false teachers, and the lie being called truth while the truth is called a lie ..... and "we all (Ekklesia) are being led like sheep to the slaughter daily" ....
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You must be missing my point.
We don't have Jesus walking our streets in human form. I can't go out to the nearby mountain and stand beside Him and listen to His teaching. I can't witness His death on the cross and be one of the people that He stayed with for 40 days after His resurrection. I don't have the entire OT memorized as a lot of Jewish men did.....but to see all that they'd learned and anticipated about their Messiah.....and to hear about (or witness) His miracles....and see everything unfold right before their very eyes? That was a unique generation.
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Just be blessed you weren't among these guys and their families in 70AD
Matthew 3:7 Yet seeing many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming upon his baptism, he said to them,
“Offspring<1081> of vipers! Who intimates<5263> to ye to be fleeing from the being about<3195> wrath?
Luke 3:7 Then he said to the throngs going out to be baptized by him,
“Offspring of vipers! Who intimates to ye to be fleeing from the being about wrath?
Matthew 23: 33 "Serpents! offspring of vipers!
how ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna<1067>
Revelation 6:16
They called to the mountains and the rocks,
“Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lambkin!
17For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of the tormenting of them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.
And not they are having Rest/anapausin <372> day and night [Matthew 11:29/Hebrews 4:3]
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted
Is the "GEHENNA" of Matt 23:33 the "LAKE OF FIRE" in Revelation? Poll thread
============================
N.T. Wright, preterism, and Gehenna
Wright wrote: T
he most common New Testament word sometimes translated as hell is Gehenna. Gehenna was a place, not just an idea: it
was the rubbish heap outside the south-west corner of the old city of Jerusalem. There is to this day a valley at that point that bears the name of Ge Hinnom. When I was in Jerusalem a few years ago, I was taken to a classy restaurant on the western slope of this famous valley, and we witnessed a spectacular fireworks display, organized no doubt without deliberate irony, on the site to which Jesus was referring to when he spoke about the smoldering fires of Gehenna.
=======================
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