We Sure Are Good At Messing Up The Trinity

Kate30 said:

Just because we cannot understand something completely does not mean that it’s not true

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Um, okay.

I'm not even sure the scripture supports the trinitarian model, at least not in the sense that most seem to think of. I might so far go as to call it false doctrine.

SPF said:

I couldn't help but notice that a certain poster in the recently closed thread concerning OSAS, made this comment that nobody else seemed to notice:

"Technically, Jesus was not God ... not in the same league as Father God
because He was part human ... Jesus was the God-man.
That's why jesus said His Father was greater than He was!"

What do you think of this quote? Is it accurate?

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Not at all.
Jesus was fully man and fully God.

If he were not God, then it was only a man who died on the cross. Humans are not perfect, so he would not have been and could not have taken my sins upon himself, 2 Corinthians 5:21. If he'd been only a man, he would not have been the spotless Lamb chosen from the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20.
Yes, of course it's impossible to explain how God could die. But it's still Christian doctrine that God, in Jesus, laid down his life as a sacrifice for us. The wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23. We owed the debt but could not pay it; he owed nothing but paid the price for us.

If Jesus wasn't God then, as I see it, we have no Gospel.

"Technically, Jesus was not God ... not in the same league as Father God
because He was part human ... Jesus was the God-man.
That's why Jesus said His Father was greater than He was!"

To understand the above reasoning requires a little bit of common sense.
Seeing as I wish to offend no one, I shall not comment further.

SPF said:

Actually, you should comment further and clarify what you meant if it isn't what you wrote.

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Truly, if one can understand the words I have written,
then no more explanation should be necessary!
Please, do not just go for a general feeling of my intent,
butski, focus on the actual value and meaning of the words!

Jesus said His Father was greater than He was!
Dost thou have a different explanation than what I have given?

SPF said:

I couldn't help but notice that a certain poster in the recently closed thread concerning OSAS, made this comment that nobody else seemed to notice:

"Technically, Jesus was not God ... not in the same league as Father God
because He was part human ... Jesus was the God-man.
That's why jesus said His Father was greater than He was!"

What do you think of this quote? Is it accurate? Is it heresy?

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We can't comprehend the Trinity but scripture shows us 3 as well as shows us there is only 1 God. Its like flatland, you can be told something exists but only have the capacity to understand it based on our limits.

A Muslim friend asked me if I could explain the Trinity. I knew it was a set up and asked him if he every heard of the comparing the Trinity with an egg, roles within a family or even a jelly donat. He said he had, then I told him I wouldn't dare make such offensive comparisons to the almighty. I told him I don't understand it but I value it because God has chosen to reveal himself this way and who am I to question God?

DamianWarS said:

A Muslim friend asked me if I could explain the Trinity. I knew it was a set up and asked him if he every heard of the comparing the Trinity with an egg, roles within a family or even a jelly donat. He said he had, then I told him I wouldn't dare make such offensive comparisons to the almighty. I told him I don't understand it but I value it because God has chosen to reveal himself this way and who am I to question God?

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Years ago, I corresponded with a Muslim leader who had a prominent website.
He ended up admitting that the only thing that stopped him from believing was John 17:2,
which seems to say that only Father God is God, and that Jesus is only a man.

But, of course, as is usually the case, he misunderstood what John was saying!!!
Right?

Kate30 said:

Colourblend I don’t think any of us can fully comprehend the trinity. And there is nothing wrong with that. There are many illustrations given such as a multi coloured rainbow but nothing ever completely answers the question satisfactorily that way. All we need to know is what is clearly defined in scripture and that it is there. You get on a plane but one does not really know how it works but it does . I turn on a light I don’t fully understand how electricity becomes light but I know that it works. Just because we cannot understand something completely does not mean that it’s not true.

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All true.

But when the majority (confessed Trinitarians like in this forum) condemn those who don't believe in the Trinity to Hell for teaching heresy and then can't present the Trinity in a way that avoids those same supposed Hell determining heresies - there's something dreadfully wrong with that picture.

His student said:

... when the majority (confessed Trinitarians like in this forum) condemn those who don't believe in the Trinity to Hell for teaching heresy and then can't present the Trinity in a way that avoids those same supposed Hell determining heresies - there's something dreadfully wrong with that picture.

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So, why do you believe in the Trinity?

SPF said:

I couldn't help but notice that a certain poster in the recently closed thread concerning OSAS, made this comment that nobody else seemed to notice:

"Technically, Jesus was not God ... not in the same league as Father God
because He was part human ... Jesus was the God-man.
That's why jesus said His Father was greater than He was!"

What do you think of this quote? Is it accurate? Is it heresy?

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I'm all about transparency. The quote was in the thread:

"10 different NT warning-types against eternal security"

The post is #21 and here's the link so we can check out the context

Isolated the quote is heresy, but in context I think it was just a poor choice of words.

SPF said:

How do you compare the seven Spirits to all the passages about The Holy Spirit?

How do you incorporate the seven spirits of God which are barely referenced in the Bible in relation to the Holy Spirit, which is literally God.

I'll help you - whatever the seven spirits of God are, they are not God the Father, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. They are not God.

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You have just muddied the waters. Your own Bible says there are seven. Deal with it.

BCsenior said:

So, why do you believe in the Trinity?

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I'm not going to write an article or a book about it. There are plenty of them out there.

I was raised a Trinitarian and have taught for decades (what I consider to be) excellent classes on what that means and doesn't mean exactly - complete with warnings concerning counter beliefs to avoid and why.

I have come to believe that one particular non-Trinitarian belief system ("Onesness" theology), when properly represented and not misrepresented, has enough validity that it should not be considered heresy since it avoids the many pitfalls of out and out so called modalism and Arienism.

I am not prepared to throw my lot in with the Oneness view and reject the Trinitarian view - but after considering it thoroughly I do consider it's basic tenets to be biblically credible and valid.

Very few Trinitarians I have encounter, in this Forum and in my Christian life in general understand the Trinity doctrine correctly even though they would probably condemn all non Trinity types to Hell out of hand.

SPF said:

I'm still waiting for you to speak clearly and actually say what you mean. The Bible says there are seven what? Seven different Holy Spirits that are actually God? The Bible says what? That God is one in essence and 9 in person?

We are told to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - why doesn't it mention the other spirits you're referencing? When Jesus was baptized we have a picture of the Trinity - why doesn't it mention the other spirit's your referencing?

You haven't presented any sort of clear idea of the spirits and what you believe about them and the nature of their existence.

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I have presented what LITTLE information the Bible has on the subject, and I believe I did write clearly. If you need more, pray about it, and stop goading me.

His student said:

I'm not going to write an article or a book about it (the Trinity). There are plenty of them out there.
I have come to believe that one particular non-Trinitarian belief system ("Onesness" theology),
when properly represented and not misrepresented, has enough validity that
it should not be considered heresy.

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I asked you why you believe in the Trinity, and got no answer!
I believe in the Trinity because it is absolutely clearly taught in the NT.
Now, that wasn't too difficult, was it?

I presented my views recently on the Oneness Pentecostal forum.
They refuse to believe, accept, etc. in John 1:1-14.

Kinda like pre-tribbers refusing to believe Matthew 24.

BCsenior said:

I believe in the Trinity because it is absolutely clearly taught in the NT.
Now, that wasn't too difficult, was it?

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No - but you weren't asked why you believe in the Trinity.

My answer, unless you just want to be argumentative, was clearly that my reasons would be as found in the various articles and books available in stores and online.

I'm not going to rewrite them for you to save you time and labor - and I'm not going to cut and paste a bunch of scripture proof texts in a long drawn out post for you.

You have proven yourself to me and to many others in this forum to be one who stirs up the brethren and behaves like a fool.

I don't want to waste further time on one who may indeed be a fool.

SPF said:

I couldn't help but notice that a certain poster in the recently closed thread concerning OSAS, made this comment that nobody else seemed to notice:

"Technically, Jesus was not God ... not in the same league as Father God
because He was part human ... Jesus was the God-man.
That's why jesus said His Father was greater than He was!"

What do you think of this quote? Is it accurate? Is it heresy?

Click to expand...

This quote is very much heresy on several levels.

Jesus is FULLY God and FULLY (not just part) human.