A scriptural question...

setst777 said:

No more prophets giving new revelation from God...

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Hi setst777 ...

For matters of discussion, ... what is your scriptural basis for this position ?

A_Thinker said:

Hi setst777 ...

For matters of discussion, ... what is your scriptural basis for this position ?

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I can give you that. Proverbs 39:5-6:
"Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."

Oscarr said:

I can give you that. Proverbs 39:5-6:
"Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."

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Still in discussion mode ...

"This text doesn't seem to say to me ... that God will send no new prophets bearing new revelation.

Emmylouwho said:

... or why are we even here right now?

If the Bible is the true word of God, why do have centuries of commentaries and debates about what it actually MEANS?

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Scripture was not written by one person so there are several literary styles to take into consideration. Also, all of the OT was written to the Jews and much of the language is apocalyptic and Hebraic idioms are often used, which is not easily understood in Western Civilization. Another problem is many teachers are futurist and conflate what has already been fulfilled as not fulfilled at all. But most of the problems lie with the traditions of men that have imposed "additional things" on scripture. That to me is the most egregious way of handling the word of God. Solution? Strip away all of what you hear and read it for yourself with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. He will teach you the truth. Then you can go back and discern for yourself who has the correct interpretation.
Blessings

The problem is for the outsider that on the outset it requires faith. To believe claims that may sound horrendous to the skeptic. For example you're a sinner and need to repent to escape judgement and he gave you the sacrifice of his son Jesus to be able to do so. In the bible it says that mankind in their natrual state cannot understand the things of God:
1Cor 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

And this is the thing that atheists and agnostics cannot comprehend and ask the question:Why?
It's because we have been touched by the divine, the one and only true God and that's why many people die believing it and many do live fulfilling,not necessarily easy, lives. It shows that us whom believe it are also one of the evidences that it is true. Even from a moral standpoint it teaches very good morals and ethics contained in the commandments of the law and not to be confused with the old Testament civil law and ceremonial law. This is the reason Western civilization has done so well until some decided the did not need God anymore and started decenting into chaos and that's why we are seeing a resurgence of conservative values since the craziness of letting go of God's moral order is destroying western society is evident.

Is the bible unreasonable then? Certainly not. Since no.1 it teaches that mankind is made in the image of God and so doing giving them intrinsic value that no one can take away. No.2 mankind is accountable to God for what he does , is not unsympathetic toward our inclination to sin that's why he sent His son Jesus as a sacrifice to take it away if we turn from rebellion against him and ask for forgiveness although He does sometimes chastise man to see the error of their ways. Denying this will have the grave consequences of eternal damnation.Even human government is based on these principles of mercy,forgiveness,chastisement and judgement so that we can have a peaceful and orderly society.

Whether you believe it or not is your choice ,but these evidences are clear.

Emmylouwho said:

... or why are we even here right now?

If the Bible is the true word of God, why do have centuries of commentaries and debates about what it actually MEANS?

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Because it was written in another language, so we need translators, at the very least. Translation from one language to another is never easy; there may not be equivalent words in that language to convey the original. The NT was translated from Greek into Latin, and Latin into English - there are also Aramaic words and phrases in the documents as Jesus, most likely, spoke Aramaic.

There are many types of writing in the Bible; narrative, poetry, prophecy, parables, wisdom literature, apocalyptic writings and so on.
When Jesus told his parables he often used things that people around him were familiar with - lost sheep, women losing coins, workers in vineyards etc - and also spoke of local events and customs. We don't necessarily know about, or are familiar with, those things today. Paul also wrote his letters to churches facing particular problems, in particular cultures. He also wrote to counter some of the false teachings that were around at the time. Again, we don't necessarily have the same issues today.

Apart from this, there are big differences in how people approach Scripture today - some seem to insist that, as the word of God - every word is literally true and has to be literally applied. Whereas those who heard Jesus and read Paul's letters would have know whether or not this was the case; those listening to Jesus, for example, heard his tone of voice, could see his facial expressions and could even have asked him privately about the teaching, if they had wanted to.

Emmylouwho said:

...If the Bible is the true word of God, why do have centuries of commentaries and debates about what it actually MEANS?

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I think the reason is that some don’t want to remain in truth, they love more their own ideas than God’s word.

A_Thinker said:

Still in discussion mode ...

"This text doesn't seem to say to me ... that God will send no new prophets bearing new revelation.

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All the prophets in the Old Testament who spoke gave their prophecies in strict accordance with the terms of the Law and what God had already spoken to the Israelites. John the Baptizer was the last Old Testament prophet. When Jesus arrived on the scene, that prophetic function ceased.

When the canon of Scripture closed with the last New Testament book written, there is to be no more new revelation. The Bible is the total and complete word of God to mankind. Anything added to it is man's invention, dreamed up out of his own head.

Maria Billingsley said:

Scripture was not written by one person so there are several literary styles to take into consideration. Also, all of the OT was written to the Jews and much of the language is apocalyptic and Hebraic idioms are often used, which is not easily understood in Western Civilization. Another problem is many teachers are futurist and conflate what has already been fulfilled as not fulfilled at all. But most of the problems lie with the traditions of men that have imposed "additional things" on scripture. That to me is the most egregious way of handling the word of God. Solution? Strip away all of what you hear and read it for yourself with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. He will teach you the truth. Then you can go back and discern for yourself who has the correct interpretation.
Blessings

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It is not that people can't understand what the Bible is saying about God's ways and standards, and how to enter into His plan of salvation in Christ. It is because they won't believe what it is saying. They want to exclude God from their beliefs because they are breaking His holy Law and therefore are in rebellion against Him. It is only the grace and mercy of God that is able to break the rebellion and stubborn self-will for a person to see the light of the gospel of Christ and be able to believe it.

Emmylouwho said:

... or why are we even here right now?

If the Bible is the true word of God, why do have centuries of commentaries and debates about what it actually MEANS?

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Because men are after their own hearts and not God's.

Jonaitis said:

On the contrary, it proves that the Scriptures IS the word of God. If the Scriptures were written by men, you wouldn't have all these different interpretations, denominations, and works written on it. How many denominations exist in Islam, Buddhism, or even Judaism? If the text were written by men, it would be easy to understand by men. I have always seen this as one of the best arguments that Christianity is the only true religion in the world, because people will not debate so hard for what is false, but what is clearly true. Satan has no time to waste with these other religions, he'd rather find reasons to divide churches. Where there is the most division, there is truth among them.

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Actually there is a lot of interpretations in Judaism and Islam

Emmylouwho said:

... or why are we even here right now?

If the Bible is the true word of God, why do have centuries of commentaries and debates about what it actually MEANS?

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There is little doubt what it means.

There is a three legged stool not one. Scripture. Tradition. Authority.

From the beginning the word was handed by "word of mouth and letter". And we see in the earliest fathers what that true faith was. For example the first generation taught by apostles stating that bishops were needed for a valid eucharist which was the flesh of Jesus. It describes a sacramental church with clergy and liturgy. That is tradition, the faith handed down. Which was the only mechanism for faith transmission early days. Jesus said "do this " and "teach this" he did not say write this. Not least because very few could read, and of those very few could afford scripture.

Jesus also handed the power for correct interpretation and resolution of disputes. Which is the meaning of the power to "bind and loose" given to peter individually and apostles together jointly handed on in succesion. The power of moses chair. That is the power weilded in council. Which is how the church has voided heresy. The bible itself says the "foundation of truth is the church" so identifies truth outside of itself.

The new testament was a long time in coming and chosen in part because it reinforced the faith handed down and taught by authority. It is only because of the church you even have a canon of scripture and can trust that it is true.

It is a 3 legged stool. Not one. With only one leg it falls over, not least because "sola scriptura" is disprovable in scripture, history and simple logic. Without tradition and authority endless disputes and schisms occur as all think their version is right. Which is why the protestant churches have proliferated

A_Thinker said:

Hi setst777 ...

For matters of discussion, ... what is your scriptural basis for this position ?

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Hi

The Scriptures I quoted are my Scriptural basis for this position.

No more revelation is to be added.
No more prophets giving new revelation from God.

Please honestly meditate on these Scriptures again. . .

Colossians 1:25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the Word of God in its fullness — 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people. 27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Colossians 2:2 My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Romans 15:17 Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God. 18 I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done — 19 by the power of signs and wonders, through the power of the Spirit of God. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.

All of the Gospel is in writing by the command of the eternal God

Romans 16:25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith — 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

Ephesians 3:4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now (at that time), through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence. 13 I ask you, therefore, not to be discouraged because of my sufferings for you, which are your glory.

1 Peter 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

Galatians 1:11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

The Apostle Jude writes as follows:

Jude 1:3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for (struggle to uphold) the faith that was once for all entrusted to God's holy people.

As I meditate on these Passages, I am led to one conclusion: That God's Word, and the Gospel itself, the mystery hidden for long ages past, is now completely revealed by the command of the eternal God through the Holy Scriptures that were entrusted by God to the Church - at that time - so that all nations may have complete understanding, believe, obey and be saved. And we are told to contend (intense struggle) for this Faith once for all entrusted to the Saints for the Scriptures they had at that time.

Therefore, there is no more deeper revelation. While commentaries are helpful to understand historical context and word usage, the Word of God cannot be added to or changed to suite any man's prideful imaginations and illusions of grandeur.

Blessings
setst

Emmylouwho said:

Does it say somewhere in the Bible that God is not the author of confusion? Or is that just Christian folklore?

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Seems like if you're going to attack the Bible you should read it all first... Then you would know what's in it.

setst777 said:

As I meditate on these Passages, I am led to one conclusion: That God's Word, and the Gospel itself, the mystery hidden for long ages past, is now completely revealed by the command of the eternal God through the Holy Scriptures that were entrusted by God to the Church - at that time - so that all nations may have complete understanding, believe, obey and be saved. And we are told to contend (intense struggle) for this Faith once for all entrusted to the Saints for the Scriptures they had at that time.

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OK ... I get that you conclude that the fullness of God's gospel revelation has been revealed ... and with that I would agree.

With that in mind, then, ... how would you categorize Revelation, one of the last of the canonized writings ? John had his vision on the isle of Patmos almost a lifetime after Christ's sacrifice ...

A_Thinker said:

OK ... I get that you conclude that the fullness of God's gospel revelation has been revealed ... and with that I would agree.

With that in mind, then, ... how would you categorize Revelation, one of the last of the canonized writings ? John had his vision on the isle of Patmos almost a lifetime after Christ's sacrifice ...

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Hi

Thank you for your questions.

In answer...

Firstly
We must understand that the Prophets and Apostles, through whom the Scriptures came, are the foundation of our faith, with Christ Jesus being the Chief Cornerstone.

Ephesians 2:19-22 (NIV)
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Secondly
John is one of the twelve Apostles - through whom Christ Jesus founded His Church.

Historical and internal evidence proves to me beyond reasonable doubt that the Apostle John is the author of the Book of Revelation.

The internal evidence of the authorship is found in four passages in the Book of Revelation. It is in these four passages that the author refers to himself as "John".

Rev 1:1 This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants the things that must happen soon. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
Rev 1:4 From John to the seven churches in Asia.......
Rev 1:9 "I, John, both your brother and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."
Rev 22:8 "Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things."

With mention of this single name as John, with no attempt to clarify any further on it, indicates that he was well-known to his first readers, to whom no further identification was necessary. This conclusion is supported by most ancient historians.

Revelation has long been attributed to the author of John's Gospel, in spite of the differences in style of writing. The reason for this difference in style are most likely attributed to John's companions, who edited the finished work of John for grammar and style. Many writers at that time, and even today, used editors called "scribes" to write as dictated, and/or to edit the author's work. This was certainly true of the Apostle Peter as well.

Prior to the third century, there was no dispute of apostolic authorship. History and Tradition tells us that the Apostle John was not martyred, as were the other Apostles; rather, he lived to be an old age, and that he was banished to Patmos, and later lived in Ephesus until he died peacefully.
[Authorship of Revelation | Evidence Unseen]
[http://www.patmospapers.com/ndex/john.htm]

Conclusion

• When we recognize that the 12 Apostles were the foundation of the Church, and
• If we accept that the Apostle John authored the Book of Revelation,
• Then, we have every legitimate reason to accept the Book of Revelation as part of that foundation - the NT Gospel of Christ once for all delivered to the saints.

A_Thinker said:

Hi setst777 ...

For matters of discussion, ... what is your scriptural basis for this position ?

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I would submit Hebrews one...

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds,

In Him,

Bill

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Pro 25:2 Like the Pulprit commentary best for this Scripture. Believe we have to understand what the words mean in the original languages as much as possible. Then I have to rely on the English versions. We enjoy The Passion Translation.

Some Scriptures become clearer as time passes. "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves." Rev 11:9 I dont know how believers viewed this Scripture previously but we now know it is possible because of current technology.

Why are we here? Yahweh determines the time and place of our births:
-“And he made from one man every race of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted epochs and the fixed boundaries of the places where they would live;” (Acts 17:26)

He formed us:
-“For You formed my innermost parts; You knit me [together] in my mother’s womb” Psa 139:13
-“Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?” Mal 2;10

He gives us life each day:
-“This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.” (Psa 118:24)
-“The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.” Job 33:4
"I will put ligaments on you, place muscles on you, and cover you with skin. I will put breath in you, and you will live. Then you will know that I am Yahweh." Eze 37:6

He has a plan for each one:
"For I know the plans that I have for you, declares Yahweh. They are plans for peace and not disaster, plans to give you a future filled with hope.” Jer 29:11
-“And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, for those who are called according to his purpose,” Rom 8:28

How important is the Bible?
Jesus said "...It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matt 4:4