How do I learn to think before speaking?

AMM · Sep 23, 2019

Title is pretty self explanatory. I know silence is a big aspect of some Orthodox monastic writings, but I was wondering if anyone has some advice or a place they can recommend me to start working on this. I believe that I speak too much and too hastily, oftentimes hurting other people by my words which were spoken carelessly. Any Orthodox thoughts or advice?

ArmyMatt · Sep 23, 2019

prayer, and I dare say trial and error.

dzheremi · Sep 23, 2019

The sayings of St. Arsanios, our father among the Romans. "I have often regretted speaking; I have never regretted keeping silent."

The Psalms. "I will guard my ways, lest I sin with my tongue; I will restrain my mouth with a muzzle", etc.

Prayer, and then more prayer.

Greengardener · Sep 23, 2019

Practical advice: watch your caffeine intake and notice whether common over the counter medications cause to to put mouth into gear before brain. Doing all you can to guard your tongue along with watching what physical reactions you might be having to other factors (food, drink, medicines, energy level and even scents) may help you be extra cautious once you find the triggers. It's listed as one of the harder things to control, and for good reason.

Akita Suggagaki · Sep 23, 2019

The answer is simpler than you think. Remember Jesus in the garden? "Keep watch with me." We so overlook that as a practice for us. Of course the popular form these days is "mindfulness". As a practice of meditation it carries over into life. When someone pushes your button, you realize it and your inner response. But then you have a choice on the outer response. It is not an automatic reflex.

Be vigilant.

-Sasha- · Sep 23, 2019

So, I struggle with this too. Here are a couple of things that have helped me a bit:
-Wearing a prayer rope and using it when I'm in social situations especially with certain people whose peraonalities really clash with mine, to the point that I almost always say something that would be better left unsaid. If I'm praying while I'm listening to them talk, I'm a lot less likely to say things I don't need to, and hopefully when I do speak it's after a bit more reflection than usual.
-Active listening in general. Not just waiting for my turn to speak, but taking time to try to understand and consider what the other person is saying.
-Trying not to state my opinion on what someone is talking about, unless asked for it. (Especially with the people whose priorities are way different than my own.) My theory is that just because someone is sharing their thoughts, it doesn't mean they need to hear my critiques of them.

Mostly, it's just trying to make it so that talking isn't an automatic reflex, but a decision instead. I try to keep this in mind, but it's easy to slip back into reflex-mode. Usually I remember just after I say the dumb thing :sigh:

, but at least I can try not to make it any worse.

AMM · Sep 23, 2019

ArmyMatt said:
prayer, and I dare say trial and error.

dzheremi said:
The sayings of St. Arsanios, our father among the Romans. "I have often regretted speaking; I have never regretted keeping silent."

The Psalms. "I will guard my ways, lest I sin with my tongue; I will restrain my mouth with a muzzle", etc.

Prayer, and then more prayer.

Thanks, both of you. Are there any particular prayers that any of the prayer books have about this topic? Or is it more of an "ex corde" situation where I'm just gonna pray as my heart directs about this?

Greengardener said:
Practical advice: watch your caffeine intake and notice whether common over the counter medications cause to to put mouth into gear before brain. Doing all you can to guard your tongue along with watching what physical reactions you might be having to other factors (food, drink, medicines, energy level and even scents) may help you be extra cautious once you find the triggers. It's listed as one of the harder things to control, and for good reason.

Thanks, that is helpful. I don't drink much caffeine and generally eat pretty healthily, but I'll keep an eye on that and see if I notice any patterns.

Akita Suggagaki said:
The answer is simpler than you think. Remember Jesus in the garden? "Keep watch with me." We so overlook that as a practice for us. Of course the popular form these days is "mindfulness". As a practice of meditation it carries over into life. When someone pushes your button, you realize it and your inner response. But then you have a choice on the outer response. It is not an automatic reflex.

Be vigilant.

Thank you. In Orthodoxy we have the practice of the Jesus Prayer, but I don't do that much. Maybe I should work on that some more as a form of "mindfulness" (although I believe the two are different things)

-Sasha- said:
So, I struggle with this too. Here are a couple of things that have helped me a bit:
-Wearing a prayer rope and using it when I'm in social situations especially with certain people whose peraonalities really clash with mine, to the point that I almost always say something that would be better left unsaid. If I'm praying while I'm listening to them talk, I'm a lot less likely to say things I don't need to, and hopefully when I do speak it's after a bit more reflection than usual.
-Active listening in general. Not just waiting for my turn to speak, but taking time to try to understand and consider what the other person is saying.
-Trying not to state my opinion on what someone is talking about, unless asked for it. (Especially with the people whose priorities are way different than my own.) My theory is that just because someone is sharing their thoughts, it doesn't mean they need to hear my critiques of them.

Mostly, it's just trying to make it so that talking isn't an automatic reflex, but a decision instead. I try to keep this in mind, but it's easy to slip back into reflex-mode. Usually I remember just after I say the dumb thing , but at least I can try not to make it any worse.

That's helpful. I wear a prayer rope but usually it stays on my wrist, unfortunately. I should change that habit. And active listening is a good suggestion for sure. I think I oftentimes listen to respond instead of listen to understand...

and yeah, this question was prompted by a situation over the weekend where I said something dumb and immediately realized how bad that was. So I definitely relate to that last point.

ArmyMatt · Sep 23, 2019

AMM said:
Thanks, both of you. Are there any particular prayers that any of the prayer books have about this topic? Or is it more of an "ex corde" situation where I'm just gonna pray as my heart directs about this?

the Psalter and the Jesus prayer

Endeavourer · Sep 23, 2019

I've learned to be more pragmatic when receiving words from others and less emotional. This allows me to stay focused on the point/problem in the conversation. There is time later to decide about whether you should have an emotion about it, but in the moment just step out of your heart and learn with your head.

This pragmatism has really helped me keep emotions out of responses during tough times so that I can stay focused on resolving the problem that is inspiring the other person's emotion.

This capability has helped me earn a lot of commissions professionally...lol... and has given me a very useful tool in relating productively to people who are upset or in crisis.

AMM · Sep 23, 2019

ArmyMatt said:
the Psalter and the Jesus prayer

thanks Father

Endeavourer said:
I've learned to be more pragmatic when receiving words from others and less emotional. This allows me to stay focused on the point/problem in the conversation. There is time later to decide about whether you should have an emotion about it, but in the moment just step out of your heart and learn with your head.

This pragmatism has really helped me keep emotions out of responses during tough times so that I can stay focused on resolving the problem that is inspiring the other person's emotion.

This capability has helped me earn a lot of commissions professionally...lol... and has given me a very useful tool in relating productively to people who are upset or in crisis.

thank you for your advice

zippy2006 · Sep 23, 2019

AMM said:
Title is pretty self explanatory. I know silence is a big aspect of some Orthodox monastic writings, but I was wondering if anyone has some advice or a place they can recommend me to start working on this. I believe that I speak too much and too hastily, oftentimes hurting other people by my words which were spoken carelessly. Any Orthodox thoughts or advice?

I think that as long as you are engaging in give-and-take conversations and allowing others to speak while respecting their input and opinions, this should not be a problem. Some people speak more than others.

Also, prayer and fasting from words should help to purify your speech. Maybe say a quick prayer before entering into a conversation. The verse from the psalm is much-loved by the Fathers, "God, come to my assistance..."

Tolworth John · Sep 24, 2019

AMM said:
I believe that I speak too much and too hastily

All discipline is self discipline.

In the army you descide to obey the drill sargent and do what he wants.

So if you want to restrain yourself start by talking less, concentrate on your work.
Think about what has just been said, before making a smart alec comment and work on this.

JohnTh · Sep 24, 2019

dzheremi said:
"I have often regretted speaking; I have never regretted keeping silent."

St. Isaac the Syrian actually. But it doesn't matter too much.

On topic:
1. We must know how to manage our anger.
2. We must know that the „anger” is natural, so you cannot „escape” from it, but we can divert it (we can use it for good).
3. This distortion comes because our soul is ill. Here are two main paths to cure it. (Well, one can write entire books on the topic)
4. If you fail, have an analogous repentance in order to re-establish the equilibrium. If you upset someone, ask for forgiveness.
5. Pray for help and do not give up. - Ok, this should be Point 1) above.

It needs time for everyone from us.

peregrinus2017 · Sep 24, 2019

Not sure how practical this would be in your life, but here is a quote from the desert fathers:

They said of Agatho that for three years he kept a stone in his mouth in order to teach himself silence.

Lord have mercy.

dzheremi · Sep 24, 2019

JohnTh said:
St. Isaac the Syrian actually. But it doesn't matter too much.

I could've sworn I read that in Benedicta Ward's translation of the Sayings, but I just double checked and couldn't find it there, so thank you for the correction. My brain must've created that particular false attribution. Apologies to the OP and thread for the misinformation.

At any rate, St. Isaac is also good!

zippy2006 · Sep 24, 2019

JohnTh said:
St. Isaac the Syrian actually. But it doesn't matter too much.

On topic:
1. We must know how to manage our anger.
2. We must know that the „anger” is natural, so you cannot „escape” from it, but we can divert it (we can use it for good).
3. This distortion comes because our soul is ill. Here are two main paths to cure it. (Well, one can write entire books on the topic)
4. If you fail, have an analogous repentance in order to re-establish the equilibrium. If you upset someone, ask for forgiveness.
5. Pray for help and do not give up. - Ok, this should be Point 1) above.

It needs time for everyone from us.

Thanks for your post. It's tough because Christ was so strongly against anger, so I have a hard time giving myself license to be angry--at least with human beings. I will have to read your blogpost links here.

AMM · Sep 24, 2019

JohnTh said:
St. Isaac the Syrian actually. But it doesn't matter too much.

On topic:
1. We must know how to manage our anger.
2. We must know that the „anger” is natural, so you cannot „escape” from it, but we can divert it (we can use it for good).
3. This distortion comes because our soul is ill. Here are two main paths to cure it. (Well, one can write entire books on the topic)
4. If you fail, have an analogous repentance in order to re-establish the equilibrium. If you upset someone, ask for forgiveness.
5. Pray for help and do not give up. - Ok, this should be Point 1) above.

It needs time for everyone from us.

those are interesting points. I especially like the information in the first link.

And prayer for sure - that seems to be the common theme through all these posts.

AMM · Sep 27, 2019

peregrinus2017 said:
Not sure how practical this would be in your life, but here is a quote from the desert fathers:

They said of Agatho that for three years he kept a stone in his mouth in order to teach himself silence.

Lord have mercy.

I'm reading the life of St Nephon right now too, and came across a part where it says he did the same thing:

In spite of all this, the wicked and filthy spirit of obscenities fought him a lot. And he struggled to chase it away fervently beseeching God, until one night he saw Stephen, the first Martyr, in his dream. “Hail, Nephon, servant of God,” he said to him. “Your life is good, but you pollute it with filthy talk and swearing. For this reason I promise you that, if you struggle to conquer the wicked demon that incites you to swear, I will be your helper.” Nephon awakened with big decisions. After thanking St Stephen, he placed a small pebble in his mouth and left it there many days, so that he wouldn't swear.

How do I learn to think before speaking?

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