Christian "watchfulness" and Buddhist "Mindfulness"

What is mindfulness?

Mindfulness means maintaining a moment-by-moment awareness of our thoughts, feelings, bodily sensations, and surrounding environment, through a gentle, nurturing lens.

Mindfulness also involves acceptance, meaning that we pay attention to our thoughts and feelings without judging them—without believing, for instance, that there’s a “right” or “wrong” way to think or feel in a given moment.

When we practice mindfulness, our thoughts tune into what we’re sensing in the present moment rather than rehashing the past or imagining the future.

Akita Suggagaki said:

If we do a Bible word search with words like “watch”, “Wait” and “listen” we find many citations. When Jesus says, “keep watch” What does it mean for us? A lifestyle of attention and alertness? Isn’t that essentially what "Mindfulness"is? But we pretty much pass over this instruction with a “ya, ya”. We take it for granted and dont practice it.

When Jesus in in Gethsemani and he tells his disciples to keep watch with him, I think it can be applied as a call to meditation for us.

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"Mindfulness" (sati) in the early Buddhist writings refer to the process of alertness regarding our present situation combined with the ability to recall from memory the appropriate wisdom from past experiences that addresses the present situation which leads us towards greater skillfulness. That form of "mindfulness" does not refer to a passive, non-judgmental attention that seems to be gaining in popularity today.

I don't know if it is equivalent to "watchfulness" in the Bible.

To "not lean on your own understanding but trust in God" starts to free us and opens our ears to the spiritual world. Don't think and you shall see the contact we have with Heaven and Hell and all the beings in between.

Mindfulness might be useful in helping us to not be so hijacked by certain kinds of processes that we enforce too much in ourselves. Tunnel vision can be fun until you start bouncing to and fro on the sides of the tunnel uncontrollably.

Akita Suggagaki said:

If we do a Bible word search with words like “watch”, “Wait” and “listen” we find many citations. When Jesus says, “keep watch” What does it mean for us? A lifestyle of attention and alertness? Isn’t that essentially what "Mindfulness"is? But we pretty much pass over this instruction with a “ya, ya”. We take it for granted and dont practice it.

When Jesus in in Gethsemani and he tells his disciples to keep watch with him, I think it can be applied as a call to meditation for us.

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There may be some similarities, but there are also real differences in religious culture. Buddhists are not attempting to unite with God or anything like that. Just being aware with a natural, nonjudgmental, accepting mind in a state of shamatha (calm abiding). In that state there is a profound freedom and expansiveness, regardless of external circumstances.

"I send my heart out with the sound of this bell.
May the listeners awaken from forgetfulness, and transcend all suffering and sorrow.
Listen... the sound of this bell calls me to my true home".

(The bell gatha that was said before meditation when I studied years ago with a student of Thich Nhat Hanh.)

Akita Suggagaki said:

If we do a Bible word search with words like “watch”, “Wait” and “listen” we find many citations. When Jesus says, “keep watch” What does it mean for us? A lifestyle of attention and alertness? Isn’t that essentially what "Mindfulness"is? But we pretty much pass over this instruction with a “ya, ya”. We take it for granted and dont practice it.

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I think there is alot of resonance with the traditional Catholic emphasis on the spiritual aspects of manual work in monasteries, and mindfulness. That was evident when I watched some interviews with Br. David Stendahl-Rast talking about washing dishes and doing chores in the monastery.

Akita Suggagaki said:

I was thinking more in terms of how sometimes Popeyes can push our buttons and we react in reflex, perhaps with anger. Both mindfulness and vigilance help us to notice the process "my button was pushed", "I feel anger arising." And instead of responding our of reflex and perhaps regretting it, we now hove a choice.

At least that has been my experience. It has been a blessing to catch myself in the process and choose more loving responses.

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I understand that. sometimes anger is not appropriate. But sometimes anger happens for a reason. you have probably heard of all those businesses that want their people to get into mindfulness because it makes them more productive. But really now what's the difference in meditating all your problems away and taking a bunch of pills to make you comply and be obedient?

There are a lot of "maybes" in the world and hopefully we will have a decent answer in response.

Meditation is very passive. Passivity is not always the answer. I guess you must also have "skillfulness".

Noxot said:

I understand that. sometimes anger is not appropriate. But sometimes anger happens for a reason. you have probably heard of all those businesses that want their people to get into mindfulness because it makes them more productive. But really now what's the difference in meditating all your problems away and taking a bunch of pills to make you comply and be obedient?

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There is alot of difference.

Meditation does not make me docile, it makes me more aware- drugs do not do this. If anything, when I started meditating again, I realized I needed to make changes in my life, and I found the energy and will to do so.

Meditation is very passive. Passivity is not always the answer. I guess you must also have "skillfulness".

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Passivity doesn't exactly make the world a worse place. And given that western civilization has been built upon an unreflective attitude towards Being, and has often been so destructive to Mother Earth, I think we could all benefit from being more "passive", or rather, receptive, and learn to appreciate the miracle of just being.

I think some businesspeople are interested in mindfulness because it can lead to more creativity and innovative problem solving, as well as increasing the wellbeing of themselves and their employees. Not necessarily because they imagine it will produce compliant workers.

Some of the most creative and intelligent people in our societies either have practiced meditation or used psychedelic drugs to increase their divergent thinking. The award-winning Israeli historian, Yuval Harari, meditates for two hours a day and goes on a 60 day retreat once a year. Steve Jobs was a well-known practitioner of Zen, and also said taking LSD was one of the most profound experiences in his life. And so on.

FireDragon76 said:

Passivity doesn't exactly make the world a worse place. And given that western civilization has been built upon an unreflective attitude towards Being, and

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True, there are pros and cons to most things. You are preaching to the choir. I get sick when I see humans tearing down stadiums or other expensive structures in order to build them bigger. don't they know that they can get so much more use out of them?

Laziness as a virtue is underrated. But if the system magically collapsed there would be a lot of death and suffering. We are closer to the horrors of nature than we realize. but putting excess heavy metals in the water and in the fish are not going to help to make alternative lifestyles.

Human success could lead to slavery and weakness. I guess the great hope is that we will make it over the hump without destroying everything. I already don't like cities because it means more crime. 20 billion people are not going to make things more peaceful.

religious people have a genuine concern over people utilizing meditation for things less than Enlightenment or Union with God.

It really just depends on the person. Genius is a great path that a human can take. Geniuses have largely made the world what it is. But they also made the nuclear bomb.

Yuck, a double post. Yay for phone lag.

Noxot said:

religious people have a genuine concern over people utilizing meditation for things less than Enlightenment or Union with God.

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You may be correct when it comes to religious people. But with meditation I think the box is way more opened up with possibilities when it comes to spiritual minded people.

I'm sharing this article by James Finley, "who has been a student of contemplative prayer for more than 20 years, six of which he spent at the Abbey of Gethsemani in Kentucky, where he studied with Thomas Merton."

Experiencing_God_Through_Meditation
Former Trappist monk James Finley talks about the spiritual benefits of contemplative practice for Christians.

Noxot said:

religious people have a genuine concern over people utilizing meditation for things less than Enlightenment or Union with God.

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I can't speak for Union with God, since I no longer believe in a personal Abrahamic God (like Feuerbach, I simply believe God is a projection of humanity), but I don't see how meditation could be "misused" in that manner. That is a dualistic mindset that in itself doesn't show understanding or insight.

FireDragon76 said:

I can't speak for Union with God, since I no longer believe in a personal Abrahamic God (like Feuerbach, I simply believe God is a projection of humanity), but I don't see how meditation could be "misused" in that manner. That is a dualistic mindset that in itself doesn't show understanding or insight.

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There are spiritual trajectories other than the various Abrahamic images of God that speak of a Union with God.

FireDragon76 said:

I can't speak for Union with God, since I no longer believe in a personal Abrahamic God (like Feuerbach, I simply believe God is a projection of humanity), but I don't see how meditation could be "misused" in that manner. That is a dualistic mindset that in itself doesn't show understanding or insight.

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I think being is important and intent is a big part of what being is.

Noxot said:

I think being is important and intent is a big part of what being is.

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If Union with God is what your responding to, I think it's just the opposite. Intent implies ego. The mystics instruct that for Union with God a person must go past ego.